This thread updates the formerly stickied thread:
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/4425/faq-1-0-for-bulge
No love for bulge?
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The way the allies win, is by managing a successful retreat, and keeping units ALIVE.
You’re not looking to defeat the German onslaught, you’re just looking to prevent them from taking the win.
Very simple theory IMO…
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The way the allies win, is by managing a successful retreat, and keeping units ALIVE.
You’re not looking to defeat the German onslaught, you’re just looking to prevent them from taking the win.
Very simple theory IMO…
Yep, but it is not what is usually ‘done’ in A&A. Add that to Make It Round’s list of why BOTB ‘fails’ (on the one hand complaining about not enough unit types while on the other complaining because he couldn’t figure out how trucks work) and folks have a terribly hard time getting their head’s around the whole thing.
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The way the allies win, is by managing a successful retreat, and keeping units ALIVE.
You’re not looking to defeat the German onslaught, you’re just looking to prevent them from taking the win.
Very simple theory IMO…
Yep, but it is not what is usually ‘done’ in A&A. Add that to Make It Round’s list of why BOTB ‘fails’ (on the one hand complaining about not enough unit types while on the other complaining because he couldn’t figure out how trucks work) and folks have a terribly hard time getting their head’s around the whole thing.
Assuming that they are well balanced and made consistent with the way other units operate, more units to choose from is always a plus.
My beef was not that they included a truck unit in the game, but rather the cavalier manner in which they attached radically different rules for its behavior and function.
There’s no contradiction inherent in what I’m saying.
An extreme example: A sculpt made to look like a UFO, which according to the rules should appear on a random territory or sea zone at the end of each player’s turn, destroying every other unit there, would be counter-intuitive and unwelcome. It just doesn’t fit in the context of the game (like having tanks that move ‘2’ but trucks that move ‘infinite’). You probably would want to exclude it from the game or add house rules to fix it (although you would still save the sculpt for one reason or another).
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Look, Make it Round, all of your complaints add up to “It isn’t ‘regular’ A&A.” Enough of the rest of the audience for these games share your opinion (or the Powers That Be think enough share your opinion) so what we’ve gotten is nearing on 8 revisions of ‘regular’ A&A over the last 5 years. Since Guadalcanal appears to be even less popular than BOTB despite all of the walk backs towards ‘regular’ A&A, I hold no hope that we’re going to ever see anything on the lines of BOTB ever again. I find that very sad on a number of levels.
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I wish there was a similar game. I love my Bulge!
And probably could learn to love Guadalcanal if I gave it a few more goes: do not have the time. -
I loved Bulge, and D-Day haven’t tried GC. I was very excited when D-Day was released, again excited for Bulge and again excited for GC unfortantly I never got GC due to life getting in the way but I still plan on buying it one day. I like both Bulge and D-Day so much when I started rebuilding my A&A collection I prechased them before Revised, Classic and the old Europe/Pacific games. I was so very much hoping they would cont. doing the same type of games. I was thinking and looking forward to stuff like Kursk, The Invasion of Italy, North Africa, Battle of the Atlantic, Iwo Jima, Phillpines all stuff I would have loved to have seen the light of day. Alot of people complain about D-Day, Bulge, and GC and even more people complain about how none of the games I’ve listed has ever been released. Well complaining about the games they did do isn’t a very good way of getting them to do the games you want them to do. I would love something more than just reprinting and tweeking old games.
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Look, Make it Round, all of your complaints add up to “It isn’t ‘regular’ A&A.” Enough of the rest of the audience for these games share your opinion (or the Powers That Be think enough share your opinion) so what we’ve gotten is nearing on 8 revisions of ‘regular’ A&A over the last 5 years. Since Guadalcanal appears to be even less popular than BOTB despite all of the walk backs towards ‘regular’ A&A, I hold no hope that we’re going to ever see anything on the lines of BOTB ever again. I find that very sad on a number of levels.
Simply untrue. I lauded the Guadalcanal system for its 3-tier combat system, and simultaneous unit movement, neither of which appear in the core game. But hey, if the core game bores you, you don’t need to play A&A… there are plenty of other games out there for you.
Lamenting BotB’s lack of popularity is like getting worked up about the demise of some obscure tribal dialect in New Guinea… You could do it, but there isn’t much point to it.
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I think the reason why Bulge isn’t or wasn’t popular is the different combat system. It’s so different you have to throw out everything you know about Axis and Allies and look at it as a different game. And on top of that it’s not a simple system. I saw it last night when I was showing off the games I had at a game of Global. After I said the combat system is different and takes so time to get used to no one seemed interested anymore.
