2013 - AAG 40 League

[gamerman01]

If you and I were bidding against each other, Bold, and we both wanted the Allies for whatever reason, then we’re not going to give up the Allies to the other player with a positive bid.  We’re not going to agree to give up the Allies with a +0 bid either.  So if we had started by bidding for the allies, we would find our bid going negative.

If I bid -3 for the Allies, it means I’ll take the Allies and you can add 3 IPC’s as Axis.
So you’re thinking, OK, I could place an infantry in Kwangsi (for example), but if I’m going to agree to NOT take the Allies, then I would require at least 6, so that I could add a German sub in the Atlantic.  So you bid -5.

Now I’m thinking, I want the Allies but I’m not willing to give you 6 because you could add a sub to the Atlantic, so I let you have the bid at -5.

Now you get the Allies because you won the bid and we are bidding to be Allies.  You agreed to give me 5 IPC’s to add to the Axis powers.  It is not enough to place a sub in the Atlantic.  That’s why you bid 5.  To raise the bid to get to play the Allies, I would have to give you 6, which means you would get the sub in the Atlantic that you wanted.

I don’t see any problem with conducting bidding this way and going into negative bids.  If there is a problem, I’d like someone to point it out.

[Karl7]

Bidding confused me for awhile.  Mostly because it was always for the Axis.  In G40 the advantage was to the allies so the bid started “negative.”  I always just tell people that the bid is how much you are willing to pay me to take the Allies.  That usually clears it up.

I’d be surprised that someone was so good with the Allies they would pay the other player to be the Axis.

[Eqqman]

Request for ComdrJennifer-

Can you please update the top post in the thread to reflect the complete rules for bid placement?  Standard bid placement rules apply for all bids.  (Same as previous leagues) is not helpful.  Especially in cases where yo utry to find a previous league and that also says same as previous…, etc.

[boldfresh]

@Eggman:

Request for ComdrJennifer-

Can you please update the top post in the thread to reflect the complete rules for bid placement?  Standard bid placement rules apply for all bids.  (Same as previous leagues) is not helpful.  Especially in cases where yo utry to find a previous league and that also says same as previous…, etc.

amen eqqman.

[Cow]

Global second edition, I assume.

Anyone want to play a league game with me? I will be axis, you take allies @ 15 bid, no stacking yunnan or france with 5 infantry and praying. Dice or LL.

Weekend player rules, I usually post within 24 hours, but if I have to study for a mid term then I might forget!
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As far as what the tournament rules should be goes: Bids should incorporate 1 unit per territory rule, otherwise bids cannot go very high as the allies can cheese a place like yunnan by adding 4-5 infantry and Russia can fly 2 air units into it (then Japan 1 cannot take yunnan!), many other cheese scenarios can occur. The point of a bid is not to cheese someone, but to make possible new attacks (tobruk, korea, etc) or smooth out defenses for places like london, egypt, etc… not to make “blowouts” or “fortresses”

[gamerman01]

Good point, Cow.

Agree

[Cow]

Also if you are able to place units where you do not have men, for example in dutch new guinea… 3 ipcs become 10, in that you can freely take part of an island.

[gamerman01]

@Cow:

Also if you are able to place units where you do not have men, for example in dutch new guinea… 3 ipcs become 10, in that you can freely take part of an island.

You can’t place anything in Dutch New Guinea because it’s controlled by the Dutch.
You can place an infantry in New Guinea (the ANZ controlled half) according to the 2013 league rules.  See the first couple pages of this thread.

[Cow]

ok!

[gamerman01]

@Cmdr:

Any units you purchase with your bid amount are to be placed in any territory you control at the start of the game.  If you purchase a naval vessel, it may only be placed in sea zones where you currently have a naval vessel.

Like Eggman said, it would be nice if she edited the first post with this.

[Cow]

yeah I am not from here so I did not know you can bid for countries not at war. Seems kind of off. Then you can put a Russian bomber on amur and strike Japan’s cruiser transport… people used to do stuff like that in aa50, it was kind of lame.

