2013 - AAG 40 League

[gamerman01]

You didn’t read the league rules, did you.

[gamerman01]

@Cmdr:

9 - Scoring/Playoffs
The top two players, with the best winning scores (Must complete at least 4 games, agianst at least 3 different opponents) will advance to the playoffs.  
If there is a tie between any players then the tie will be broken by:
1 - head to head play
2 - Total wins

---

Any suggestions or alterations you seem are warranted, please post them now for discussion and possible inclusion.  Discussion ends on 28 October, 2012 and any posted rules are finalized then.  After 28, October, any rules are final and there will be no negotiating.

OK, I see why you’re confused.
Jenn did not define “winning scores”

I guess I don’t know for sure, but I thought it was winning percentage.
A minimum of 4 games seemed appropriate at the time, but like I said, interest exploded after the rules were done.

As Cow has observed, some players could hit 50 games played at the pace they’re on.

Jennifer, I hope you’re reading this….
The playoff rules should definitely be clarified at a minimum, and probably should be modified.

If you can just play 4 games and win them all and have a 1.00 win percent, then you are guaranteed a playoff spot.
With the current rules you could have a guy go 49 and 1 and not make the playoffs.

Eh, whatever, the playoffs and champion crowning don’t mean anything to me - it’s just the principle of the thing.

WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY SCORING/SCORES??

[gamerman01]

Also, 2 players playing one game does not a “playoff” make.

If it does, then college football has playoffs because #1 plays #2 for one game for the national championship.  That’s basically what you have here - a 1 game championship between two 4-0 players.  Meanwhile, you will probably have a bunch of guys who’ve played 20+ games for the year with impressive win percentages vs. a wide variety of opponents who will be standing by watching a couple of 4-0 or 6-0 or whatever players playing for the championship?

Please fix.

[Zhukov44]

The (well-known and much-discussed) problem with the league is the classification is determined by win %, which means that the players who get the most wins or who play the toughest opposition don’t necessarily come out on top.  Consequently, the top players are in no hurry to play each other and typically won’t meet till the play-offs.  However, so far no one seems to have come up with a solution that is sufficiently simple.  Hopefully Gamerman’s ranking project will guide us toward a better ranking system.

It reminds me of the sport of boxing where money rules and therefore sometimes there isn’t sufficient incentive for the best to fight the best.  Just like in boxing…. playing lesser opposition is useful for honing strats and building confidence…but…losses teach us alot more than wins.

One idea worth pondering (in lieu of a tournament) is a round-robin competition.  Basically, we get a group of 6 or so, and we play each other (5 games apiece).  In this format, luck of the draw plays no role and lucky dice are less likely to effect the overall result.

[gamerman01]

I think one possibility is to not have a playoff and to not have a champion.
I mean, all we have right now anyway is a huge, great regular season with 1 cheesy game at the end between 2 of the many good players (and as Zhukov and I are both saying - it’s probably not the best 2 anyway).
I mean, hundreds and hundreds of games will be played by the end of this season (A&A gods be praised), and there’s going to be 1 at the end between 2 of the players with the highest win % who have played a minimum of 4 games?  That will be an interesting side-show.

Zhuk, I appreciate your point about the best players avoiding each other to prevent their win % from tanking, but let’s step back and think about it.  Is it really that glorious to play in a high-pressure championship game and be called the league champion, when you can’t really brag about it later anyway and everyone forgets and most people don’t care?  Is that worth depriving yourself of good competitive fun games against other top players during the year for fear your win % will drop?  I certainly don’t think so.

With all humility, I think the excitement for the vast majority of the players (besides the actual game play, which should be the greatest fun and excitement) is seeing how they stack up in the rankings and trying to advance up the rankings, and watching other players rise and fall.

In short, I think the journey is WAY more fun than the destination, and in the case of the cheesy 1 game “playoff” at the end of hundreds of games between dozens of players, missing the “goal” of making the “playoff” is really nothing to worry about.

Let me ask this.  Who really wants to make the playoff, and why?  :-)

[gamerman01]

I’m playing the formidable Allweneedislove in a revenge game where he is hell-bent on beating me, and that is very likely to cost me my 100% win percentage, which means that one single game, even if I play dozens during the year, may very well cost me a playoff berth.