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I loved Bulge, and D-Day haven’t tried GC. I was very excited when D-Day was released, again excited for Bulge and again excited for GC unfortantly I never got GC due to life getting in the way but I still plan on buying it one day. I like both Bulge and D-Day so much when I started rebuilding my A&A collection I prechased them before Revised, Classic and the old Europe/Pacific games. I was so very much hoping they would cont. doing the same type of games. I was thinking and looking forward to stuff like Kursk, The Invasion of Italy, North Africa, Battle of the Atlantic, Iwo Jima, Phillpines all stuff I would have loved to have seen the light of day. Alot of people complain about D-Day, Bulge, and GC and even more people complain about how none of the games I’ve listed has ever been released. Well complaining about the games they did do isn’t a very good way of getting them to do the games you want them to do. I would love something more than just reprinting and tweeking old games.
You might be pleasantly surprised very soon my friend……
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@Pacific:
I loved Bulge, and D-Day haven’t tried GC. I was very excited when D-Day was released, again excited for Bulge and again excited for GC unfortantly I never got GC due to life getting in the way but I still plan on buying it one day. I like both Bulge and D-Day so much when I started rebuilding my A&A collection I prechased them before Revised, Classic and the old Europe/Pacific games. I was so very much hoping they would cont. doing the same type of games. I was thinking and looking forward to stuff like Kursk, The Invasion of Italy, North Africa, Battle of the Atlantic, Iwo Jima, Phillpines all stuff I would have loved to have seen the light of day. Alot of people complain about D-Day, Bulge, and GC and even more people complain about how none of the games I’ve listed has ever been released. Well complaining about the games they did do isn’t a very good way of getting them to do the games you want them to do. I would love something more than just reprinting and tweeking old games.
You might be pleasantly surprised very soon my friend……
Is this simply blithe reassurance or do you have some facts you’d care to report?
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I’m sworn to secrecy at the moment. :-D All I can say is that a company other than Hasbro is coming out with a fresh idea.
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hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm……
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First post intro: I am returning to Axis & Allies after 15 years because crazy mid-age eyestrain making computer/tv hobbies nearly impossible (adieu my beloved Battlefield! - qq).
…and I have love for BotB. If it makes ANY difference, plz pass on to Larry, Krieghund, whomever! another vote to keep these kinds of things coming, if even just new boards using BotB system. I understand that it’s not classic A&A (which I love), but enjoy the challenge of scripted reinforcements and the chaos of the combat. Unlike classic system in which I will choose to lose lesser units first during combat, it’s nearly anything goes in BotB. Feels more like I am managing forces, but cannot control the results of individual battles. I only influence them. Feels natural to me if I’m at a commander level of some kind.
The twelve-sided die rolls swing wildly! Have already had great drama. To me, for this kind of board game, this system captures a sense of the mayhem of the first days of the Bulge. And the supply mechanic really suits that subject, too. Enjoying that aspect greatly. Thanks, Larry!
I would agree that the look of the board could be improved. I do have a hard time spotting the river cross-hatch at times. A few style aspects like that. Can’t complain about the layout, though. Quite interesting so far.
Also must thank frimmel for your many thoughts, strategies and questions answered about BotB on these boards. Others of you, too. Your contributions here have greatly enhanced my BotB experience. I might not have gotten over that initial hump without them. Thanks!
sorry tldr; needed to get those off my chest :-)
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@Sundown:
Also must thank frimmel for your many thoughts, strategies and questions answered about BotB on these boards. Others of you, too. Your contributions here have greatly enhanced my BotB experience. I might not have gotten over that initial hump without them. Thanks!
sorry tldr; needed to get those off my chest :-)
You’re welcome. :mrgreen:
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Welcome, Sundown Kid! Larry and I are glad you’re enjoying the game.
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I just got a copy of bulge for $5 at a garage sale and it had all the pieces! I passed it on to a fellow AA gamer who now has a chance to play this great game.
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Hey all,
The only problem with BOTB is that the system and units aren’t like anything we’ve had before, so learning a new game that is rather unbalanced to begin with isn’t a gret proposition. I really like the tactical games though, and would absolutely love a Kursk, or Stalingrad or Midway game!! -
I really like this game.
One of Avalon Hill’s better efforts. Would also like to see Kursk or Stalingrad.
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Kursk.
Not Stalingrad. Russians everywhere!
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