Tank purchases still DEAD

[toblerone77]

@ghr2:

Duel purpose aa guns,  have each aa gun the ability to choose to shoot at either air, or mechs/tanks.Â

Something like that. after they are “anti-aircraft artillery”

[toblerone77]

Ahh well back on topic… I don’t think tanks are all that dead. I agree they aren’t the star they used to be. In all the games I play, which aren’t as many as I  would like, they are bought a lot still. If I had a huge gripe with a lot of the new rules, tanks probably wouldn’t be where I would start the edit fest.

[Derek]

The AA guns in this game would not have the ability to shoot at ground units.

ALL grounds units have their own built in AA (else they wouldn’t be downing aircraft on a regular basis)
The AA guns in this game are more a heavy static defense working in concert with dozens of radar installations and aircraft spotters, over a large area. They would not be able to ‘run and gun’ as do most units. They take too much time to setup.

I actually prefer the old AA mechanics, it seems like they were changed as a cheap/easy way to balance G40 and now they include the new AAA units as another way to entice customers.
I really don’t like the IC/bases AA mechanics

[Omega1759]

@toblerone77:

Ahh well back on topic… I don’t think tanks are all that dead. I agree they aren’t the star they used to be. In all the games I play, which aren’t as many as I  would like, they are bought a lot still. If I had a huge gripe with a lot of the new rules, tanks probably wouldn’t be where I would start the edit fest.

Tanks add significant punch / defense power to a stack. The problem is to be able to afford them. I place tanks on the UK minors since capacity is typically limited and mobility is valuable. In later German turns, I start adding 1 or 2 tanks a turn (and more if a tank purchase can force Russia to turtle down sooner with Allied air having no choice but to fly in and sit in Moscow)

[ghr2]

Would you rather be attacking with 10 tanks and 8 mechs or 16 tanks?

[toblerone77]

I think the combined arms element of the newer editions is pretty cool. The implementation of artillery alone has made the game more interesting. I’d rather have the new stats than go back to the old 2-3-2-5 formula. 2-3-3-6 isn’t all that bad but it does trim some tank purchasing down for the Allies IMO.

[Derek]

I think mechs should be 2-1-1-3 but can be supported by either an armor or an arty for +1 attack. Still could blitz with armor at 1:1

I think arty should cost 5 but could support any ground unit (including armor excluding other arty) still at a 1:1

[gamerman01]

@ghr2:

Would you rather be attacking with 10 tanks and 8 mechs or 16 tanks?

Don’t you mean NINE mechs??

[toblerone77]

@Uncrustable:

I think mechs should be 2-1-1-3 but can be supported by either an armor or an arty for +1 attack. Still could blitz with armor at 1:1

I think arty should cost 5 but could support any ground unit (including armor excluding other arty) still at a 1:1

I’m thinking maybe we’re going to see some self-propelled artillery in the future. I think thers some merit to your proposal.

[ghr2]

@Gamerman01:

@ghr2:

Would you rather be attacking with 10 tanks and 8 mechs or 16 tanks?

Don’t you mean NINE mechs??

let me check my math, hold on

[ghr2]

@ghr2:

@Gamerman01:

@ghr2:

Would you rather be attacking with 10 tanks and 8 mechs or 16 tanks?

Don’t you mean NINE mechs??

let me check my math, hold on

Ya derp, 9 tanks, lol

[gamerman01]

@ghr2:

@Gamerman01:

@ghr2:

Would you rather be attacking with 10 tanks and 8 mechs or 16 tanks?

Don’t you mean NINE mechs??

let me check my math, hold on

84 = 32
66 = 36
9*4= 36
:-)

[gamerman01]

@ghr2:

Ya derp, 9 tanks, lol

No, 9 MECHS  :lol:
Don’t play today, ok?  :wink:

[ghr2]

@Gamerman01:

@ghr2:

Ya derp, 9 tanks, lol

No, 9 MECHS  :lol:
Don’t play today, ok?  :wink:

Sry, I am so sick I can’t think straight.  Anyway, 10 tanks and 9 mechs attack with better odds than 16 tanks.  You need a healthy combination of tanks and mechs if you want to maximize your damage.

[Derek]

@Uncrustable:

The AA guns in this game would not have the ability to shoot at ground units.

ALL grounds units have their own built in AA (else they wouldn’t be downing aircraft on a regular basis)
The AA guns in this game are more a heavy static defense working in concert with dozens of radar installations and aircraft spotters, over a large area. They would not be able to ‘run and gun’ as do most units. They take too much time to setup.

