BotA U-505 vs. Pug

[U-505]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.7

Game History

Round :14

Combat Move - OttomanEmpire
            1 Fusiliers moved from Tarsus to Antioch
                  OttomanEmpire take Antioch from Russia
            1 Fusiliers moved from Armenia to Edessa
                  OttomanEmpire take Edessa from Russia
            2 Frigates moved from SZ92 to SZ97
            1 Barque moved from SZ95 to SZ96
            1 Fusiliers moved from Sinop to SZ96
            1 Barque and 1 Fusiliers moved from SZ96 to SZ97
            1 Fusiliers moved from SZ97 to Astrakahn
            1 Barque moved from SZ99 to SZ96
            1 Fusiliers moved from Sinop to SZ96
            1 Barque and 1 Fusiliers moved from SZ96 to SZ97
            1 Fusiliers moved from SZ97 to Astrakahn
            1 Brigantine moved from SZ74 to SZ73
                  OttomanEmpire take SZ73 from UnitedKingdom
            1 Brigantine moved from SZ73 to SZ74
            2 Chasseurss and 1 Fusiliers moved from Armenia to Edessa

Purchase Units - OttomanEmpire
            OttomanEmpire buy 2 Dragoonss, 3 Fusilierss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 1 Marshal; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - OttomanEmpire
            Battle in Astrakahn
                OttomanEmpire attack with 2 Fusilierss
                Russia defend with 1 Grenadiers
                    OttomanEmpire roll dice for 2 Frigates in Astrakahn, round 1 :  1/0 hits
                    1 Grenadiers owned by the Russia lost in Astrakahn
                OttomanEmpire win, taking Astrakahn from Russia with 2 Fusilierss remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Russia: 1 Grenadiers

Non Combat Move - OttomanEmpire
            1 Fusiliers moved from Sinop to Lazes
            1 Hussars moved from Constantinople to Sinop
            1 Chasseurs moved from Albania to SZ79
            1 Marines moved from Thessaly to SZ79
            1 Barque, 1 Chasseurs and 1 Marines moved from SZ79 to SZ82
            1 Marines moved from Constantinople to Kiutayeh
            1 Fusiliers moved from Anatolia to Sinop
            2 Marshals moved from Anatolia to Tarsus
            2 Dragoonss, 6 Horse_Artillerys and 2 Hussarss moved from Armenia to Tarsus
            8 Chasseurss and 1 Fusiliers moved from Armenia to Lazes
            1 Howitzer moved from Tarsus to Lazes

Place Units - OttomanEmpire
            2 Dragoonss and 1 Horse_Artillery placed in Anatolia
            3 Fusilierss and 1 Marshal placed in Constantinople

Turn Complete - OttomanEmpire
            OttomanEmpire collect 34 PUs; end with 34 PUs total

Territory Summary for OttomanEmpire :

Tarsus : 1 flag, 2 Dragoonss, 6 Horse_Artillerys, 2 Hussarss and 2 Marshals
    Astrakahn : 1 flag, 2 Fusilierss
    SZ82 : 1 flag, 1 Barque, 1 Chasseurs and 1 Marines
    SZ98 : 1 flag
    Armenia : 1 flag
    Midian : 1 flag
    Lazes : 1 flag, 1 Artillery, 17 Chasseurss, 8 Fusilierss, 2 Howitzers, 1 Marines and 1 Mortars
    Georgia : 1 flag
    SZ97 : 1 flag, 2 Barques and 2 Frigates
    Antioch : 1 flag, 1 Fusiliers
    SZ92 : 1 flag, 1 Barque
    Constantinople : 1 flag, 1 Capital, 7 Fortresss, 3 Fusilierss, 1 Marshal and 25 Mortella_Towers
    Sinop : 1 flag, 1 Fusiliers and 1 Hussars
    Edessa : 1 flag, 2 Chasseurss and 2 Fusilierss
    SZ73 : 1 flag
    Kiutayeh : 1 flag, 1 Marines
    Candia : 1 flag, 1 Encampment and 1 Mortella_Tower
    SZ74 : 1 flag, 1 Brigantine
    Anatolia : 1 flag, 2 Dragoonss, 1 General, 1 Horse_Artillery and 1 Mortella_Tower
    Thessaly : 1 flag, 1 Marines

Production/PUs Summary :

France : 61 / 57
    UnitedKingdom : 43 / 44
    Spain : 40 / 36
    KingdomOfPrussia : 32 / 33
    Sweden : 26 / 29
    AustrianEmpire : 36 / 36
    OttomanEmpire : 34 / 34
    Russia : 47 / 50

[U-505]

@pug6000:

This game is a perfect example for one of the main principles of the game.

The Coalitions strength and weakness are the joined forces. They will always fight in a joined group. It’s perfect for defence, good for advance, but it’s horrible for a decisive attack.

The Carolingians are always on their own. Their own allies cant help them. They really have a hard time defending, but when it comes to a big fight, they are better as all forces are of one nation.

@Veqryn:

i tune in every couple days and there are always interesting developments

i knew going spain was a possibility for the coalition, but i didn’t think you’d do it unless you could take the capital

I’m not sure he had a choice. I left him with 2 equally distasteful options. Either go for Spain or back out of Champagne. Because of the combination of strengths and weaknesses pug mentioned above as well as France’s large production capacity, France could afford to build nothing but guns for quite a few turns and still maintain the defense of Paris while rapidly increasing their offensive abilities. I calculated about 2 or 3 more turns before I could force him back.

