Opening moves for AA42

[AxisBrutality]

@wittman:

Must have been too good and the moderator is keeping it for himself. @AxisBrutality:

Hmm, what just happened? I posted a great opening moves reply, and my post was automatically marked as “spam” and removed :(

LOL, maybe :) Ok, I’ll try to write it all over again, but not just in one post.

Russia . Western Russia should be taken out, however I would not take out Ukraine, because Russian armor risks of getting totally annihilated when it is G1 turn. Therefore Finland would be good to take out. Those are pretty much only moves Russia can do “safely”, without risking it’s armor or artilleries being destroyed in Ukraine. Also as someone mentioned above, there is no longer any “advantage” of taking out Ukraine and the German fighter since none of them now can reach Egypt.

Russia- buys 8 INF or 6 INF and 1 Armor.

Non combat moves - 2 INF should go to U.S held territories in China/Sinkiang. 2 INF towards Moscow. And 5 INF should form a “wall” against Japan.

Leningrad/Karelia - there is not much Russia can do here to prevent Germany taking it either way, so Russian player can choose if they want to build 2 INF there or not.

2. Germany

Attack UK Cruiser on Gibraltar with 3 FTR, 1 from Denmark, 1 Berlin and 1 from area east of Berlin.

Attack UK Destroyer/Transport outside Canada with 2 German sub

Attack UK Destroyer outside Syria with German Battleship and invade Syria with 1 INF and 1 ART and 1 Bomber

The rest of attacks should be easy to clear out Russia out of Finland, and there are 3 more available FTR to support German forces on Eastern front.

Germany buys - 1 Battleship, 1 Transport, 2 INF, 2 ART

These should be put on either Baltic Sea in order to threaten UK and Leningrad at the same time

OR

These same units can be put outside Italy, and threaten Egypt and Syria all the time. Both strategies allow Germany to strike brutally against Egypt OR Leningrad while scaring UK on G2 turn. Depends what you prefer out of these two.

If units are put outside Italy, UK forces in Egypt are blocked by 2 German units in Syria. UK will have to take back Syria in some way, using 1 INF from Iran and also forces from Egypt. This might make a UK player thing one more time before deciding on attacking Japanese fleet outside E.Indies since Germany would be able to attack Egypt ( and Syria once again ) on G2 with total of 8 units, bomber and 2 Battleships.

If you put forces on Baltic Sea, Leningrad will be basically impossible for Russia to hold, while UK will fear some kind of invasion. UK would have to expand their fleet or build more land and air units on UK. And there are at least 2 German sub threatening UK Battleship and transport on G2 which would force UK to build ships, which means no resources for India.

[AxisBrutality]

UK turn - depends on where Germany put their units, Italy or the Baltic Sea.

If German forces are put on Italy, this means a massive collapse for the UK in Egypt and Syria when Germany starts their 2nd turn. On Germany’s 1st turn, Syria is taken by most probably 2 German units. UK needs to take this back.

Now UK player should decide themselves if they want to waste a lot of resources on attacking Japanese fleet on E.Indies while UK is experiencing a collapse on Egypt/Syria/Suez borders.

UK can attack the German Cruiser in the Baltic Sea if German units are put on Italy. Although UK risks losing a FTR just like Germany risks on FTR against UK Cruiser on Gibraltar.

UK has only 1 Transport, and I can’t see where UK should go with that and a Battleship. They could attack Norway, however UK ships would get in the range of most German fighters and subs + bomber on G2 turn even though UK expands their fleet, still it would be very volunable.

UK buys either a 1 carrier, 1 transport, 1 ART and 2 INF.  1 ART and 2 INF could be placed on India if German units are placed on Italy, if they are placed in the Baltic Sea, then more units are definitely needed on London.

[Hobbes]

@AxisBrutality:

LOL, maybe :) Ok, I’ll try to write it all over again, but not just in one post.

Russia . Western Russia should be taken out, however I would not take out Ukraine, because Russian armor risks of getting totally annihilated when it is G1 turn. Therefore Finland would be good to take out.

I still say Ukraine is a good option if you only send 2 ARM because of how it protects both West Russia and Caucasus on G1. Otherwise you’ll risk losing either one if you attack Finland.

