2013 - AAG 40 League

[Jennifer]

12 completed games.  At least 6 different players need to be involved in those 12 games.

Yes, the 12 games need to be COMPLETED and reported as complete before you can go best 3 of 5 games with an individual player or individual players.

[gamerman01]

That doesn’t help.  In fact, that makes it more confusing.  I was sure you said MORE than 12 games before, and now you’re saying 12.  Also, when you say “at least 6 different players need to be involved” I now know that you MIGHT be counting the player himself.

So you have to play against at least 5 other opponents?
It is impossible to play more than 12 games against only 4 opponents at best of 3 (3X4=12), so if you need to play 12 (13?) games, then the requirement of at least 5 opponents is needless confusion.

PLEASE

CLARIFY

[Jennifer]

ya know what, I’ll just quote it from page 17 again:

@Cmdr:

Here’s the revised ruling:

• If both opponents have more than 12 completed games with at least 6 other players, then they may engage in another game.  If this should make it so each player has the same number of wins against the other (2 and 2) then a 5th tie breaker game may be played. 
  Considering the limit is currently 2 games with any specific pair of opponents with a 3rd game possible in the case of a tie, then having 6 unique opponents should not be hard to accomplish, if you have 12 games.

[seth4god]

Ok, but you do see how that’s different than what you said right?

more than 12 completed games does not equal 12 completed games. And 6 OTHER players does not equal 6 players.

So what you said back in March is what counts yes?

[seth4god]

@seththenewb:

Ok, but you do see how that’s different than what you said right?

more than 12 completed games does not equal 12 completed games. And 6 OTHER players does not equal 6 players.

So what you said back in March is what counts yes?

Err, May

[Amon-Sul]

Have we reached the final verdict  8-)

[Jennifer]

Yes.  The hazards of using multiple computers in multiple states and trying to answer questions on the fly. :P

The quote from page 17 takes precedence.

[arathorn]

@Cmdr:

Yes.  The hazards of using multiple computers in multiple states and trying to answer questions on the fly. :P

The quote from page 17 takes precedence.

So the summary:

A minimum of 13 games must have been COMPLETED.

There must be a minimum of 6 different opponents among those 13 games.

There, conclusion given ;)

[gamerman01]

Thanks for digging that up and clarifying, Jenn

So I guess I have it correct in my spreadsheet (note at the bottom) all along…

Move along… nothing to see, here…

[Jennifer]

Sometimes I wish I still had mod powers in the league forum, sometimes I see it as a blessing in disguise not to have them!

Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don’t.  Destroyer captains are nuts, Aircraft Carrier captains are not!

[gamerman01]

ATTENTION

Seththenewbie found a very significant problem with Triple A that I have added to my list as item D at the bottom (I deleted one I had previously, so it still only goes to D and not E)

WHEN YOU GET SECOND, THIRD, FOURTH, OR FIFTH breakthrough on the same chart, and Triple A rolls to see what new tech you get, Triple A does NOT re-roll if it rolls one you already have.  It just gives you the next one on the list.

FOR EXAMPLE:

You have Super subs, Shipyards, Jets, and Radar already, with the USA.
Hallelujah, you get another breakthrough.
You should have a 50/50 shot at getting LRA or Heavy bombers.
But you don’t with Triple A, because when it rolls for your tech, it will give you LRA if you roll a 1,2,3,4 or 5.  You will only get heavy bombers if it rolls a 6.
Even if you only have 1 tech, it messes with your odds.
You have Improved mechanized infantry, and you get another land and production breakthrough.
Your chances are:
Improved artillery - 2/6 (1/3)
Rockets - 1/6
Paratroopers - 1/6
Increased production - 1/6
Bonds - 1/6

It should be 1/5 chance for each one you don’t have.