I think he went for Spain because they were in a very tight struggle with the English in the Med and Spain had a couple important advantages. First, Spain had a 6 to 4 naval production capacity edge in addition to a slightly larger navy. Second, Spain could spend their entire income to fight the English while England couldn’t because France was making minor landings in UK which made him divert some of England’s income to defense. If Spain was able to break through the English naval wall, they could eventually aid the Ottomans against the Russians and/or pressure Austria through Italy.

I have to say, I’m enjoying this game very much. It isn’t often I play a game that is so contentious against a fantastic opponent. My A&A games tend to end up being one sided because of the dice.

[pug6000]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.7

Game History

Round :14

Combat Move - Russia
            1 Hussars moved from Jordan to Midian
                  Russia take Midian from OttomanEmpire
            1 Hussars moved from Midian to Palestine
            2 Cuirassierss and 2 Horse_Artillerys moved from Jordan to Palestine
            1 Cuirassiers, 7 Dragoonss, 2 Fusilierss and 2 Horse_Artillerys moved from Syria to Palestine
            3 Dragoonss and 1 Horse_Artillery moved from Moscovia to Mordvins
            2 Fusilierss moved from Odessa to Mordvins
            1 Grenadiers moved from Mordvins to Astrakahn
            1 Hussars moved from Mordvins to SZ101
            1 Hussars moved from SZ101 to Astrakahn
            1 Hussars moved from Syria to Palestine
            1 Cuirassiers and 1 Dragoons moved from Novgorod to Kazan

Purchase Units - Russia
            Russia buy 1 Cutter, 2 Frigates, 3 Fusilierss and 1 Mortars; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - Russia
            Battle in Palestine
                Russia attack with 3 Cuirassierss, 7 Dragoonss, 2 Fusilierss, 4 Horse_Artillerys and 2 Hussarss
                Neutral defend with 2 Fusilierss
                    Russia roll dice for 3 Cuirassierss, 7 Dragoonss, 2 Fusilierss, 4 Horse_Artillerys and 2 Hussarss in Palestine, round 1 :  5/1 hits
                    Neutral roll dice for 2 Fusilierss in Palestine, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 Hussars owned by the Russia and 2 Fusilierss owned by the Neutral lost in Palestine
                Russia win, taking Palestine from Neutral with 3 Cuirassierss, 7 Dragoonss, 2 Fusilierss, 4 Horse_Artillerys and 1 Hussars remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Neutral: 2 Fusilierss
                Casualties for Russia: 1 Hussars
            Battle in Astrakahn
                Russia attack with 1 Grenadiers and 1 Hussars
                OttomanEmpire defend with 2 Fusilierss
                    Russia roll dice for 1 Battleship in Astrakahn, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 Fusiliers owned by the OttomanEmpire lost in Astrakahn
                    Russia roll dice for 1 Grenadiers and 1 Hussars in Astrakahn, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    OttomanEmpire roll dice for 1 Fusiliers in Astrakahn, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    Russia roll dice for 1 Grenadiers and 1 Hussars in Astrakahn, round 2 :  1/1 hits
                    OttomanEmpire roll dice for 1 Fusiliers in Astrakahn, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    1 Fusiliers owned by the OttomanEmpire lost in Astrakahn
                Russia win, taking Astrakahn from OttomanEmpire with 1 Grenadiers and 1 Hussars remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
                Casualties for OttomanEmpire: 2 Fusilierss

Non Combat Move - Russia

Place Units - Russia
            1 Cutter and 2 Frigates placed in SZ2
            1 Fusiliers and 1 Mortars placed in Mordvins
            2 Fusilierss placed in Odessa

Turn Complete - Russia
            Russia collect 50 PUs; end with 50 PUs total

Territory Summary for Russia :

SZ2 : 1 flag, 3 Barques, 1 Brigantine, 3 Cutters and 2 Frigates
    SZ101 : 1 flag, 1 Barque and 1 Battleship
    Astrakahn : 1 flag, 1 Grenadiers and 1 Hussars
    Wallachia : 1 flag
    Mordvins : 1 flag, 2 Cuirassierss, 10 Dragoonss, 1 Encampment, 5 Fusilierss, 6 Horse_Artillerys, 1 Hussars and 3 Mortarss
    Midian : 1 flag
    Tsaritsyn : 1 flag, 1 Hussars
    Kazan : 1 flag, 1 Cuirassiers and 1 Dragoons
    Minsk : 1 flag, 1 Fortress
    Odessa : 1 flag, 1 Cuirassiers, 7 Dragoonss, 2 Fusilierss, 1 General, 4 Horse_Artillerys and 2 Kutusovs
    Novgorod : 1 flag, 3 Artillerys, 1 Chasseurs, 3 Fusilierss, 1 General, 1 Grenadiers and 1 Howitzer
    Karelia : 1 flag
    Kirghix : 1 flag
    Finland : 1 flag, 4 Dragoonss, 1 Encampment, 1 Fusiliers, 2 Horse_Artillerys, 1 Marines and 3 Mortella_Towers
    Crimea : 1 flag, 1 Fusiliers
    Macedonia : 1 flag
    Serbia : 1 flag
    Jordan : 1 flag
    SZ103 : 1 flag, 1 Barque
    Bulgaria : 1 flag, 3 Fusilierss
    Moscovia : 1 flag, 1 Capital and 1 Mortella_Tower
    Palestine : 1 flag, 3 Cuirassierss, 7 Dragoonss, 2 Fusilierss, 4 Horse_Artillerys and 1 Hussars
    Moldavia : 1 flag
    Syria : 1 flag
    Bessarabia : 1 flag

Production/PUs Summary :

France : 61 / 57
    UnitedKingdom : 43 / 44
    Spain : 40 / 36
    KingdomOfPrussia : 32 / 33
    Sweden : 26 / 29
    AustrianEmpire : 36 / 36
    OttomanEmpire : 32 / 34
    Russia : 50 / 50