Why I say this? If you send 9 INF, 2 ART and 4 ARM you should lose at least 2 INF, leaving 13 units to defend W Russia, plus any AAs. Germany can send 6 INF, 1 ART, 4 ARM and the entire Luftwaffe to crush West Russia (+90% odds, and the new AA rules reduce the risk), while retaking Finland and securing Karelia for later production.

Or, in case the Soviets get lucky and don’t lose units, Germany takes Caucasus, since Russia can only leave 7 units at the most and Germany can attack with 9 ground units (with the transport), plus planes.

Russia can’t secure both Caucasus and West Russia on G1 with a Finland/West Russia attack on R1. It needs to attack either Belorussia (which also makes more sense to earn 2 IPC rather than 1 IPC on Finland) to limit the danger to West Russia/Caucasus on G1 or take out Ukraine completely on R1.

[AxisBrutality]

Japanese turn:

No matter if Japanese fleet is attacked or not by the UK, Japan still have options.

Attack the two U.S. held territories which have 2 U.S. INF each. Central China territory held by 2 U.S. INF is attacked by 4 Japanese INF and 1 Fighter.

North of FIC, is attacked by 3 INF and 2 ART and 1 fighter from FIC.

Third and final attack should be against Russian INF north of Manchuria if they are there and not further back. Plenty of resources to attack 2-3-4 Russian INF.

Japan should move their carrier and cruiser to FIC + 2 destroyers, so this area should be safe from any UK2 turn attack. Move 1 INF from Singapore to FIC + use 1 transport from Japan to take with you 1 INF and 1 ART from the Phillippines to FIC. Move 1 sub to the Phillipines.

Japan buys 1 factory which can be placed on Manchuria + buy 1 transport, 1 INF and 1 ART, save 1 IPC.

Japan should be able then to send total of 6 units into China or Russia or further down to FIC on J2 turn. Also 3 units can be built on J2 turn on Manchuria, that is total of 9 units going to the East-Asia on J2.

[AxisBrutality]

@Hobbes:

@AxisBrutality:

LOL, maybe :) Ok, I’ll try to write it all over again, but not just in one post.

Russia . Western Russia should be taken out, however I would not take out Ukraine, because Russian armor risks of getting totally annihilated when it is G1 turn. Therefore Finland would be good to take out.

I still say Ukraine is a good option if you only send 2 ARM because of how it protects both West Russia and Caucasus on G1. Otherwise you’ll risk losing either one if you attack Finland.

Why I say this? If you send 9 INF, 2 ART and 4 ARM you should lose at least 2 INF, leaving 13 units to defend W Russia, plus any AAs. Germany can send 6 INF, 1 ART, 4 ARM and the entire Luftwaffe to crush West Russia (+90% odds, and the new AA rules reduce the risk), while retaking Finland and securing Karelia for later production.

Or, in case the Soviets get lucky and don’t lose units, Germany takes Caucasus, since Russia can only leave 7 units at the most and Germany can attack with 9 ground units (with the transport), plus planes.

Russia can’t secure both Caucasus and West Russia on G1 with a Finland/West Russia attack on R1. It needs to attack either Belorussia (which also makes more sense to earn 2 IPC rather than 1 IPC on Finland) to limit the danger to West Russia/Caucasus on G1 or take out Ukraine completely on R1.

Yes, I somewhat agree, but the cost for Russia is too high, they start losing armor, and now armos cost 6 IPC. Russia is considerably weaker this time around because, they can’t defend both Leningrad and Stalingrad, they have fewer men to start with and as mentioned, armor does cost more now. I would not attack Caucasus anyway, because as you can see, I would rather take out most of the UK ships and attack Syria, with minimal losses. They I can choose to focus on either the Baltic Sea or Italy , but either way, most pressure will be put on Leningrad and not Caucasus.

[AxisBrutality]

USA turn -

They can’t attack much, except 2 German subs outside Canada and Solomon Islands. The U.S. has to decide, if they should attack those 2 German subs, or unload forces in Morocco. USA can’t do both at the same time.

Instead of attacking Solomon Islands which are worthless anyway, I would rather move P-Harbour fleet and West-USA fleet towards Alaska.

USA buys 1 factory in Alaska, this is in order to put pressure on Japan + Russia is only 1 space from there, USA could more easely ship forces into Russia to support them, instead of planning on how to take the Phillipines and strech forces to much and too far from West-USA.

Move the U.S fighter in China to Yakut SSR so it can land on U.S. Carrier on US2 turn.