[Eqqman]

@Cow:

yeah I am not from here so I did not know you can bid for countries not at war. Seems kind of off.

I’m not really sure that is so much of a problem.  If you allow your opponent to have such a high bid that they can even consider getting a bomber, you have to start to expect stuff like this.

I’ve never heard anybody mention not at war as a restriction before.  That seems somewhat unfair as then the bid for the Allies can only go to UK-Europe or China.  Well, or France, but I’m not sure what you could do with a French bid that wouldn’t be better accomplished via somebody else.  I suppose if you took a +6 bid and placed Inf in Morocco and Algeria you could consolidate and hang on in North Africa one turn or two longer.

[Zhukov44]

So what are the “standard bid placement rules” exactly?

On TripleA the standard is only place 1 unit per territory.  Also widely practiced, but not necessarily mandated, is only place units in territories that already have units.

But then again in past league games I’ve seen placements of 3-4 land units in Egypt…  So is placing several units in one territory technically ok in league play or not?

[wheatbeer]

@Eggman:

can only go to UK-Europe or China. Well, or France

UK-Pacific is only a separate economy, not a separate political entity.  The UK begin the game at war with Germany and Italy on both sides of the map.  ANZAC likewise begins the game at war with Germany and Italy.

I never heard of an at war restriction either. Either way, I agree that this should all be spelled out clearly.

[Jeff28]

My understanding…

Land units in a territory you own (can be empty), stack as many as you want.

Sea units where there is already a unit, stack as many as you want.

[666]

4b - Bidding - You will be bidding for the Allies.
An Auction style of bidding will be used.  Players may announce their desired bid in IPCs while trying to find an opponent.  Any player can accept the bid or attempt to negotiate the bid up or down until an agreement is reached.  The ipcs can then be spent on units (full placement) or used for IPCs.  If both players bid the same (or cannot agree on a bid) the sides are chosen by a random in-house dice roll.

4c - Bid Placements - Bids can be placed all in one territory, spread out over multiple territories, or taken in IPCs to one country or split between multiple countries.
Land bids must be placed in a territory which you own at the beginning of the game but are restricted to units of that countries nationality. 
Examples for clarification -
A - UK can bid units to Egy.  Russia/US cannot.
B - UK can bid units to Bor/Sum.  Russia/US cannot.
C - US/UK/Rus cannot bid units to any Chinese territory.  Only Chinese units can be placed there.
Naval Bids must be placed in a seazone which already contains at least one unit and are restricted to that countries nationality.
Examples for clarification -
A - Russia can only bit naval units to sz 4.
B - UK can bid units to sz 12.  Russia/US cannot.
C - US can bid units to sz 50.  Russia/UK cannot.
You can bid for Industrial Complexes.  Placement (of newly purchased units) may take place immediately in the placement phase of Round 1.  The new IC will be limited by the IPC total of the territory on which it is placed and all other standard IC rules apply.

[gamerman01]

@JWW:

Examples for clarification -
A - Russia can only bit naval units to sz 4.

This could confuse people.  Russia also has naval units in 115, so could bid units there too.

[gamerman01]

Looks good, JWW.  Also looks familiar.  That’s probably buried in this thread somewhere, right?

So can you or some moderator please append that text you just posted to the original post, in #4?  Then people (including newcomers) can see all the league rules properly on the first post.

[Eqqman]

@JWW:

You can bid for Industrial Complexes.  Placement (of newly purchased units) may take place immediately in the placement phase of Round 1.  The new IC will be limited by the IPC total of the territory on which it is placed and all other standard IC rules apply.

This rule sounds like it needs to be updated to reflect the new changes in how ICs work for 2e.  Otherwise this implies that a minor IC bid in Egypt for example will only ever produce 2 units a turn instead of the 3 you would expect.

[gamerman01]

Good point.  That’s not even a change of 2nd edition, it’s been that way since the original 2010 OOB P40 and E40…

Whatever, who’s ever going to get a bid of 12 and place an IC?