Dice Statistics:

Total
            1 was rolled 1 times
            2 was rolled 1 times
            4 was rolled 3 times
            6 was rolled 2 times
        Average roll : 3,857
        Median : 4,000
        Variance : 1,167
        Standard Deviation : 1,080
        Total rolls : 7

OttomanEmpire Combat
            4 was rolled 2 times
        Average roll : 4,000
        Median : 4,000
        Variance : 4,000
        Standard Deviation : 2,000
        Total rolls : 2

Neutral Combat
            4 was rolled 1 times
        Average roll : 4,000
        Median : 4,000
        Variance : ?
        Standard Deviation : ?
        Total rolls : 1

Russia Combat
            1 was rolled 1 times
            2 was rolled 1 times
            6 was rolled 2 times
        Average roll : 3,750
        Median : 4,000
        Variance : 2,000
        Standard Deviation : 1,414
        Total rolls : 4

[pug6000]

I know I should better keep my mouth shut and not disclose my thoughts, but this discussion is too tempting  :-)

@Veqryn:

i tune in every couple days and there are always interesting developments

i knew going spain was a possibility for the coalition, but i didn’t think you’d do it unless you could take the capital

@U-505:

I’m not sure he had a choice. I left him with 2 equally distasteful options. Either go for Spain or back out of Champagne. Because of the combination of strengths and weaknesses pug mentioned above as well as France’s large production capacity, France could afford to build nothing but guns for quite a few turns and still maintain the defense of Paris while rapidly increasing their offensive abilities. I calculated about 2 or 3 more turns before I could force him back.

I think he went for Spain because they were in a very tight struggle with the English in the Med and Spain had a couple important advantages. First, Spain had a 6 to 4 naval production capacity edge in addition to a slightly larger navy. Second, Spain could spend their entire income to fight the English while England couldn’t because France was making minor landings in UK which made him divert some of England’s income to defense. If Spain was able to break through the English naval wall, they could eventually aid the Ottomans against the Russians and/or pressure Austria through Italy.

You are both right, but you are missing a few points.

1. Till last round I always had the chance to take Madrid.
2. I had the chance to hold Champagne for at least 2 more rounds.

Still U-505 got it right - the Med was in danger and I wanted to increase my chances to win in that area. So I moved towards Spain. The question was: what could he do. He had to follow with the French army to threaten to retake Madrid.

So far you are more or less right. Now comes the interesting part. You dont have to take the capital to destroy a country. If I stay in Spain, Spain is crippled. It looses most of it’s income and UK has all time it wants to gain control of the seas.

Here I should better stop and wait for the next Spanish move to continue the explanation. There is one more important point, but I am curious about the French and Spanish move. So far U-505 was really good to anticipate my plans, so I wonder if he again knows what I am up to  :-)

[U-505]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.7

Game History

Round :15

Combat Move - France
            6 Artillerys, 5 Chasseurss, 29 Fusilierss, 2 Grenadierss and 20 Howitzers moved from Gascony to Navarre
                  Spain take Navarre from KingdomOfPrussia
            1 Hussars moved from Languedoc to Aragon
            1 Hussars moved from Languedoc to Aragon
            1 Dragoons moved from Languedoc to Aragon
            1 Horse_Artillery moved from Languedoc to Aragon
            1 Hussars moved from Burgundy to Valais
                  France take Valais from KingdomOfPrussia
            1 Hussars moved from Valais to Provence
            2 Battleships moved from SZ33 to SZ41
            1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines moved from Wessex to SZ34
            1 Barque, 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines moved from SZ34 to SZ41
            1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines moved from SZ41 to Galacia

Purchase Units - France
            France buy 1 Brigantine, 10 Fusilierss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 1 Hussars; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - France
            Battle in Galacia
                France attack with 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines
                UnitedKingdom defend with 1 Dragoons
                    France roll dice for 2 Battleships in Galacia, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 Dragoons owned by the UnitedKingdom lost in Galacia
                France win, taking Galacia from UnitedKingdom with 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for UnitedKingdom: 1 Dragoons
            Battle in Aragon
                France attack with 1 Dragoons, 1 Horse_Artillery and 2 Hussarss
                UnitedKingdom defend with 1 Fusiliers
                    France roll dice for 1 Dragoons, 1 Horse_Artillery and 2 Hussarss in Aragon, round 1 :  1/0 hits
                    KingdomOfPrussia roll dice for 1 Fusiliers in Aragon, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 Fusiliers owned by the UnitedKingdom and 1 Hussars owned by the France lost in Aragon
                France win, taking Aragon from KingdomOfPrussia with 1 Dragoons, 1 Horse_Artillery and 1 Hussars remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for France: 1 Hussars
                Casualties for UnitedKingdom: 1 Fusiliers

Non Combat Move - France
            1 Dragoons moved from Languedoc to Provence
            1 Dragoons moved from Languedoc to Champagne
            1 Dragoons moved from Burgundy to Champagne
            1 Hussars moved from Burgundy to Champagne
            1 Hussars moved from Auvergne to Champagne
            1 Hussars moved from Gascony to Champagne
            1 Hussars moved from Languedoc to Champagne
            1 Horse_Artillery moved from Burgundy to Catalonia
            1 Cuirassiers moved from Orleanais to Gascony
            7 Fusilierss moved from Orleanais to Champagne
            1 Fusiliers moved from Flanders to Champagne
            1 Hussars moved from Languedoc to Champagne
            4 Horse_Artillerys and 3 Hussarss moved from Languedoc to Valencia
            1 Chasseurs and 1 Marines moved from Wessex to SZ34
            1 Chasseurs and 1 Marines moved from SZ34 to Brittany
            1 Cutter moved from SZ34 to SZ29
            1 Battleship and 3 Corvettes moved from SZ33 to SZ35

