@Colt45:
This is not a dating website.
Oh Shizzle…
[quietly deletes post about being a Scorpio and liking to take long walks on the beach…]
Scientific Discussion (No Politics) regarding validity of climate change
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The efforts of early 20th century organizations like the American Bison Society, headed by zoologist William Hornaday and former president Theodore Roosevelt, were able to rescue the bison from its impending extinction
Well there’s no contra position to “The American President rescued the bison from it’s impending extinction” is there?
I’m not quite clear what we’re discussing though… ?
1. I am refuting the claim that the sole reason the buffalo almost went extinct was because of efforts to control natives? It’s a fallacy.
2. I’m proving is that the migration/forced adaption of people is NORMAL, and has occurred in very recent history.
those are the points I wish to convey that relate to the climate change discussion….
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**HOLY ******
FYI - those are Bison skulls if you didn’t know…
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2. I’m proving is that the migration/forced adaption of people is NORMAL, and has occurred in very recent history.
those are the points I wish to convey that relate to the climate change discussion….
So why can’t reduction in carbon emissions in order to preserve the current climatic system be part of the adaptation process? Kind of like trying to preserve the Buffalo from extinction?
Doesn’t that seem like the rational choice?
Please explain your opposition to this course of action, it seems completely in congruence with your perspective.
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I read this article this morning and thought of this thread.
The Register is a British IT/Science ‘rag’ somewhat off the wall but often an interesting source of news with usually a science/technology twist.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/06/climate_change_articles_survey/
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Saw this today and thought it was relevant to our discussion: Global warming ended 15 years ago?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2217286/Global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago-reveals-Met-Office-report-quietly-released–chart-prove-it.html
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/13212-global-climate-warming-stopped-15-years-ago-uk-met-office-admits
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcrut4/ -
Since 1880, when reliable temperature records began to be kept across most of the globe, the world has warmed by about 0.75 degrees Celsius.
From the start of 1997 until August 2012, however, figures released last week show the answer is zero: the trend, derived from the aggregate data collected from more than 3,000 worldwide measuring points, has been flat.
Well folks, the science doesn’t lie?
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:roll: Can’t let this nonsense go and since I addressed this already in my first post with the “pre-emptive strike link.” Either argument 5 or 9 or 52.
Direct link to 52 which illustrates the statistical lie trying to be called a scientific one: http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-cooling-january-2007-to-january-2008.htm
Oh and there’s this: http://www.skepticalscience.com/misleading-daily-mail-prebunked-nuccitelli-et-al-2012.html
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Check your sea-ice data Garg. Lowest in recorded history by far this last year. (Continuing the trend since record began.) Blew the scary science predictions away.
Also, you still haven’t addressed my suggestion/question. It seem sliek you want to help multiple opinions here:
- You admit that climate change is occurring but state that there is no reasonable way to fix it
then when someone presents a reasonable way to fix it you revert back to:
- Climate change is not occurring.
Please address this for the sake of your scientific discussion.
P.S. The sea-ice data records are quite good. They record is actually maintained by the US department of defence. They needed an accurate record of sea-ice thickness at the north pole so that they could strategically place nuclear submarines as close to Russia as possible while still allowing the subs a thin enough ice pack to surface for oxygen.
So someone that has NO interest in distorting the data has been keeping an eye on this one since the early seventies. (The science doesn’t lie.)
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
Check it every day if you like. They update it every 24 hours.
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PS
nice debunk frimmel
My guess is that Garg will conveniently choose not to address this or admit that his statistic was silly.
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We have done this discussion many times. Let me sum it up for you:
This is the one time in history - IN HISTORY MIND YOU!!! - that NCSCSwitch and I agreed on ANYTHING! The universe almost imploded on itself. Some might say it both exploded and imploded simultaniously having a complete negation on each other - we do not know. What we know is, Herr Switch and I agreed on this topic way back in, what, 2000? I know it was around the time of the election then, maybe it was 2001, dunno…go look it up. Very lively debate, was a lot of fun and then I beat the ever living SNOT out of Herr Switch in a game of KJF - AA Revised! Hillarious!
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Oh and there’s this: http://www.skepticalscience.com/misleading-daily-mail-prebunked-nuccitelli-et-al-2012.html
Interesting…
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I love this graphic…
http://www.skepticalscience.com/pics/SkepticsvRealistsv3.gif
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@Cmdr:
We have done this discussion many times. Let me sum it up for you:
This is the one time in history - IN HISTORY MIND YOU!!! - that NCSCSwitch and I agreed on ANYTHING! The universe almost imploded on itself.
Okay, so climate science tells us that humans need to cease pumping carbon into the atmosphere or we’ll bring about calamity for much if not all of humanity.