I actually prefer the old AA mechanics, it seems like they were changed as a cheap/easy way to balance G40 and now they include the new AAA units as another way to entice customers.
I really don’t like the IC/bases AA mechanics

One more thing on AA, i really dont like that AA guns do not shoot at enemy flyovers

Let AA guns shoot whenever an enemy plane enters the tt, regardless on if those planes are attacking or not.

[toblerone77]

@Uncrustable:

@Uncrustable:

The AA guns in this game would not have the ability to shoot at ground units.

ALL grounds units have their own built in AA (else they wouldn’t be downing aircraft on a regular basis)
The AA guns in this game are more a heavy static defense working in concert with dozens of radar installations and aircraft spotters, over a large area. They would not be able to ‘run and gun’ as do most units. They take too much time to setup.

I actually prefer the old AA mechanics, it seems like they were changed as a cheap/easy way to balance G40 and now they include the new AAA units as another way to entice customers.
I really don’t like the IC/bases AA mechanics

One more thing on AA, i really dont like that AA guns do not shoot at enemy flyovers

Let AA guns shoot whenever an enemy plane enters the tt, regardless on if those planes are attacking or not.

I thought that was the rule in some editions.

[Derek]

Not since revised I don’t think
It should be like that in all editions
It adds value, gives more reason to be purchased

[baron Münchhausen]

@Uncrustable:

Not since revised I don’t think
It should be like that in all editions
It adds value, gives more reason to be purchased

AAA have 1 out of 6 chance to hit anyone aircraft (max: up to 3 aircrafts/ AAA).
I read somewhere that the real effectiveness was around 1/10.
So, giving a preemptive strike to AAA on any aircraft attacking a territory is already a greater advantage that they should have.
Of course, it is quite annoying seeing them on the side after the first cycle of battle. But you should tell yourself it has done more than it would normally.

Maybe, if you accept to give up the preemptive strike on 3 planes on the first cycle and considering AAA as part of the regular phase but still attacking @1 on up to 3 planes.
It could be acceptable (keeping a balance) on the other round to let each individual AAA after first round making 1@1 against an aircraft.

It seems a simple  compromise. I changed my mind. See on the other tread.

[Derek]

No baron this will not turn into spaghetti at the wall

The original AA gun (official rules) was not OP ftw
It just added another element to the game, and AA guns played a larger role in the game
Players had to either plan aircraft routes around AA sites or risk the dice on flyovers
You used to need an AA gun to defend against SBR

Now AA is just battle fodder and an afterthought, an almost worthless piece on the board

[baron Münchhausen]

@Uncrustable:

No baron this will not turn into spaghetti at the wall   :-D

The original AA gun (official rules) was not OP ftw
It just added another element to the game, and AA guns played a larger role in the game
Players had to either plan aircraft routes around AA sites or risk the dice on flyovers
You used to need an AA gun to defend against SBR

Now AA is just battle fodder and an afterthought, an almost worthless piece on the board

Hi Uncrustable,
What does mean

OP ftw?

Out of Proportion Fighters Weapon?  :-D

You used to need an AA gun to defend against SBR

It is still the case even if they are in-built with the new IC.
I don’t understand what you mean.

What was the older rule?
Is it something like during combat move all planes passing over a territory with AA gun get 1@1 shot?
Under non-combat move, there is no AA fire.

I would like to throw spaghetti at the wall…  :roll:
Don’t you?

As I said:

AAA have 1 out of 6 chance to hit anyone aircraft (max: up to 3 aircrafts/ AAA).
I read somewhere that the real effectiveness was around 1/10.

I would like to make an AAA defense (and make it more useful and adding this element on attack) when Planes pass over a territory to get to another.
But 2 AAA @1 for each aircraft means 11/36 chance to kill each aircraft.
It becomes far from historical reality.
Maybe with a 12 sides dice. Each AAA kill on 1/12.
You can easely allow 1 first strike shot and even continuous firing @1 for each AAA after first round.

But to leap from 1/6 to 11/36 for every plane is a huge gap.

Aircrafts cost a lot and on a 1 on 1 basis casuality almost lose more; so they need ground/ocean support.
(StrB = Cruiser (TacB and Fgt) > DD / TT/ Subs/ Arm /AAA/ Art / MecInf /Inf)
Only Carrier and Battleship are really more expensive.

That’s why I think most player prefer the actual rule and accept the fatal “1” and first strike.

If you wish to answer, I suggest to go to the other tread on AA.
This post will be there also.

I don’t want to derail it more than it is.