Place Units - France
            1 Brigantine placed in SZ34
            10 Fusilierss placed in Orleanais
            1 Horse_Artillery and 1 Hussars placed in Brittany

Turn Complete - France
            France collect 62 PUs; end with 62 PUs total
            Objective Balancing Convoy Income for balanced game: France met a national objective for an additional -6 PUs; end with 56 PUs

Territory Summary for France :

Valencia : 1 flag, 4 Horse_Artillerys and 3 Hussarss
    North Wales : 1 flag
    SZ35 : 1 flag, 1 Battleship and 3 Corvettes
    SZ28 : 1 flag
    SZ41 : 1 flag, 1 Barque and 2 Battleships
    Lazes : 1 flag, 1 Ney
    SZ29 : 1 flag, 3 Battleships, 6 Brigantines, 3 Corvettes and 8 Cutters
    Flanders : 1 flag
    Egypt : 1 flag
    SZ34 : 1 flag, 1 Barque and 1 Brigantine
    Aragon : 1 flag, 1 Dragoons, 1 Horse_Artillery and 1 Hussars
    Wessex : 1 flag
    Orleanais : 1 flag, 1 Capital, 10 Fusilierss and 3 Mortella_Towers
    Sinai : 1 flag
    Catalonia : 1 flag, 1 Horse_Artillery
    Gascony : 1 flag, 1 Cuirassiers
    Provence : 1 flag, 2 Dragoonss and 1 Hussars
    Galacia : 1 flag, 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines
    Leinster : 1 flag
    Brittany : 1 flag, 1 Chasseurs, 1 Fortress, 1 Fusiliers, 1 General, 1 Horse_Artillery, 1 Hussars and 1 Marines
    Navarre : 1 flag, 6 Artillerys, 5 Chasseurss, 29 Fusilierss, 2 Grenadierss and 20 Howitzers
    Champagne : 1 flag, 10 Chasseurss, 2 Dragoonss, 17 Fusilierss, 1 Howitzer and 5 Hussarss
    Ulster : 1 flag

Production/PUs Summary :

France : 62 / 56
    UnitedKingdom : 41 / 44
    Spain : 45 / 36
    KingdomOfPrussia : 28 / 33
    Sweden : 26 / 29
    AustrianEmpire : 36 / 36
    OttomanEmpire : 32 / 34
    Russia : 50 / 50

[U-505]

@pug6000:

1. Till last round I always had the chance to take Madrid.

Yes, I accepted that. Which is why I didn’t try to defend it until I was absolutely sure that you were moving on it.

2. I had the chance to hold Champagne for at least 2 more rounds.

I figured 3 rounds. But, I was prepared to start building French mortars to speed up the process.

Still U-505 got it right - the Med was in danger and I wanted to increase my chances to win in that area. So I moved towards Spain. The question was: what could he do. He had to follow with the French army to threaten to retake Madrid.

I agree. It was the best move. Even if the French can finally remove your army from Spain, they will be left with a pile of units that are too far away from anything to be useful for many turns.

So far you are more or less right. Now comes the interesting part. You dont have to take the capital to destroy a country. If I stay in Spain, Spain is crippled. It looses most of it’s income and UK has all time it wants to gain control of the seas.

I agree again. If you had taken Madrid, I had planned to use the French cavalry to threaten Rome and help the Spanish hold the Med while the rest of the French army finished off the Coalition army in Spain. By not taking Madrid and keeping your combined army intact, you have forced me to make a distasteful choice of my own. I now have to send my cavalry to Spain and I have no choice but to retreat the Spanish navy and give the English back all of the gains and more that my navy made in the last few rounds.

Here I should better stop and wait for the next Spanish move to continue the explanation. There is one more important point, but I am curious about the French and Spanish move. So far U-505 was really good to anticipate my plans, so I wonder if he again knows what I am up to  :-)

Well, not taking Lisbon with the Austrian cavalry is my big clue. I believed your intent was to take Lisbon with the English dragoon and then build an encampment there. I have many reasons to think so.

1. The French army is too far away to prevent you from stacking there which gives you time to build up more ground forces to defend it.

2. It immediately threatens the Spanish convoy zone. Another reason I have to retreat my Spanish navy.

3. Prussia and Austria are both locked in tight struggles of their own elsewhere so building and supplying an encampment leaves them lean in their other fights.

4. The English have a lot of disposable income since the French are interdicting their ability to build ships in Essex and not making large landings of troops on the English island to force you to defend it.

The English encampment in Lisbon seems like the logical choice. It makes perfect sense.

