2013 - AAG 40 League

[Jennifer]

@Cow:

Why would anyone get an armor for China? AA gun on yunnan round 1 is so much better. Hell that battle often fails for Japan to begin with, slap an AA gun on it.

Precisely my point.  I think the AA Gun bid for China is worth so much more than the IPC value of the gun and would cause so much distress for Japan (potentially) that I’d rather not permit it as a valid bid unit.

Imagine the worst case scenario:

• 3 Hits with the AA Gun
• Japan’s odds go way down to take the territory, let’s say they don’t take it (plausible with 3 less aircraft!)
• China gets to build Artillery with their starting money - if they so choose
  (I’d say the national objective, but they usually get it anyway unless Japan does significantly well.)

That unit, by itself, could change the entire outcome of the game if you apply the Butterfly Effect.  An infantry, an armor, heck another fighter for China does not have nearly the same potential, that I can see.

[Cow]

I tell you what. Next time I am China I’ll start the game with some infantry on yunnan and see how Japan does.

[Jennifer]

@Cow:

I tell you what. Next time I am China I’ll start the game with some infantry on yunnan and see how Japan does.

I’ll be glad to play you after I kill off Arathorn. =^_^=  You can have whatever you want from your bid there (of the units listed above.)  You can demonstrate right too me. Sound good?  (yes, I always think I am going to win, even if the enemy has 500 tanks at the border of the last VC they need and all I have is 1 infantry guy to hold them off!  No matter how improbable, the odds still exist that the one guy there will beat the 500 tanks!)

[Major Major]

Hey,

Could someone in the know make us a current list of tripleA glitches that conflict with the 2nd edition rules?

Like the sub issue, aa against mutliple targets, etc?

That would super rock!

[gamerman01]

Putting it together right now.  I’ll upload the Word file here when I’m done.
Sorting my outbox for messages to Veqryn, I can pretty much go through them and find all the issues I’ve complained about, few of which have been corrected  :x

[boldfresh]

@Gamerman01:

Putting it together right now.  I’ll upload the Word file here when I’m done.
Sorting my outbox for messages to Veqryn, I can pretty much go through them and find all the issues I’ve complained about, few of which have been corrected  :x

have any been corrected?

[gamerman01]

Here’s the list and I probably left something out, believe it or not.
I have raised all of these issues with Veqryn in the past 5 months.  He says all of them are considered and/or on his to do list, but no promises on how soon he’ll get to some of them, and we do not agree about the level of importance of some of these issues.

Triple A problems.doc

[Jennifer]

In response to D:  yes, but it’s not game breaking the way it does it.  So I’m good with altering my mindset to make it work.  Remember, I prefer Abattlemap to tripleA, I feel it’s cleaner, faster and has NONE of these problems you listed!  Not a single problem in your list exists in Battlemap!

Same goes for 1).  As long as your sea battles happen before your Amphibious assaults, you should be okay.  Odds are your SBRs are in different territories, and since all combat is considered simultanious anyway, eh…yes technically you should go in order, but I don’t think I’ve ever made my opponents follow any order other than sea battles before amphibious assaults.

As for 4) that might be a coding thing used to make sure that submarine hits are limited to naval units and not applied incorrectly to air units.  Just a thought.  Not saying it’s true, but it’s a thought.

I totally agree with 7!  If you screw up and buy 11 infantry and only have the ability to place 10, get your 3 IPC back!  It’s the rules and there’s no fudge factor like with combat being slightly out of order.

Unless 1.7 fixes this, the Himalayas are still a legal zone for China to move into per TripleA but it’s a no trespassing zone for any reason according to the real rules.  My big pet peeve.  I think crossing the Sahara was fixed (allows units to go through the Sahara if certain neutrals were invaded.)

[gamerman01]

Oh, crap, there’s more!  Just found this out in my game with Infrastructure - had to reload and play as him to see exactly how the engine handled this.