So I’m saying, screw it, I think the purpose of the league is to have an organized way with uniform rules and moderators to get as many players together as possible to have a great time playing A&A together.  :-)

[Karl7]

Ha, I wanted to make the playoffs to pound my chest as the best.  But, this league season has not gone well for me.

All that aside, I’ve been saying for months that the playoffs should be much more inclusive and broad based.

I’d say anyone who has at least 50% win average with at least say 6 games should be eligible with players matched up randomly.

The spar off between the top two players is really anti-climatic.

[gamerman01]

@Karl7:

The spar off between the top two players is really anti-climatic.

But that’s just it.  If it’s just minimum 4 games and highest win percentage, you’ll probably have two 4-0 players facing off.  With players that are 20-2, 40-10, and 36-5 watching from the sidelines.

This year is the polar opposite of last year, isn’t it?

[Zhukov44]

@Gamerman01:

In short, I think the journey is WAY more fun than the destination, and in the case of the cheesy 1 game “playoff” at the end of hundreds of games between dozens of players, missing the “goal” of making the “playoff” is really nothing to worry about.

Let me ask this.  Who really wants to make the playoff, and why?  :-)

Agreed, well said.  The times I’ve made the play-off, it’s been pretty stressful anyway (though perhaps I feel that way cause I’ve never won  :roll:)

What might be cool is a “ladder” ranking like over on tripleawarclub

http://www.tripleawarclub.org/modules/comp/

Your rankings are pretty close to a ladder actually.

Idk if folks here are familiar with the “ladder leagues” at GTO…that’s another league model worth a look.

http://www.gametableonline.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=51

Obviously we can’t commit anywhere near as many games as they commit to a month (especially with a massive game like Global), though the TripleA format definitely speeds things up.

[gamerman01]

@Zhukov44:

Agreed, well said.  The times I’ve made the play-off, it’s been pretty stressful anyway (though perhaps I feel that way cause I’ve never won  :roll:)

No, I have drawn the same conclusion.  I have won and lost league championship games, and they were both more stressful than I like.  Some of you may be aware that I deliberately didn’t finish my 8th game in time last October/November so that I wouldn’t qualify for the AA50-41 playoffs, even though it meant defending my title.  I learned it was too much stress, and too much time.  The previous year’s 2 playoff games prevented me from playing as many regular season 2012 games.

Tyzoq and Yoshi are still playing the championship game and they’re only in like round 4 I think.
I’d rather sit back and watch.  I have no regrets from avoiding the playoffs.

Looking at your ladder links now.
Am I missing out by not playing in the TripleA ladder?  I see you have an impressive 81% winning percentage (no surprise) and have played 48 games.

[gamerman01]

OK, Cow started this whole discussion by saying he’s not interested in having to play like 50 games to qualify for a playoff.

My answer to that is, it’s not about the playoff for the vast majority of players.
The league is an organized way to get fun and challenging matches with players from all over, using uniform rules and set moderator(s).  I hope my part art, part science system for unofficial rankings is enhancing everyone’s experience.

It’s not as fancy as the GTO or TripleA war club systems.  I guess I could assign cool sounding ranks to different ranges of Points Per Game, but that’s surely not necessary.  I guess the # rank is how we determine the pecking order around here.

Anyway, I think the ranking spreadsheet should help players find an opponent who has the skill level and experience level they’re looking for.

I’m pretty confident that if you play a game with someone with a PPG within 0.20 of your own, you will almost always have a HECK of a GAME  :-)

[Zhukov44]

@Gamerman01:

@Zhukov44:

Am I missing out by not playing in the TripleA ladder?  I see you have an impressive 81% winning percentage (no surprise) and have played 48 games.

Been a long while since I participated unfortunately.  Too bad there’s no global ladder.  The top guys are good honorable opponents.  Hopefully they will start playing over here now that TripleA is more accepted.  Some of them prefer low luck, and indeed most of my ladder games were low luck.

I wasn’t keen on the 2 game format with a set bid at first, but eventually I realized it has alot going for it as a means of accomplishing a fair ranking system.  It makes it so you can’t use bidding tactics (and/or superior knowledge of which side has the edge) to your advantage.  With the 2 game format, there are alot of 1-1 splits if the skill level is relatively even, with Axis having the better win percentage.