[pug6000]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.7

Game History

Round :15

Combat Move - UnitedKingdom
            2 Barques, 2 Battleships and 1 Cutter moved from SZ16 to SZ24
            1 Battleship, 6 Brigantines, 1 Corvette, 11 Cutters and 1 Frigate moved from SZ17 to SZ22
            1 Marines moved from Edinburgh to Cumbria
            1 Artillery, 3 Fusilierss, 1 Howitzer, 6 Mariness and 2 Mortarss moved from Old Castille to Galacia
            1 Dragoons moved from Oxfordshire to Wessex
                  UnitedKingdom take Wessex from France
            1 Dragoons moved from Wessex to Oxfordshire
            2 Fusilierss moved from Oxfordshire to Cheshire

Purchase Units - UnitedKingdom
            UnitedKingdom buy 1 Brigantine, 4 Cutters and 1 Frigate; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - UnitedKingdom
            Battle in Galacia
                UnitedKingdom attack with 1 Artillery, 3 Fusilierss, 1 Howitzer, 6 Mariness and 2 Mortarss
                France defend with 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines
                    UnitedKingdom roll dice for 1 Artillery, 3 Fusilierss, 1 Howitzer, 6 Mariness and 2 Mortarss in Galacia, round 1 :  5/1 hits
                    Spain roll dice for 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines in Galacia, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 Howitzer owned by the UnitedKingdom , 1 Marines owned by the France and 1 Fusiliers owned by the France lost in Galacia
                UnitedKingdom win, taking Galacia from Spain with 1 Artillery, 3 Fusilierss, 6 Mariness and 2 Mortarss remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for France: 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines
                Casualties for UnitedKingdom: 1 Howitzer
            1 General moved from Oxfordshire to Cheshire

Place Units - UnitedKingdom
            1 Brigantine and 1 Cutter placed in SZ30
            3 Cutters and 1 Frigate placed in SZ68

Turn Complete - UnitedKingdom
            UnitedKingdom collect 44 PUs; end with 44 PUs total
            Objective Balancing Convoy Income for balanced game: UnitedKingdom met a national objective for an additional -4 PUs; end with 40 PUs

Territory Summary for UnitedKingdom :

Cumbria : 1 flag, 1 Marines
    Scotland : 1 flag, 1 Fortress
    Corsica : 1 flag
    Cheshire : 1 flag, 2 Fusilierss and 1 General
    SZ69 : 1 flag, 1 Cutter
    SZ68 : 1 flag, 1 Barque, 5 Battleships, 7 Brigantines, 6 Cutters and 1 Frigate
    Cologne : 1 flag
    Sicily : 1 flag
    Essex : 1 flag, 1 Capital, 4 Fusilierss and 5 Mortella_Towers
    Rome : 1 flag, 1 Encampment, 1 Fusiliers, 1 Horse_Artillery, 3 Mariness and 2 Mortella_Towers
    SZ24 : 1 flag, 2 Barques, 2 Battleships and 1 Cutter
    Connaught : 1 flag
    South Wales : 1 flag, 1 Mortella_Tower
    SZ30 : 1 flag, 1 Brigantine and 1 Cutter
    Hanovre : 1 flag, 1 Fortress and 3 Mortella_Towers
    Galacia : 1 flag, 1 Artillery, 3 Fusilierss, 6 Mariness and 2 Mortarss
    Oxfordshire : 1 flag, 1 Artillery, 1 Dragoons and 1 Fusiliers
    SZ22 : 1 flag, 1 Battleship, 6 Brigantines, 1 Corvette, 11 Cutters and 1 Frigate
    Eturia : 1 flag

Production/PUs Summary :

France : 61 / 56
    UnitedKingdom : 44 / 40
    Spain : 43 / 36
    KingdomOfPrussia : 28 / 33
    Sweden : 26 / 29
    AustrianEmpire : 36 / 36
    OttomanEmpire : 32 / 34
    Russia : 50 / 50

[pug6000]

What shall I say … Lisboa was and is my intention. An encampment threatening the convoy zones in that area is a big problem. Spain really depends on that convoy zone.

Normally the Coalition rules the seas the the Carolingians rule the land. This time it’s completly the other way round. And it’s hard to change it … for both.

[Veqryn]

i know pug knows this, but i hope u505 knows this.

that -10 national objective that is hitting spain every turn: it will happen no matter what

if spain loses that convoy, and loses the rest of spain, except her capital, spain will:

make 5 or slightly more each round
then lose 10

ends up with 0 (zero) income (cus you can’t go negative)

think of it like global 1940’s blockades if you want: an american fleet in sea zone 6 can kill all of japan’s “land income”
(this is just to help visualize it, they are different rules for different games)

[U-505]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.7

Game History

Round :15

Combat Move - Spain
            1 Fusiliers moved from New Castille to Estremadura
                  Spain take Estremadura from KingdomOfPrussia
            3 Fusilierss moved from New Castille to Andalusia
            2 Dragoonss and 1 Horse_Artillery moved from Valencia to Andalusia
            2 Mariness moved from Catalonia to SZ57
            2 Frigates and 2 Mariness moved from SZ57 to SZ54
            2 Mariness moved from SZ54 to Andalusia
            2 Mariness moved from Algeria to SZ58
            1 Marines moved from Algeria to SZ58
            1 Barque, 1 Corvette and 3 Mariness moved from SZ58 to SZ54
            3 Mariness moved from SZ54 to Andalusia
            1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs and 1 Mortars moved from Algeria to Areg

Purchase Units - Spain
            Spain buy 1 Chasseurs, 2 Cutters, 2 Fusilierss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 2 Mortella_Towers; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - Spain
            Battle in Andalusia
                Spain attack with 2 Dragoonss, 3 Fusilierss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 5 Mariness
                KingdomOfPrussia defend with 1 Horse_Artillery
                    Spain roll dice for 2 Frigates in Andalusia, round 1 :  1/0 hits
                    1 Horse_Artillery owned by the KingdomOfPrussia lost in Andalusia
                Spain win, taking Andalusia from UnitedKingdom with 2 Dragoonss, 3 Fusilierss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 5 Mariness remaining. Battle score for attacker is 5
                Casualties for KingdomOfPrussia: 1 Horse_Artillery
            Battle in Areg
                Spain attack with 1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs and 1 Mortars
                Neutral defend with 1 Fusiliers
                    Spain roll dice for 1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs and 1 Mortars in Areg, round 1 :  2/1 hits
                    Neutral roll dice for 1 Fusiliers in Areg, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    1 Fusiliers owned by the Neutral lost in Areg
                Spain win, taking Areg from Neutral with 1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs and 1 Mortars remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Neutral: 1 Fusiliers