It royally messed up Rocket attacks (the sound effect is awesome - the rules application - not so much)
See #2 through #4

Triple A problems.doc

[Jennifer]

@Gamerman01:

Oh, crap, there’s more!  Just found this out in my game with Infrastructure - had to reload and play as him to see exactly how the engine handled this.

It royally messed up Rocket attacks (the sound effect is awesome - the rules application - not so much)
See #2 through #4

This is what happens when you put your life in the hands of a robot.  As I said, absolutely NONE of these problems happen in Battlemap!  There are no pretty sound effects, but you could play the wave files yourself if you really wanted too, and the graphics arnt as good, but Battlemap is so simple, I can use it on a smartphone!  (Yes, that means even the crapple can run it, I believe.  Course, I wouldn’t trust a crapple if my life depended on it, hell, specially if my life depended on it!)

[gamerman01]

I know, Jenn, I was one of the last bastions of ABattlemap myself and endured some teasing because of it.

However, there are major drawbacks to Battlemap, most notably:

1. If you want to be sure your opponent isn’t doing something illegally, you have to check every move he makes, and compare maps.
2. It is much faster and easier to make a move on Triple A, mainly because the dice rolling is much faster.  Also, you don’t have to verify that your opponent rolled the dice correctly.
3. To see history, you have to pull up a previous map and look at it.  In Triple A, you can rapidly look through a game at any point you want with a click.  It’s like comparing movies to snap shots.

And my personal preference item
A) In battlemap, the territory color remains the same - for example, France is always blue and East Poland is always red.  It looks MUCH better when the color changes with the owner, and it is much easier to see who owns what in Triple A.

HOWEVER
Battlemap gets the nod, big time, when it comes to seeing units in territories, because sometimes units are completely hidden from view (like Z92 when there is a lot of stuff in Gibraltar) but in Battlemap you can put your units exactly where you want them, all the time!

ALSO
You can’t tell ANZ boats apart from USA boats in Triple A unless you go to territory tab and hover over the zone, and sometimes you have to go scroll down through the list of units.  No such problem in battlemap.

[boldfresh]

@Gamerman01:

I know, Jenn, I was one of the last bastions of ABattlemap myself and endured some teasing because of it.

However, there are major drawbacks to Battlemap, most notably:

1. If you want to be sure your opponent isn’t doing something illegally, you have to check every move he makes, and compare maps.
2. It is much faster and easier to make a move on Triple A, mainly because the dice rolling is much faster.  Also, you don’t have to verify that your opponent rolled the dice correctly.
3. To see history, you have to pull up a previous map and look at it.  In Triple A, you can rapidly look through a game at any point you want with a click.  It’s like comparing movies to snap shots.

And my personal preference item
A) In battlemap, the territory color remains the same - for example, France is always blue and East Poland is always red.  It looks MUCH better when the color changes with the owner, and it is much easier to see who owns what in Triple A.

HOWEVER
Battlemap gets the nod, big time, when it comes to seeing units in territories, because sometimes units are completely hidden from view (like Z92 when there is a lot of stuff in Gibraltar) but in Battlemap you can put your units exactly where you want them, all the time!

ALSO
You can’t tell ANZ boats apart from USA boats in Triple A unless you go to territory tab and hover over the zone, and sometimes you have to go scroll down through the list of units.  No such problem in battlemap.

Supposedly there is an option to change the color of each power.  Havent tried to find it.

[Jennifer]

Granted it’s easier to roll dice.  However, I object to the statement that it forces you to move correctly. lol.  No seriously!  I know of a few instances where it still lets you break the rules!  You’ve even pointed them out yourself in Veqyrns thread! Â

I am not sure if I like all the flair of TripleA either.  Too reminiscent of Hasbro’s failed debacle of both Axis and Allies and Iron Blitz, heck I’m sure some of the piece models came from there! Â

But yes, having the entire territory change color to the new owner is nice.  Not necessary since the control marker updated the income in Battlemap.