[Zhukov44]

Lol, post-fail, pls ignore.

Am I missing out by not playing in the TripleA ladder?  I see you have an impressive 81% winning percentage (no surprise) and have played 48 games.

Been a long while since I participated unfortunately.  Too bad there’s no global ladder.  The top guys are good honorable opponents.  Hopefully they will start playing over here now that TripleA is more accepted.  Some of them prefer low luck, and indeed most of my ladder games were low luck.

I wasn’t keen on the 2 game format with a set bid at first, but eventually I realized it has alot going for it as a means of accomplishing a fair ranking system.  It makes it so you can’t use bidding tactics (and/or superior knowledge of which side has the edge) to your advantage.  With the 2 game format, there are alot of 1-1 splits if the skill level is relatively even, with Axis having the better win percentage.

[gamerman01]

@Cmdr:

4a - Tech - Tech is allowed in every game if you and your opponent agree to Tech prior to bidding.  To avoid confusion please notate +Tech in the first post of the game thread if this is the case.

I just learned today that there is a league game being played with tech tokens.  The league rule doesn’t specify whether this is allowed or not.

There is no provision for tech tokens in the E40 rulebook, i.e. they are not allowed by the normal game rules.  They are a house rule.

Are tech tokens legal in league play??

[Odonis]

@Gamerman01:

I’m playing the formidable Allweneedislove in a revenge game where he is hell-bent on beating me, and that is very likely to cost me my 100% win percentage, which means that one single game, even if I play dozens during the year, may very well cost me a playoff berth.

So I’m saying, screw it, I think the purpose of the league is to have an organized way with uniform rules and moderators to get as many players together as possible to have a great time playing A&A together.  :-)

Hear Hear!

[Jeff28]

@Gamerman01:

@Cmdr:

4a - Tech - Tech is allowed in every game if you and your opponent agree to Tech prior to bidding.  To avoid confusion please notate +Tech in the first post of the game thread if this is the case.

I just learned today that there is a league game being played with tech tokens.  The league rule doesn’t specify whether this is allowed or not.

There is no provision for tech tokens in the E40 rulebook, i.e. they are not allowed by the normal game rules.  They are a house rule.

Are tech tokens legal in league play??

Didn’t Krieg say that Wizards cut them out just because they cost too much to make? Maybe playing tokens would be closer to the real intended product. It’s a lotta fun to play that way on Triple A.

[gamerman01]

@Jeff28:

Didn’t Krieg say that Wizards cut them out just because they cost too much to make? Maybe playing tokens would be closer to the real intended product. It’s a lotta fun to play that way on Triple A.

Yes I think he said that and yes it would be a lot of fun.

But if the intent was to allow tech tokens they could have printed that with one sentence in the rules, but they didn’t.

[gamerman01]

@Gamerman01:

@Cmdr:

4a - Tech - Tech is allowed in every game if you and your opponent agree to Tech prior to bidding.  To avoid confusion please notate +Tech in the first post of the game thread if this is the case.

I just learned today that there is a league game being played with tech tokens.  The league rule doesn’t specify whether this is allowed or not.

There is no provision for tech tokens in the E40 rulebook, i.e. they are not allowed by the normal game rules.  They are a house rule.

Are tech tokens legal in league play??

Still looking for an answer to this question from a league moderator.

I would like to know if I choose to play a league game with tokens if that will be legal or if the result might be nullified after I play.  Also, there is at least 1 league game in progress right now where players are playing with tokens, which I thought was a house rule.  House rules are not allowed in league play, I thought

[Cow]

Right now I just don’t see the point of league. I would just be playing for fun, why report it?
~
It is troublesome to implement a ranking system mid season so maybe that can be implemented at the start of next season for practical purposes.
~
I always thought the ladder winners of this forum were just the players who played the most.
~

Zhukov I thought you were the triple a ladder champ?

[Cow]

Ah they do not reset the ladder every season.
~
For someone to jump into it, it would be rough finding a match.
~

I propose this soluation

Ladder comprised of the following players:

1. player with the most games under their belt
2. player with the most wins under their belt
3. player with the longest win streak
4. player with the highest winning percentage

If a player double qualifies take the next player and put an annotation.

I do not know how many players participate in the ladder. Four seems appropriate I am guessing. Expand to eight if necessary, single elimination.