Non Combat Move - Spain
            1 General moved from Oran to Tangiers
            1 General moved from Algeria to Oran
            1 Barque moved from SZ59 to SZ64
            1 Cuirassiers moved from Sardinia to SZ64
            1 Barque and 1 Cuirassiers moved from SZ64 to SZ60
            1 Battleship, 1 Brigantine, 2 Corvettes, 4 Cutters and 2 Frigates moved from SZ59 to SZ58
            2 Cutters moved from SZ58 to SZ54
            1 Cutter moved from SZ60 to SZ58
            1 Cutter moved from SZ61 to SZ58

Place Units - Spain
            2 Mortella_Towers placed in Majorca
            1 Chasseurs, 2 Fusilierss and 1 Horse_Artillery placed in New Castille
            1 Cutter placed in SZ58
            1 Cutter placed in SZ54

Turn Complete - Spain
            Spain collect 47 PUs; end with 47 PUs total
            Objective Balancing Convoy Income for balanced game: Spain met a national objective for an additional -10 PUs; end with 37 PUs

Territory Summary for Spain :

Sardinia : 1 flag, 2 Fortresss and 3 Mortella_Towers
    SZ64 : 1 flag, 1 Cutter
    SZ61 : 1 flag, 1 Brigantine
    El Erg : 1 flag
    Tangiers : 1 flag, 1 General
    Oran : 1 flag, 1 General
    Alemtejo : 1 flag
    Majorca : 1 flag, 1 Encampment, 1 Fusiliers and 2 Mortella_Towers
    Atlas : 1 flag
    Estremadura : 1 flag, 1 Fusiliers
    Provence : 1 flag
    SZ60 : 1 flag, 1 Barque, 1 Brigantine and 1 Cuirassiers
    SZ59 : 1 flag, 1 Cutter
    SZ54 : 1 flag, 1 Barque, 1 Corvette, 3 Cutters and 2 Frigates
    West Sahara : 1 flag
    Algeria : 1 flag
    SZ58 : 1 flag, 1 Battleship, 1 Brigantine, 2 Corvettes, 7 Cutters and 2 Frigates
    Andalusia : 1 flag, 2 Dragoonss, 3 Fusilierss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 5 Mariness
    Areg : 1 flag, 1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs and 1 Mortars
    New Castille : 1 flag, 1 Capital, 1 Chasseurs, 2 Fusilierss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 20 Mortella_Towers

Production/PUs Summary :

France : 61 / 56
    UnitedKingdom : 42 / 40
    Spain : 47 / 37
    KingdomOfPrussia : 27 / 33
    Sweden : 26 / 29
    AustrianEmpire : 36 / 36
    OttomanEmpire : 32 / 34
    Russia : 50 / 50

[U-505]

@pug6000:

What shall I say … Lisboa was and is my intention. An encampment threatening the convoy zones in that area is a big problem. Spain really depends on that convoy zone.

Yeah, it’s really a pain in the ass having to move my fleet back to protect it.

@Veqryn:

i know pug knows this, but i hope u505 knows this.

that -10 national objective that is hitting spain every turn: it will happen no matter what

if spain loses that convoy, and loses the rest of spain, except her capital, spain will:

make 5 or slightly more each round
then lose 10

ends up with 0 (zero) income (cus you can’t go negative)

think of it like global 1940’s blockades if you want: an american fleet in sea zone 6 can kill all of japan’s “land income”
(this is just to help visualize it, they are different rules for different games)

Pug explained it but it still took a little while to wrap my head around it. Basically, controlling all of your convoy zones doesn’t necessarily mean you get all of your income. Some countries will always have an economic hit no matter what.

[Veqryn]

ya it is a bit confusing, and i am looking at ways of making it simpler for new users

basically, it was a balancing decision

i wanted there to be more territories and convoy income in the game

but i didn’t want spain to be making ~50 or 60 a round

so the solution was to keep the higher amount of income, but then use a negative objective to reduce certain nation’s income so that game would be balanced

[pug6000]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.7

Game History

Round :15

Combat Move - KingdomOfPrussia
            1 Artillery and 1 Fusiliers moved from Mecklenburg to Holstein
            6 Fusilierss moved from Prussia to Pomerania
            1 Fusiliers moved from Posen to Pomerania
            1 Fusiliers moved from Brandenburg to Pomerania
            3 Dragoonss moved from Brandenburg to Pomerania
            1 Chasseurs moved from Mecklenburg to Pomerania
            1 Chasseurs moved from Mecklenburg to Pomerania