And for that matter, finding the menus of what you wanted is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier in battlemap!  Want to know everyone’s income at a glance?  Cash on hand chart.  Want to know overall situation of the board?  Statistics chart.  Can’t remember exactly what you need to get an objective?  OBJECTIVE CHART!  Not to mention, unless I missed it somewhere, it’s possible in battlemap to grab five or ten off a stack really easy (as it would be on a real game board) but TripleA you have to click it a half dozen times to get 5 units, or almost a dozen times to get 10 units off a stack.

[boldfresh]

@Cmdr:

Granted it’s easier to roll dice. � However, I object to the statement that it forces you to move correctly. lol. � No seriously! � I know of a few instances where it still lets you break the rules! � You’ve even pointed them out yourself in Veqyrns thread! �

I am not sure if I like all the flair of TripleA either. � Too reminiscent of Hasbro’s failed debacle of both Axis and Allies and Iron Blitz, heck I’m sure some of the piece models came from there! �

But yes, having the entire territory change color to the new owner is nice. � Not necessary since the control marker updated the income in Battlemap.

And for that matter, finding the menus of what you wanted is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier in battlemap! � Want to know everyone’s income at a glance? � Cash on hand chart. � Want to know overall situation of the board? � Statistics chart. � Can’t remember exactly what you need to get an objective? � OBJECTIVE CHART! � Not to mention, unless I missed it somewhere, it’s possible in battlemap to grab five or ten off a stack really easy (as it would be on a real game board) but TripleA you have to click it a half dozen times to get 5 units, or almost a dozen times to get 10 units off a stack.

Jenn no one uses abattlemap for global.  NO one.  So lament away but it aint comin back  :wink:

[gamerman01]

The same stats are in Triple A also a click away.
One major fault with Triple A, though, is that the income does not reflect NO’s  :-(

Jenn, if you are clicking multiple times to get multiple units, it just means you don’t know about all the functions of Triple A.
You can control click to move a stack.  Shift click to move everything in a territory.  If you shift click a sea zone and move to a land territory, it will only move the ground units, so that is handy.
If you don’t want a whole stack, no problem.  You click ELSEWHERE in the territory and it brings up a dialog box to select (you can type the number) the exact number of units you want to select.  Voila.

I mainly meant that Triple A enforces a lot of rules, like movement limits on airplanes, that Battlemap does not.
In Battlemap you have to check everything - including the opponent’s math.  You can’t buy 12 infantry with 35 IPC’s in TripleA but in Battlemap you can.  So there is a lot of error checking in Triple A.

If you want to play with Battlemap, you’re going to have to play Karl, or play with yourself.  I don’t know anyone else who would be willing to.

[Major Major]

I played battlemap a ton back during revised and even played global with it when triple a was too glitchy and rules were changing daily, but in a game this size playing by battlemap is just too slow.  I’d rather have two boards set up and play by skype now.  TripleA is just too much smoother for online play than to do battlemap.

[gamerman01]

Krieghund just confirmed…

I was correct about #3 on the list…

So now we have to do rocket attacks manually if we have more than 1
And Triple A does rocket attacks in the combat movement phase instead of the combat phase  :roll:
Also, Triple A doesn’t allow multiple attacks against one facility, which is legal.

So basically what I’m saying is to do rockets correctly according to the rules, you’re usually going to need to roll them on the forum and edit.  Like with mixed SBR’s and AAs

[Major Major]

Thanks g-man.  That list is very helpful.  With the number of people playing now, maybe we can get the awesome guys doing the coding to take a look!  They’re so smart and easily flattered that I’m sure they will do it now!

[gamerman01]

Go ahead - I’ve already tried before
You have permission to use that list.  It would be fabulous if they fixed most or all of those things on that list.

[Jennifer]

Also if they could give me the things I liked about battlemap back, like having the charts surgically implanted on the map so I can see them without having to do weird menu trees, oh and be able to shift click or control click or shift+control click to get certain stacks of units off that would be great too….you know what, why don’t I just go back to battlemap?  I don’t like the features of TripleA except the map coloring and the not typing my dice on the server and I am okay with not having either of those…

:P

Sorry, but I’m hungry, tired and been on hold on the phone for over 38 minutes now so I also have no patience!