Switch and Jenn are/were in agreement that we don’t need to worry about how much carbon humans are pumping into the atmosphere.
Switch and Jenn in agreement is to be seen as a sign of the impending apocalypse.
Does that fit the definition of irony?
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Oh my gods, we are all going to die!
And with the segue we have this article…
Last month ties for WARMEST September on RECORD
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/15/ncdc_september_2012_report/
For people like Switch and Jenn. An honest question of them to ask is: What would it take to convince you?
I don’t believe in magic, but if some dude snapped his finger and I was rich and had a harem and more importantly my girlfriend DIDN’T mind, then I would change my mind and declare I believe in magic.
I wonder how many of the those who are labelled as deniers of man made effect have as their premise that god will keep things in check so no amount of proof is enough. Much like the belief in God, no amount of proof to the contrary matters as the belief transcends proof. I think the rest believe man has an effect but is small or not dangerous.
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Check your sea-ice data Garg. Lowest in recorded history by far this last year. (Continuing the trend since record began.) Blew the scary science predictions away.
Also, you still haven’t addressed my suggestion/question. It seem sliek you want to help multiple opinions here:
- You admit that climate change is occurring but state that there is no reasonable way to fix it
then when someone presents a reasonable way to fix it you revert back to:
- Climate change is not occurring.
Please address this for the sake of your scientific discussion.
P.S. The sea-ice data records are quite good. They record is actually maintained by the US department of defence. They needed an accurate record of sea-ice thickness at the north pole so that they could strategically place nuclear submarines as close to Russia as possible while still allowing the subs a thin enough ice pack to surface for oxygen.
So someone that has NO interest in distorting the data has been keeping an eye on this one since the early seventies. (The science doesn’t lie.)
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
Check it every day if you like. They update it every 24 hours.
Great website Canuck! As a realist though, I am dissappointed that you only cherry pick what you want to see.
Let me quote the first paragraph of news from YOUR source.
The sun has set over the central Arctic Ocean and sea ice extent is now increasing. While much attention has been paid to the record minimum Arctic ice extent set on September 16, 2012, winter sea ice extent in Antarctica has reached a record high. The Antarctic extent increase is an interesting response to changes in circulation patterns in the Southern Hemisphere.
This really says everything I need to know. Â All the attention of the Frimmels of the world are freaking out about artic record lows, whilst ignoring a clear polar/cold shift to antarctica which is setting recor highs. (It’s this entire continent of mostly ice if you didn’t know).
1. The Science doesn’t lie
2. This is from your totally objective and uber source
3. An entire continent of ice is growing in the southern hemisphere setting record highs AND NO ONE including yourself is talking about it!
Whats the bottom line you ask? Your source kindly points it out.
“While much attention has been paid…”
Instead of looking at the whole picture, as a realist like me, some ice caps growing, some melting, things changing as they have for billions of years, the attention of the world is being force fed cherry picked information.
Why do you have to cherry pick - if the information is simply the truth?
And how does an entire growing continent of ice, fit into your global sea temperatures are astronomically rising models?
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HOLY SH*T GUYS!
Antarcitca has been growing by 1% on average every year since 1979!
It’s growing at something like 16,000 Square KM’s EVERY YEAR!
We’re all going to die! It’s a NEW Ice age! The science doesn’t lie!
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Sigh. Pre-emptive strike link again. Argument number 10 and argument 113.
Direct link to number 10: http://www.skepticalscience.com/antarctica-gaining-ice-basic.htm
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10 and 113 tend to contradict each other……until you read in detail that is…
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Nice post Frimm,
Did you read it Garg?
Also, you still haven’t addressed the Carbon tax….
I know you really really want to hold both positions: (Climate change is happening but there’s nothing we can do about it AND Climate change isn’t happening.) But you’re going to have to reconcile with yourself at some point.
So, Carbon tax:
- Clear, market based, adaptation that humans should make to ensure the long-term survivability of the planet for most organisms that we care about, including ourselves.
OR
- Frivolous waste of energy (even if economically efficient) because climate change doesn’t matter and will have less of an effect on the planet than a carbon tax would.
What do you think?
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So, Carbon tax:
- Frivolous waste of energy (even if economically efficient) because climate change doesn’t matter and will have less of an effect on the planet than a carbon tax would.
Can’t speak for Garg but I go with No. 2. I would not phrase it as you have done, but (2) is much nearer my sentiment than (1). Carbon tax is just a bad idea, unless of course you believe in economic redistribution and/or that we need to take any and all immediate action to thwart our impending doom from a changing climate. If we fundamentally disagree, as I believe we do, then my perspective of (concern over) this tax is threefold: 1) unnecessary and economically harmful, 2) shifts national sovereignty and economic resources to a global pool and 3) would likely be “unfair” or inequitable.
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