Game History
Round: 1 Purchase Units - Germans Germans buy 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Trigger Germans 6 Atlantic Wall Broken Switch: Setting switch to false for conditionAttachment_Germans_6_Atlantic_Wall_Possible_Switch attached to Germans Combat Move - Germans 1 armour, 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux 1 mech_infantry moved from Western Germany to Normandy Bordeaux 3 armour and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Austria to France 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Western Germany to France 2 armour, 1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to France 1 fighter moved from Norway to 114 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone 1 battleship moved from 116 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 127 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 121 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 120 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 111 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 111 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 106 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Germany to 113 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to 113 Sea Zone 2 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers moved from Western Germany to 113 Sea Zone 2 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Austria to Yugoslavia 1 armour and 2 infantry moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia 1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Romania to Yugoslavia 1 armour and 1 fighter moved from Poland to Yugoslavia Combat - Germans Battle in Yugoslavia Germans attack with 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 9 infantry Neutral_Allies defend with 5 infantry Germans win, taking Yugoslavia from Neutral_Allies with 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 9 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 15 Casualties for Neutral_Allies: 5 infantry Battle in Normandy Bordeaux Germans attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry French defend with 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry Germans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from French with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7 Casualties for French: 1 artillery and 1 infantry Battle in 114 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber British defend with 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Germans Germans win with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 31 Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine Casualties for British: 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer Battle in 109 Sea Zone Germans attack with 2 submarines British defend with 1 destroyer and 1 transport Germans win, taking 109 Sea Zone from Neutral with 2 submarines remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14 Casualties for British: 1 destroyer and 1 transport Battle in 113 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 bomber, 3 fighters, 2 submarines and 4 tactical_bombers British defend with 1 battleship and 1 cruiser; French defend with 1 cruiser Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British Germans win with 1 bomber, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 18 Casualties for Germans: 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber Casualties for French: 1 cruiser Casualties for British: 1 battleship and 1 cruiser Battle in France Germans attack with 5 armour, 2 artilleries, 6 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys British defend with 1 armour and 1 artillery; French defend with 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 factory_major, 1 fighter and 6 infantry Germans captures 19PUs while taking French capital Germans converts factory_major into different units Germans win, taking France from French with 5 armour and 4 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 27 Casualties for Germans: 2 artilleries and 6 infantry Casualties for French: 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 6 infantry Casualties for British: 1 armour and 1 artillery Trigger Germans Conquer France: Setting switch to true for conditionAttachment_French_1_Liberation_Switch attached to French triggerFrenchDestroyPUsGermans: Setting destroysPUs to true for playerAttachment attached to French Non Combat Move - Germans 1 cruiser and 1 transport moved from 117 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone 3 infantry moved from Norway to Finland Germans take Finland from Neutral_Axis 2 infantry moved from Denmark to 115 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from 115 Sea Zone to Norway 1 aaGun, 3 artilleries and 11 infantry moved from Germany to Poland 1 infantry moved from Romania to Bulgaria Germans take Bulgaria from Neutral_Axis 1 fighter moved from Yugoslavia to Southern Italy 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 114 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from 114 Sea Zone to Western Germany 1 bomber, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from 113 Sea Zone to Western Germany 1 aaGun moved from Germany to Slovakia Hungary 1 aaGun moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux 1 aaGun moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium Place Units - Germans 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine placed in 115 Sea Zone Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from 114 Sea Zone: 1 submarine EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from 114 Sea Zone: 1 battleship EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to 115 Sea Zone: 1 battleship EDIT: Changing unit hit damage for these Germans owned units to: battleship = 1 EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turn Complete - Germans Germans collect 41 PUs; end with 60 PUs Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 65 PUs Objective Germans 1 Trade with Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 70 PUs2013 - AAG 40 League
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If Mr. Yogen is entitled to any rerolls, I assume it would be his defensive roll on R2 and then all of R3 if, IF, he gets more hits than he did R2. If he gets less or the same R2, my roll R3 should stand.
Correct?
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I withdraw my claim. The victory will be just that much sweeter despite not picking my OOL and the luck factor…
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If someone kills my carriers off and keeps my cruisers without asking and continues the battle to the end and the end result is me losing anyway… I am OK with that.
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I don’t know why you’d have a problem with a guy giving you indisputable maximum defense. Since you have no units surviving and got maximum defense, I don’t think you have a complaint.
If I give a guy maximum defense and don’t ask for casualty choices, then I always give him the right to pick his survivors after the fact. You had no survivors and you got maximum defense. What’s the problem?
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He withdrew his claim so there is no problem!
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Everything is cool.
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Please check your OOLs with your opponents before rolling, if you think there is any question. However, if you are okay with leaving the best possible defenders and then having your opponent change his casualties after the battle because you did not ask him, feel free to go that route.
For instance, had mryogen been left with a couple damaged battleships and a cruiser, I would have allowed him to replace the cruiser with an aircraft carrier as he was not asked before hand. (This is not the situation, the defender lost everything, I believe, and Karl did have 73% odds of victory.)
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You know, the more I read the China rules, the more I am inclined to say that China can bid any units it wants too, for next year as well.
For instance, I said this before, the fighter that China gets is really an American fighter that can never get replaced when destroyed. However, it’s used by China as if it was a Chinese unit, and it is restricted to the same territories that China is.
Also, any Artillery that China is allowed to “buy” are also American Artillery units, but they are used by China and are restricted like Chinese units…Every time I look at these rules, it implies to me that there should be no restriction on what units China may or may not get in the bidding process. I know it’s unpopular, and I know that some even say it’s a tactical blunder to do so, but I’m just not seeing any reason NOT to let someone bid for tanks and more planes for China. Especially if we institute a policy of 1 unit max per territory, or even 1 unit max per nation.