Solution:
Once you have a tech and you want to roll for that chart again, you should roll tech on the forum (I recommend rolling all tech dice on the forum - not just the 2nd die that determines which one you get, because once you roll a 6, Triple A automatically rolls the breakthrough die)
Jennifer has also decreed this, on a separate, non-league thread.  (No doubt she was going to add it to this or the rules thread)

See attached.

Triple A problems.doc

[gamerman01]

While we’re talking about this, I highly recommend that every league player familiarizes themselves with the Word document list I attached to the previous post.

There are several game play issues identified, and familiarizing yourself with the list could prevent unnecessary conflict with another league player, or even improve your game play/chances of winning.

There are multiple issues with tech and how Triple A (incorrectly) applies the rules.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask me

[seth4god]

To add to this Gamer, I did find some instances where it would roll to see which tech you get and it’d roll a tech that you didn’t have . . . but it went ahead and gave you another one anyway. Sometimes it actually gives you the tech you don’t have yet and sometimes it doesn’t. It looks like it’s an issue with the formula to check to see if you have a tech or not.

From my testing, which was by no means exhaustive but worth maybe an hour or so of playing around with it, I found some basic rules that seem to hold true. If power gets tech, roll for tech, check to see if country already has it. Good so far, but it’ll check each tech down the list one at a time. As soon as it runs into any tech that you already have before getting to the number you rolled then it thinks that you have the tech that you rolled for.

For example, you roll a 4 for radar in chart 2 and you already have improved shipyards. As soon as triplea sees that you have improved shipyards or number 3 on the list, it thinks you already have radar and goes ahead and gives you the next one in the list. But say you have improved shipyards (still 3rd on the list) but you instead roll a 2. It will reach that number without seeing that you have any tech, it’ll stop checking right then and give you the correct tech.

So you can see it really messes with the odds and chances of getting certain tech in certain circumstances.

[gamerman01]

So “manually” rolling for tech when you already have one is the solution?  (Or, of course, just getting in the habit of rolling all tech rolls on the forum with the aaa command)

[Jennifer]

For now the solution is as follows:

All technology rolls are to be done using the house dice server.

this applies to rolls for your first to your eleventh technology break through.  (twelfth technology being the last one available.)

[seth4god]

Which rolls do you want us to roll manually? So far I haven’t seen an issue with rolling for tech. It’s rolling to see WHICH tech you get is where the problem crops up. I could understand saying to roll everything manually if there’s a question about it. I just want to make sure what we’re actually rolling for is well understood by everyone in the community.

Also, the two breakthrough charts are treated separately. So the last tech in each would be the one that doesn’t get rolled for, not just the 12th one.

[gamerman01]

Seth, it does make sense to roll ALL tech dice manually.  It’s the most simple and elegant solution.
The issue is that Triple A automatically rolls the selection die roll immediately and awards you a tech.
I’d rather not have to explain to someone who’s unaware, that we need to re-roll the tech dice that gave me crappy improved mech and my re-roll gives me paratroopers.  Much cleaner to roll ALL tech dice on the forum so I never get awarded the wrong tech in the first place.
Like I said, you only NEED to roll it manually after you’ve already got a tech, but it is simpler to roll ALL tech dice on the server (even for the 6th or 12th breakthroughs) to keep it consistent and simplest.

[seth4god]

Yeah, I have no issue really either way. I could see a huge benefit in rolling everything manually to avoid confusion like you stated. I just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page.  :-D

[gamerman01]

Jenn, and everyone,

Apparently the Triple A tech problem was a false alarm.
Veqryn says the engine is rolling a 5 sided die when you have 1 tech already, a 4 sided die when you have 2, etc. so each remaining tech has equal likelihood.

If this is the case (I will test it myself now), then there is no need to roll tech manually.

[gamerman01]

Seems good.

I gave Germany the first 4 chart 2 techs.  When I got a breakthrough, Triple A rolled a “2” and awarded heavy bombers.  A “1” would have been LRA.

This time Triple A didn’t deserve your derision, Jenn.  False alarm.