Chechnya

[TG Moses VI]

The South started the Civil War now? :)

[Guest]

@EmuGod:

BTW, the Palestinians do not resmeble the Philistines or Canaanites in language, religion, society, culture etc.

Hmmm…. not exactly this, but isn’t it
“shalom” in hebrew and “salaam” in arab?
Sound pretty colse to my ears, much more than “pax”, “peace”, “Friede” or “Mir”…
Or do all arabs stem from jews? Or maybe vice versa?

[Yanny]

Arab and Hebrew have similar alphabets.

[EmuGod]

@Yanny:

biblical history

Myth.

Really? Well, this “myth” that you speak of was proven archeologically. The battle between Emperor Senherib opf Assyria against King Hezekiah or Judah was proven to have taken place through the finding of a tablet. I suggest you do some research before you start posting, Yanny. I hate to tell you that there are parts of the bible that are actual historical facts.

[EmuGod]

@F_alk:

@EmuGod:

BTW, the Palestinians do not resmeble the Philistines or Canaanites in language, religion, society, culture etc.

Hmmm…. not exactly this, but isn’t it
“shalom” in hebrew and “salaam” in arab?
Sound pretty colse to my ears, much more than “pax”, “peace”, “Friede” or “Mir”…
Or do all arabs stem from jews? Or maybe vice versa?

The subject you’re bringing up is different entirely. That is part of the many things that Islam adopted from Judaism. Christinaity also adopted some things from Judaism. Don’t forget that there were Jews living in the Muslim controlled empire, which could be the source of some of the close words. However, the Philistines and Canaanites were completely different. Their beliefs were very different from that of the modern day Palestinians.

The Ancient Greeks took the Ancient Hebrew alphabet and reversed the letters to make them greek letters and have similar names for their letters. The first letter of the Hebrew alphabet is “aleph” and the first Greek letter is “Alpha”. The second Hebrew letter is “bet” and the Greek is “beta”. The third Hebrew is “Gimel” and the third Greek is “Gamma”. The fourth Hebrew is “Dalet” and the fourth Greek is “delta”. That doesn’t mean that the Greeks were descendants of the Jews, they simply adopted things from the Jews.

[Yanny]

I never said nothing in the Bible was true. However, the majority of the Bible is based on what was known at that time, with Christianity thrown in. And well, I just don’t trust people who start up a religion.

In 1948, one of the first acts that Israel put into place was to create a huge team of Archeologists. They were instructed to find remains of the Hebrew civilization. Why? Because this proof would get them political capita.

In 1992(93?), the very first act that the new Palestinian Government put into place was to create an Archeology Department, which would search for Canannite and Philistine evidence. Quite a bit has been found. Problem is, I can’t find the website I found this out on (History.com, damn pages disapear in days).

But this thread is about Chechnya you know? :) Lets create another thread if you choose to respond again.

[cystic crypt]

bossk - i can appreciate what you’re saying, but i don’t think that’s the way things have to be. Why was it so necessary for the north to battle the south? I can appreciate the desire to annihilate slavery, but otherwise it was a “pointless” slaughter. Who knows - maybe we’d have two great nations rather than just the one.
At any rate i can appreciate the desire for other countries to break off (i can’t wait for that to happen in Canada - as you are all aware).
Why is it necessary for nations to have the deaths of many people over a polito-economic separation? Many times the future of the separatist unit appears unstable, but just as my parents had no say in my future (as long as i was not living at home), then why should a country dictate the future to a fledgling province/nation?

[Yanny]

The Chechan Rebels, like many rebel groups, probably could not muster a 66% vote to seperate from Russia. So, they turn to violence. The Russians, they can respond with justified violence as long as we respond to stupid little threats like Iraq. Who are by the way, Russia’s business partner.

[cystic crypt]

HEY - Russia has WMD’s too. . . and they’re trading w/ Iraq? They prolly trade w/ N. Korea. How long until Bush decides its necessary to invade Russia? I bet there are some Russians who would like to take shots at America. They also have a history of dictator gov’ts . . . what a bunch of jerks. Let’s start the bombing!!!

[Yanny]

Trading is a hard thing to decide a war over.

In 1914, Germany’s biggest trading partner was France (and vise versa).
In 1939, Germany’s biggest trading partner was Russia (and vise versa).

[GeZe]

@cystic:

HEY - Russia has WMD’s too. . . and they’re trading w/ Iraq? They prolly trade w/ N. Korea. How long until Bush decides its necessary to invade Russia? I bet there are some Russians who would like to take shots at America. They also have a history of dictator gov’ts . . . what a bunch of jerks. Let’s start the bombing!!!

(I think somone’s crazy!)

the russians have nuks a army left over from the cold war and its the biggist country in the world!

