My dad volunteered with Frontier College back in the 60’s. I think they did a lot of the infrastructure work that you’re talking about Yanny - building hospitals and schools, water supplies, etc. I don’t know where they’ve all been - i know my dad was posted to Nigeria . . . .
And Nigeria is a lot better off because of the facilities we (and the oil companies) have built there. However, in East Africa, all we’ve done is send food. And most of the time, this food doesn’t get into the hands of the people, because there is no organized Government, and a gang of thugs with guns take the food and sell it for their own benefit.
Exactly.
“Fight those who do not believe in God and the Last Day”
-Koran
WIthin a few decades of it’s inception, Islam fought Persia, Byzantium, Mesopotamia, and Egypt, and fought 3 civil wars.
The major clerics in citites like Medina are often calling for the destruction of Jews, Hindus, and Christians.
The Koran calls the Jews Christ Killers.
“Fight those who do not believe in God and the Last Day”
I’ve also seen examples (though I don’t have a Koran in front of me) of quotes like “Accept Christians and Jews as your brothers, for they originate from the same idea”. Thats not a direct quote, its close, but if I can find the exact script, I’ll change it.
WIthin a few decades of it’s inception, Islam fought Persia, Byzantium, Mesopotamia, and Egypt, and fought 3 civil wars.
No, Islaam spread to Mesopotamia, Egypt, and Persia. The Turks were fighting the Byzantines for centuries, don’t know much about the 3 civil wars.
The major clerics in citites like Medina are often calling for the destruction of Jews, Hindus, and Christians.
These are just yahoos from one side. We have radical Christians from the south calling for us to round up Muslims and place them in “Interment Camps”.
The Koran calls the Jews Christ Killers.
It also calls Jews brothers. And hell, the Jews did kill Jesus. Christ is a prophet to Muslims. So are several Jewish figures.
The problem is that religion is so inflexible. Even if the Koran said not too, shouldn’t common humanity suggest you still treat Jews and Christians (and all humans) as brothers? :-?
@TG:
The problem is that religion is so inflexible. Even if the Koran said not too, shouldn’t common humanity suggest you still treat Jews and Christians (and all humans) as brothers? :-?
amen brother! :D
@TG:
The problem is that religion is so inflexible. Even if the Koran said not too, shouldn’t common humanity suggest you still treat Jews and Christians (and all humans) as brothers? :-?
True, TG.
That is another of my problems with any religion…
There comes a time even when even we have to amend our own Constitution to keep up with the times. :)
No, Islaam spread to Mesopotamia, Egypt, and Persia. The Turks were fighting the Byzantines for centuries, don’t know much about the 3 civil wars.
Study your Middle Eastern History. Islam spread by FORCE from the areas conquered by Mohammad to the rest of Arabia, Mesopotamia, Eqypt, Cyrnecia, Eastern Anatolia, Syria, Iran, and central Asia.
The Byzantines were fighting the PERSIANS, not the Turks, at least not in the seventh century. The Turks didn’t leave central asia until the eleventh century.
These are just yahoos from one side. We have radical Christians from the south calling for us to round up Muslims and place them in “Interment Camps”.
This is the equivalent of the Pope and the council of Southern Baptists calling for the forced conversion of the Arabs. Yahoos, Yanny?
Study your Middle Eastern History. Islam spread by FORCE from the areas conquered by Mohammad to the rest of Arabia, Mesopotamia, Eqypt, Cyrnecia, Eastern Anatolia, Syria, Iran, and central Asia.
Yes and no. It spread through force by conversion of non-jews/christians/zoroastrians. These three groups were left more or less alone. And where do you put central asia, that would be interesting to know since you yourself brought up that we speak about the seventh century, and not the eleventh…
““And when the filibustering is over, what are the answers?””
Well, TG, I agree talk is cheap. As for action, reckon each of us does what best suits our abilities and opportunities. Lead by example, etc. The guiding answer for me is to ask whether such and such an action (individual, group, national, etc.) provides more healing than hurt, and does it engender additional healing or simply eat away resources that could be better applied elsewhere. Triage, as they call it.