Purchase Units - KingdomOfPrussia
            KingdomOfPrussia buy 1 Dragoons, 3 Fusilierss and 3 Horse_Artillerys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - KingdomOfPrussia
            Battle in Holstein
                KingdomOfPrussia attack with 1 Artillery and 1 Fusiliers
                Sweden defend with 1 Fusiliers
                    KingdomOfPrussia roll dice for 1 Artillery and 1 Fusiliers in Holstein, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    Sweden roll dice for 1 Fusiliers in Holstein, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    KingdomOfPrussia roll dice for 1 Artillery and 1 Fusiliers in Holstein, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    Sweden roll dice for 1 Fusiliers in Holstein, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    KingdomOfPrussia roll dice for 1 Artillery and 1 Fusiliers in Holstein, round 3 :  1/1 hits
                    Sweden roll dice for 1 Fusiliers in Holstein, round 3 :  0/1 hits
                    1 Fusiliers owned by the Sweden lost in Holstein
                KingdomOfPrussia win, taking Holstein from Sweden with 1 Artillery and 1 Fusiliers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Sweden: 1 Fusiliers
            Battle in Pomerania
                KingdomOfPrussia attack with 2 Chasseurss, 3 Dragoonss and 8 Fusilierss
                Sweden defend with 1 Fusiliers
                    KingdomOfPrussia roll dice for 2 Chasseurss, 3 Dragoonss and 8 Fusilierss in Pomerania, round 1 :  3/1 hits
                    Sweden roll dice for 1 Fusiliers in Pomerania, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    1 Fusiliers owned by the Sweden lost in Pomerania
                KingdomOfPrussia win, taking Pomerania from Sweden with 2 Chasseurss, 3 Dragoonss and 8 Fusilierss remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Sweden: 1 Fusiliers

Non Combat Move - KingdomOfPrussia
            6 Dragoonss moved from Hesse to Mecklenburg

Place Units - KingdomOfPrussia
            3 Horse_Artillerys placed in Brandenburg
            1 Dragoons and 3 Fusilierss placed in Prussia

Turn Complete - KingdomOfPrussia
            KingdomOfPrussia collect 31 PUs; end with 31 PUs total

Territory Summary for KingdomOfPrussia :

SZ2 : 1 flag, 1 Brigantine and 1 Frigate
    Brandenburg : 1 flag, 1 Fortress, 1 General and 3 Horse_Artillerys
    Algarve : 1 flag, 1 Horse_Artillery
    Pomerania : 1 flag, 2 Chasseurss, 3 Dragoonss and 8 Fusilierss
    Old Castille : 1 flag, 1 Artillery, 5 Chasseurss, 7 Fusilierss and 1 Howitzer
    Hesse : 1 flag, 1 Cuirassiers, 4 Dragoonss, 3 Horse_Artillerys and 2 Hussarss
    Leon : 1 flag, 3 Horse_Artillerys
    Oporto : 1 flag, 1 Dragoons, 2 Horse_Artillerys and 1 Hussars
    Holstein : 1 flag, 1 Artillery and 1 Fusiliers
    Prussia : 1 flag, 1 Capital, 1 Dragoons, 3 Fusilierss and 14 Mortella_Towers
    Mecklenburg : 1 flag, 4 Artillerys, 6 Dragoonss and 8 Fusilierss
    Rhine : 1 flag, 11 Fusilierss

Production/PUs Summary :

France : 61 / 56
    UnitedKingdom : 42 / 40
    Spain : 47 / 37
    KingdomOfPrussia : 31 / 31
    Sweden : 22 / 29
    AustrianEmpire : 36 / 36
    OttomanEmpire : 32 / 34
    Russia : 50 / 50

Summary Text: No route to host: connect

[U-505]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.7

Game History

Round :15

Combat Move - Sweden
            2 Artillerys, 8 Chasseurss, 1 Dragoons, 1 Fusiliers, 2 Grenadierss, 6 Mariness and 2 Mortarss moved from Jutland to Holstein
            1 Artillery moved from Skane to SZ11
            1 Artillery moved from SZ11 to Holstein
            1 Barque moved from SZ10 to SZ9
            4 Fusilierss and 4 Mariness moved from Ostra Gotaland to SZ9
            4 Barques, 1 Battleship, 2 Frigates, 4 Fusilierss and 4 Mariness moved from SZ9 to SZ10
            4 Fusilierss and 4 Mariness moved from SZ10 to Holstein

Purchase Units - Sweden
            Sweden buy 1 Chasseurs and 6 Fusilierss; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - Sweden
            Battle in Holstein
                Sweden attack with 3 Artillerys, 8 Chasseurss, 1 Dragoons, 5 Fusilierss, 2 Grenadierss, 10 Mariness and 2 Mortarss
                KingdomOfPrussia defend with 1 Artillery and 1 Fusiliers
                    Sweden roll dice for 1 Battleship and 2 Frigates in Holstein, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 Artillery owned by the KingdomOfPrussia lost in Holstein
                    Sweden roll dice for 3 Artillerys, 8 Chasseurss, 1 Dragoons, 5 Fusilierss, 2 Grenadierss, 10 Mariness and 2 Mortarss in Holstein, round 1 :  11/0 hits
                    KingdomOfPrussia roll dice for 1 Fusiliers in Holstein, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 Artillery owned by the Sweden and 1 Fusiliers owned by the KingdomOfPrussia lost in Holstein
                Sweden win, taking Holstein from KingdomOfPrussia with 2 Artillerys, 8 Chasseurss, 1 Dragoons, 5 Fusilierss, 2 Grenadierss, 10 Mariness and 2 Mortarss remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for KingdomOfPrussia: 1 Artillery and 1 Fusiliers
                Casualties for Sweden: 1 Artillery

Non Combat Move - Sweden
            1 Fusiliers moved from Svealand to Ostra Gotaland

Place Units - Sweden
            1 Chasseurs and 1 Fusiliers placed in Jutland
            5 Fusilierss placed in Svealand

Turn Complete - Sweden
            Sweden collect 23 PUs; end with 23 PUs total

Territory Summary for Sweden :