[cystic crypt]

@GeZe:

@cystic:

HEY - Russia has WMD’s too. . . and they’re trading w/ Iraq? They prolly trade w/ N. Korea. How long until Bush decides its necessary to invade Russia? I bet there are some Russians who would like to take shots at America. They also have a history of dictator gov’ts . . . what a bunch of jerks. Let’s start the bombing!!!

(I think somone’s crazy!)

the russians have nuks a army left over from the cold war and its the biggist country in the world!

(i think somone’s sarcastic!)

[TG Moses VI]

biggist country in the world!

Yeah but how much of that terrain is actually hospital? Same with China, Saudi Arabia, Canada, and the US (before massive irrigation took place). Size alone is a bad indicator… (just look at UK, California, or Japan…)

[Guest]

@EmuGod:

The subject you’re bringing up is different entirely. That is part of the many things that Islam adopted from Judaism. Christinaity also adopted some things from Judaism.

agreed.

Don’t forget that there were Jews living in the Muslim controlled empire, which could be the source of some of the close words. However, the Philistines and Canaanites were completely different. Their beliefs were very different from that of the modern day Palestinians.

Yes, they lived for some time in arab controlled countries, but the pride they always took in their heritage would surely have forbidden such assimilation. Or did the muslims take over the use of such many words the jews used? then: a lot of christians lived in these muslim countries at that time, but the christians’ influence on arabic seems very little… they didn’t even have one language, but several…

For me, it sounds much more logical, that “jews” ans “muslims” are both of arabian descent: they are semites, both, and therefore the language is so similar.
Now, all you have to do is prove, that the Philistines and Canaanites were not semites, but whatever… germanic, slavic, etc…

And todays “beliefs” never is a measure for where you come from.
Russia comes from vikings, with a later greek-byzantine influence. You can see it in the names, alphabet and language they use, but not so much in their believes. Thor has not survived, not even in countries with a “pure” germanic-viking background.

The Ancient Greeks took the Ancient Hebrew alphabet … That doesn’t mean that the Greeks were descendants of the Jews, they simply adopted things from the Jews.

Unfortunately, if you look around…
the hebrew alphabet is an adoption of the phoenician alphabet, jsut as the greek is an adoption. Hebrew to greek is not like “father-son” but like “brother-brother”.
The phoenicians btw are a semitic people, and were also called “maritime Canaanites”.
If you don’t agree, then please think of: why should a “peasants kingdom” (judea) invent an alphabet, while the traders (phoenicians) don’t? Especially, when more or less all alphabets were created by necessities of merchants and traders?
Too much fame for the jews. If i called it arrogance, you would call me anti-semite.

[Yanny]

Phoenicians, they were the first to trade with Indian and Chineese traders right?

[EmuGod]

@F_alk:

@EmuGod:

The subject you’re bringing up is different entirely. That is part of the many things that Islam adopted from Judaism. Christinaity also adopted some things from Judaism.

agreed.

Don’t forget that there were Jews living in the Muslim controlled empire, which could be the source of some of the close words. However, the Philistines and Canaanites were completely different. Their beliefs were very different from that of the modern day Palestinians.

Yes, they lived for some time in arab controlled countries, but the pride they always took in their heritage would surely have forbidden such assimilation. Or did the muslims take over the use of such many words the jews used? then: a lot of christians lived in these muslim countries at that time, but the christians’ influence on arabic seems very little… they didn’t even have one language, but several…

For me, it sounds much more logical, that “jews” ans “muslims” are both of arabian descent: they are semites, both, and therefore the language is so similar.
Now, all you have to do is prove, that the Philistines and Canaanites were not semites, but whatever… germanic, slavic, etc…

And todays “beliefs” never is a measure for where you come from.
Russia comes from vikings, with a later greek-byzantine influence. You can see it in the names, alphabet and language they use, but not so much in their believes. Thor has not survived, not even in countries with a “pure” germanic-viking background.

The Ancient Greeks took the Ancient Hebrew alphabet … That doesn’t mean that the Greeks were descendants of the Jews, they simply adopted things from the Jews.

Unfortunately, if you look around…
the hebrew alphabet is an adoption of the phoenician alphabet, jsut as the greek is an adoption. Hebrew to greek is not like “father-son” but like “brother-brother”.
The phoenicians btw are a semitic people, and were also called “maritime Canaanites”.
If you don’t agree, then please think of: why should a “peasants kingdom” (judea) invent an alphabet, while the traders (phoenicians) don’t? Especially, when more or less all alphabets were created by necessities of merchants and traders?
Too much fame for the jews. If i called it arrogance, you would call me anti-semite.