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FWIW I agree, and keep in mind it’s not necessarily unpopular. You’ve probably heard from all the dissenters. Do you really know how many people are fine with it or like it?
Good point on the artillery. I had forgotten before that even the artillery units are borrowed from the USA box, so the argument that there aren’t Chinese tanks or bombers in the box really holds no water whatsoever.
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The rules allow for one and only one fighter, and for any number of artillery as long as a certain condition is met. Any decision is yours anyway, but on what rule or logic do you build a case for any unit other than inf and art? If the rules would say the fighter is replacable, Id see the case for a fig bid, but as it is I think only inf and art are what the rules allow. Again, any new rule for league play is up to league management, but I think it has a reason China is restricted the way it is.
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The artillery is not borrowed from the USA box in global. Neither is the fighter.
The box came with 1 china fighter. It did not come with many artillery, but it had an infantry to cover each space at least.
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You are thinking of AA50 where China did not get its own box.
I would have thrown a hissy fit if China didn’t get purple pieces for the price of the global board.
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@Cow:
The artillery is not borrowed from the USA box in global. Neither is the fighter.
The rules are quite clear that all Artillery units for China and the Chinese fighter are American units. That these American units are attached to the Chinese army and may be used as if they were owned by China. The color of the unit does not have significant impact on how the rules are written.
If I may: > These artillery units will be supplied by the United States player (because China does not have any of its own), but are considered to be Chinese units in all respects. Page 10 of the Pacific rule book.
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@alexgreat:
The rules allow for one and only one fighter, and for any number of artillery as long as a certain condition is met. Any decision is yours anyway, but on what rule or logic do you build a case for any unit other than inf and art? If the rules would say the fighter is replacable, Id see the case for a fig bid, but as it is I think only inf and art are what the rules allow. Again, any new rule for league play is up to league management, but I think it has a reason China is restricted the way it is.
The rules specifically say that the fighter cannot be rebuilt. They do not say that China cannot get another if the United States bids another one for China. In fact, the rules say nothing about bidding at all.
The rules do, specifically, state that no Chinese unit can leave Chinese soil (except Kwangtung/Burma) nor can it go in or over the ocean. So that precludes bidding for any naval units.
Since even the artillery the Chinese get are, per the rules on page 10, American and not Chinese (color not withstanding,) and there is precedent for America putting non-infantry units into China before the game is begun, then I see no reason to disallow the players from using precedent and practice to put jeeps or tanks or any other non-base or non-naval unit in China for purposes of bidding.
Remember, the rules just specify these special units cannot be rebuilt after being destroyed.
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I got a purple fighter. They represent private military contractors from America.
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The artillery are not American. The Burma road is required to produce them. They get the supplies from India, which was a British occupied territory, how is that American? It is made in china.
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@Cow:
The artillery are not American. The Burma road is required to produce them. They get the supplies from India, which was a British occupied territory, how is that American? It is made in china.
Read the rules again, Cow. I even quoted them for you. The Artillery are American as is the Fighter.
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China can purchase and
mobilize artillery, but only if the road is open during China’s
Purchase and Repair Units phase. These artillery units will
be supplied by the United States player (because China does
not have any of its own), but are considered to be Chinese
units in all respects.To clarify, the artillery units will be supplied by the United States because China does not have any of its own. They may have pieces in the box, but those are not Chinese units, they are America units with paint on them to look Chinese. They are not made in China, else they would not need the Burma road to be open and could produce them where they produce rifles for their infantry.
Since all non-infantry units in China are American, and there is precedent for America to give to China units it cannot otherwise attain, and because America is not limited as to what units it may produce, then the only restrictions on China are that the units cannot leave Chinese soil, Kwangtung or Burma. Likewise, China is specifically barred from owning industrial complexes so those too are banned from bidding. I’d say bases are banned as well, but honestly, if you are giving the allies enough IPC to use on bids that they can afford to put air and naval bases in China, then I think you deserve to both laugh at your opponent for doing so, and lose the game because you gave them WAY too much money. But that’s just me.
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@Cmdr:
they are America units with paint on them to look Chinese. They are not made in China, else they would not need the Burma road to be open and could produce them where they produce rifles for their infantry.
I thought EVERYTHING was made in China! :lol:
I’d say bases are banned as well, but honestly, if you are giving the allies enough IPC to use on bids that they can afford to put air and naval bases in China, then I think you deserve to both laugh at your opponent for doing so, and lose the game because you gave them WAY too much money. But that’s just me.
The whole China bid controversy is hilarious. If you bid anything but infantry or artillery (for China), it’s sub-optimal anyway. Even with a 1 unit per territory limit.
Bidding is a league rule that is entirely at the discretion of the moderator.
Jennifer is the moderator.
Therefore, Jennifer can make whatever bid rules she wants.She established the rule (for the first time in recent years) that you could bid a unit to a territory that had no units. There wasn’t much complaint about that.
Anyway - you all are allowing the Allies to have bids that are too high. If you allow a bid of 9, your opponent can put 3 infantry in Yunnan, and this has been legal ALL YEAR. If you allow a bid higher than 9, you deserve whatever you get. If you allow a bid of 4-6 and your opponent elects to place a mech or a tank in China - big whoop. 2 infantry in London is better than a tank in China, and 2 infantry in London is not an optimal bid.
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Hey Cow, did 2nd edition actually include a purple fighter and some purple artillery, or are you just making that up?
In the original game, which I own, there are only light green Chinese infantry. Purple is the color used in Triple A :roll:
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