Norvege : 1 flag
    Bohus : 1 flag, 1 Fortress
    Svealand : 1 flag, 1 Capital, 5 Fusilierss and 1 Mortella_Tower
    Jutland : 1 flag, 1 Chasseurs, 2 Fortresss, 1 Fusiliers and 1 General
    SZ8 : 1 flag
    SZ3 : 1 flag, 3 Brigantines and 5 Cutters
    SZ10 : 1 flag, 4 Barques, 1 Battleship and 2 Frigates
    Holstein : 1 flag, 2 Artillerys, 8 Chasseurss, 1 Dragoons, 5 Fusilierss, 2 Grenadierss, 10 Mariness and 2 Mortarss
    SZ11 : 1 flag, 1 Barque
    SZ19 : 1 flag, 1 Cutter
    Ostra Gotaland : 1 flag, 1 Fusiliers

Production/PUs Summary :

France : 61 / 56
    UnitedKingdom : 42 / 40
    Spain : 47 / 37
    KingdomOfPrussia : 30 / 31
    Sweden : 23 / 23
    AustrianEmpire : 36 / 36
    OttomanEmpire : 32 / 34
    Russia : 50 / 50

[pug6000]

It seems that concentration is lacking on both sides. 2 Big mistakes in a row.

First Prussia forgets to moves its Spanish forces.
Then Sweden forgets to move its smaller Baltic fleet.

Let’s see if I can at least fix a bit on Prussian side.

[U-505]

@pug6000:

It seems that concentration is lacking on both sides. 2 Big mistakes in a row.

First Prussia forgets to moves its Spanish forces.
Then Sweden forgets to move its smaller Baltic fleet.

Let’s see if I can at least fix a bit on Prussian side.

Ha. I didn’t even see that Russian naval purchase. I just assumed they were building more cavalry so I didn’t even bother looking at the turn summary. that was a huge mistake.

[pug6000]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.7

Game History

Round :15

Combat Move - AustrianEmpire
            5 Chasseurss and 3 Fusilierss moved from Bavaria to Rhine
            4 Chasseurss and 2 Fusilierss moved from Salzburg to Bavaria
            2 Chasseurss and 2 Fusilierss moved from Austria to Salzburg
            1 Dragoons moved from Lombardi to Liguria
            2 Dragoonss, 3 Horse_Artillerys and 1 Hussars moved from Venetia to Liguria
            1 Fusiliers moved from Hollande to Flanders
                  AustrianEmpire take Flanders from France
            1 Cutter and 1 Frigate moved from SZ77 to SZ75
            1 Fusiliers moved from Serbia to Albania
                  AustrianEmpire take Albania from OttomanEmpire
            2 Artillerys, 6 Chasseurss, 17 Fusilierss and 1 Grenadiers moved from Old Castille to Leon
            2 Cuirassierss, 3 Dragoonss and 2 Horse_Artillerys moved from Leon to Oporto
            1 Horse_Artillery moved from Oporto to Alemtejo
                  AustrianEmpire take Alemtejo from Spain

Purchase Units - AustrianEmpire
            AustrianEmpire buy 2 Cutters and 6 Fusilierss; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - AustrianEmpire

Non Combat Move - AustrianEmpire

Place Units - AustrianEmpire
            2 Cutters placed in SZ77
            6 Fusilierss placed in Austria

Turn Complete - AustrianEmpire
            AustrianEmpire collect 42 PUs; end with 42 PUs total

Territory Summary for AustrianEmpire :

Slavonia : 1 flag, 1 Fortress
    Bosnia : 1 flag
    Lombardi : 1 flag
    Albania : 1 flag, 1 Fusiliers
    Flanders : 1 flag, 1 Fusiliers
    Austria : 1 flag, 1 Capital, 6 Fusilierss and 1 Mortella_Tower
    Alemtejo : 1 flag, 1 Horse_Artillery
    Leon : 1 flag, 2 Artillerys, 6 Chasseurss, 17 Fusilierss and 1 Grenadiers
    Venetia : 1 flag, 3 Dragoonss
    Oporto : 1 flag, 2 Cuirassierss, 3 Dragoonss and 1 Horse_Artillery
    Bologna : 1 flag
    Cologne : 1 flag, 1 Fusiliers
    Salzburg : 1 flag, 2 Chasseurss, 1 Fortress and 2 Fusilierss
    Liguria : 1 flag, 3 Dragoonss, 3 Horse_Artillerys and 2 Hussarss
    Bavaria : 1 flag, 4 Chasseurss and 2 Fusilierss
    Macedonia : 1 flag, 1 Fusiliers
    Serbia : 1 flag, 1 Howitzer
    Rhine : 1 flag, 7 Chasseurss, 2 Dragoonss, 27 Fusilierss and 1 Horse_Artillery
    Umbria : 1 flag
    Bulgaria : 1 flag, 1 Artillery, 9 Fusilierss and 1 Marines
    SZ75 : 1 flag, 1 Cutter and 1 Frigate
    SZ77 : 1 flag, 2 Cutters
    Slovenia : 1 flag, 1 General

Production/PUs Summary :

France : 59 / 56
    UnitedKingdom : 42 / 40
    Spain : 44 / 37
    KingdomOfPrussia : 30 / 31
    Sweden : 23 / 23
    AustrianEmpire : 42 / 42
    OttomanEmpire : 31 / 34
    Russia : 50 / 50

[pug6000]

I am not sure, who suffers from the mistakes. The pressure on Spain is reduced a lot, but Sweden is really in danger now.

I think you will profit more from the mistakes than suffer, so I move on. But I offer you to start again with the Prussian move in case you think the Swedish mistake will hurt too much.

[U-505]

I’ll leave the decision up to you since I’ve already edited to fix my non-combat mistakes in the past.

[pug6000]

I dont mind, I am open to both ways (which is unusual, as I normally hate edit, but so far this has been a nearly perfect game).

I think that the relieve for Spain in the current situation is bigger than the problem of loosing Sweden (which will take some time, though it ceases to play a major role).

Take your time to choose  :-)