I was simply showing an example of how Greek borrowed some things form Hebrew. You’re most likely right about the Phoenicians, though some say the Sumarians. Bot the Jews and the Muslims came from Arbaham, which could explain the similarities. Another one is that Mohammed got his idea of monotheism from Jewish merhcants who he met as he traveled through Judea as a merchant. He definetely pickedu p Hebrew, and after many years it could have had some sort of influence on Arabic. Also, I’m talking in the years of the middle ages, when Christians weren’t allowed into the Islamic empire. Jews were the go-betweens between the two enemies, that is, when they werent being persecuted.

[Yanny]

Well, during the Middle Ages, Christians were killed on site. Jews actually were tolerated. Keep in mind, this is at the height of Islaamic Society. Bagdad is called the city of peace. Most of Europe is still rapped up in feudalism and petty war.

[Guest]

@EmuGod:

I was simply showing an example of how Greek borrowed some things form Hebrew. You’re most likely right about the Phoenicians, though some say the Sumarians. Bot the Jews and the Muslims came from Arbaham, which could explain the similarities. Another one is that Mohammed got his idea of monotheism from Jewish merhcants who he met as he traveled through Judea as a merchant. He definetely pickedu p Hebrew, and after many years it could have had some sort of influence on Arabic. Also, I’m talking in the years of the middle ages, when Christians weren’t allowed into the Islamic empire. Jews were the go-betweens between the two enemies, that is, when they werent being persecuted.

Well, your example for showing how Greek burrowed from Hebrew was none.
And yes, i was trying to make a point that (modern) Jews and Arabs have the same roots. And i bet that Canaanites and Philistines had the same roots as (ancient) Jews.
The idea of monotheism in the muslim faith likely came from one of the two monotheistic faiths. I do not know which one directly, but the christian faith was strong in that area at that time, with Byzantine being such a close neighbor.
And last, of what time in the middel ages do you talk of?
All faiths were allowed to go to Jerusalem before the Crusades, noone was killed on sight. Christians have special rights in the muslim faith, just as jews have: they both have the “book”, and therefore enjoy (by the Quran) much more freedom than other religions.
The situation of course changed after the crusades, and only for believers of the latin christianity. Orthodox christians still were tolerated, or why was there still a Patriarch of Konstaninople, after the city fell to the ottomans?

[EmuGod]

@F_alk:

@EmuGod:

I was simply showing an example of how Greek borrowed some things form Hebrew. You’re most likely right about the Phoenicians, though some say the Sumarians. Bot the Jews and the Muslims came from Arbaham, which could explain the similarities. Another one is that Mohammed got his idea of monotheism from Jewish merhcants who he met as he traveled through Judea as a merchant. He definetely pickedu p Hebrew, and after many years it could have had some sort of influence on Arabic. Also, I’m talking in the years of the middle ages, when Christians weren’t allowed into the Islamic empire. Jews were the go-betweens between the two enemies, that is, when they werent being persecuted.

Well, your example for showing how Greek burrowed from Hebrew was none.
And yes, i was trying to make a point that (modern) Jews and Arabs have the same roots. And i bet that Canaanites and Philistines had the same roots as (ancient) Jews.
The idea of monotheism in the muslim faith likely came from one of the two monotheistic faiths. I do not know which one directly, but the christian faith was strong in that area at that time, with Byzantine being such a close neighbor.
And last, of what time in the middel ages do you talk of?
All faiths were allowed to go to Jerusalem before the Crusades, noone was killed on sight. Christians have special rights in the muslim faith, just as jews have: they both have the “book”, and therefore enjoy (by the Quran) much more freedom than other religions.
The situation of course changed after the crusades, and only for believers of the latin christianity. Orthodox christians still were tolerated, or why was there still a Patriarch of Konstaninople, after the city fell to the ottomans?

No, the Philistines were orginally a Greek tribe that migrated from the Greek islands. They do not resemble modern day Arabs and Palestinians at all. The Canaanites were centred in Canaan, also known as Israel or Judea and Samaria. The Jews came from Abraham, who was from Harran. Some say it is in turkey, though others say it’s in fact Ur, in Sumer.

During the Middle Ages, especially during the Crusades, the Jews were persectued. Before the crusades many were persecuted and exiled too. The Jews were forced to leave Britain, and Sardinia, for example.

As from which religion Islam developed, it is clearly from Judaism and not from Christianity. Mohammed came to the Jews and Babylon and tried to convince them to follow him but they rejected him. Also, many Islamic ideas come from Judais and some of their holidays, such as Ramadan, have some similarities to Judaism.

[GeZe]

@TG:

biggist country in the world!

Yeah but how much of that terrain is actually hospital? Same with China, Saudi Arabia, Canada, and the US (before massive irrigation took place). Size alone is a bad indicator… (just look at UK, California, or Japan…)

egxactly! the USA will have a hard time invading