On the original theme of this thread, that a particular religion isnt as bad as its current and historical press might indicate, well I see the yin and yang in each of the “big faiths” – each has provided comfort and inspiration to multitudes, and each has been used to foment hate and destruction upon multitudes. Among both the fundamentalist Christians and the fundamentalist Muslims of today, one thing is held in common: the wish to send us all back to the authoritarian, intolerant, anti-intellect and anti-liberty setup of medieval times – although in great irony, both types also wish to obtain, hold and utilize all the fruits of democracy, tolerance, intellect and liberty (such as modern telecommunications, financial instruments, advanced weapons, etc.) in order to achieve this end.
Taking a long view, the ideology doesn’t matter to a starving kid. The protein does. How much our government or social club or religion should shell out to save these kids from starving is a vital question, as are the related foreign policy issues others have discussed above. Most participants in this forum seem to live within the lands where food is abundant, as are weapons and financial resources. It would be wise for us to use these resources to encourage benign stability and local self-determination and conflict resolution. It’s a case-by-case situation, and you have to have reliable people on the ground. If you find Muslims or animists or Christians or Communists or Hindus are the most trustworthy locals in a given situation, better work with em. I would stipulate that they aren’t being favored because of their faith, but because of their character.
There are reasons I started this topic.
I live in New Jersey. We have more Muslims in our state than any other state in the union. I know quite a few, some of you may remember the tragic death of a good friend of mine (and fellow Boy Scout) last year to an IDF gun.
Simply enough, Muslims are seen as scapegoats in this country. After 9/11, a beautiful mosque in Paterson, NJ, was desecrated. I had never seen an ounce of grafitee on the building until 9/11. In the weeks after, and still today, there are countless racial slurs spraypainted on the wall. The stained glass windows were stoned and destroyed. I believe it even was robbed.
This is just one of countless inicidents in New Jersey. There are almost daily protests from crazy Christians outside the American Muslim society in Paramus. People have gone to court to stop their colleges from requiring the Koran to be read, while the Bible and Old Testament are required for similar majors. People have a huge distaste for the Islaamic Religion, and blame it for 9/11. As I have said in this thread, that is not the case.
You say its All talk and No Game. For many this may be, but I know I spend a lot of my time helping out in a food kitchen, and generally doing service work with the Boy Scouts. I can’t vote yet, but when I am old enough I certainly would vote for a candidate who supports my political views.
Straight ahead, Yanny.
The world needs fewer scapegoats and scapegoaters, and more individuals willing to stand up, take responsibility for their community. Keep lending that hand and studying the issues… maybe that politician will someday turn out to be you.
My views on this subject are well established (2nd one i think . . .) but at the same time, if i was an American, or if these things happened in Canada, it would not be long before i started wondering “why are the practicers of Islam/people of Arabic descent who claim to be Canadians not denouncing these occurrances”? There are declarations of war nearly daily against America by “these people” (not all Muslims blah blah blah) with few standing up and saying “this is my country! I love it! You have incurred our wrath, our shock, and we will not let this happen again!” Instead they reflexively protest being targetted because of these attacks - but not because they abhor the attacks and feel empathy with their fellow Americans. No, it’s because they live in America and should not be singled out like this. As a 3rd person observer working with Muslims i respect greatly - some of which have helped form my life, i am a little surprised at the fact that the only apparent outcry following 9/11 is:
I’ve heard quite a few Muslim leaders denounce these terrorists. At least on Talk Radio. You don’t see much of it on TV.
The people dancing in the street were few and far betwen. Mostly in regions oppressed by US weapons. I’m not saying that this is right, but they see us as supplying their enemy. Which we are.
Simply enough, Muslims are seen as scapegoats in this country.
Because they are the religion treated best by the media? Because of the tremendous amont of out pouring of support to the Muslim Community post 9/11? Because there was no serious lashing out against Muslims in the U.S.?
Because they are the religion treated best by the media? Because of the tremendous amont of out pouring of support to the Muslim Community post 9/11? Because there was no serious lashing out against Muslims in the U.S.?
LOL :lol:
you belive this?
you belive this?
I believe it because I say it with my own two eyes. :-? After 9/11 there was a huge surge to support for the Muslim community by the media teaching people not to hate and not to blame Muslims but the true terrorists for 9/11. In schools it was made perfectly care not to tolerate violence on that group. Aren’t you surprised that the number of hate crimes didn’t shoot up even higher. Of course in California, it’s much more ethnically diverse so I’m not so sure about the rest of the Union. :-?
ya they did that but still a lot of americans thought muslims are evil, and the plans to attach the muslims in horrific ways were found out and stoped but if the hadnt stoped it….