Move the U.S. fighter from Eastern U.S. and land it on UK Carrier.

Besides buying factory in Alaska, a U.S. player should focus more on Japan, or else UK can’t hold it alone with India. Therefore factory on Alaska puts pressure on Japan from the north, sends U.S. forces to Russia a lot faster than going the Pacific route.

[Mallery29]

@Hobbes:

@AxisBrutality:

LOL, maybe :) Ok, I’ll try to write it all over again, but not just in one post.
Russia . Western Russia should be taken out, however I would not take out Ukraine, because Russian armor risks of getting totally annihilated when it is G1 turn. Therefore Finland would be good to take out.

I still say Ukraine is a good option if you only send 2 ARM because of how it protects both West Russia and Caucasus on G1. Otherwise you’ll risk losing either one if you attack Finland.
Why I say this? If you send 9 INF, 2 ART and 4 ARM you should lose at least 2 INF, leaving 13 units to defend W Russia, plus any AAs. Germany can send 6 INF, 1 ART, 4 ARM and the entire Luftwaffe to crush West Russia (+90% odds, and the new AA rules reduce the risk), while retaking Finland and securing Karelia for later production.
Or, in case the Soviets get lucky and don’t lose units, Germany takes Caucasus, since Russia can only leave 7 units at the most and Germany can attack with 9 ground units (with the transport), plus planes.
Russia can’t secure both Caucasus and West Russia on G1 with a Finland/West Russia attack on R1. It needs to attack either Belorussia (which also makes more sense to earn 2 IPC rather than 1 IPC on Finland) to limit the danger to West Russia/Caucasus on G1 or take out Ukraine completely on R1.

Have to agree with Hobbes here…and if your German player intends on buying a BB, its even MORE reason to take Ukraine….I see where the BB can help, but that’s 20 IPCs that could go to destroying Russia…you’re going to end up with a stack of Russians (R2) that you’ll never be able to eliminate in time.

[Mallery29]

@AxisBrutality:

USA turn -

They can’t attack much, except 2 German subs outside Canada and Solomon Islands. The U.S. has to decide, if they should attack those 2 German subs, or unload forces in Morocco. USA can’t do both at the same time.
Instead of attacking Solomon Islands which are worthless anyway, I would rather move P-Harbour fleet and West-USA fleet towards Alaska.
USA buys 1 factory in Alaska, this is in order to put pressure on Japan + Russia is only 1 space from there, USA could more easely ship forces into Russia to support them, instead of planning on how to take the Phillipines and strech forces to much and too far from West-USA.
Move the U.S fighter in China to Yakut SSR so it can land on U.S. Carrier on US2 turn.
Move the U.S. fighter from Eastern U.S. and land it on UK Carrier.
Besides buying factory in Alaska, a U.S. player should focus more on Japan, or else UK can’t hold it alone with India. Therefore factory on Alaska puts pressure on Japan from the north, sends U.S. forces to Russia a lot faster than going the Pacific route.

Your moves are easily counterable and the factory is a giant waste of money, and goes out the window if J1 a CV is built, your Alaskan defense force is up against 2(1s), 2(2s) 5(3s), 2(4s)…J2 has 98.5% win, and if they want to be true a$$holes, they could take it possibly from you……good luck coming back from that catastrophe.

[Mallery29]

silly me…I left out the Japanese sub…change that to 99.6% chance of victory for Japan…but I’m sure you’ll get some lucky rolls  :wink:

[AxisBrutality]

Have to agree with Hobbes here…and if your German player intends on buying a BB, its even MORE reason to take Ukraine….I see where the BB can help, but that’s 20 IPCs that could go to destroying Russia…you’re going to end up with a stack of Russians (R2) that you’ll never be able to eliminate in time.

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Point is, I don’t need to get rid of Russians, the only thing Germany has to do is to take Karelia, keep it, secure it’s northern flank and threaten UK. OR have total control in Libya, Algeria, Egypt and Syria, which is essential, and I can still threaten Caucasus.

1 BB means Germany having 2 BB in Italy or 1 Cruiser and 1 BB in the Baltic Sea, so another Battleship sthrengtens already existing Naval Forces of Germany in either Italy or the Baltic Sea, which gives Germany either way a potent Naval force with 2 transports which means they can send 4 units whereever they want to with all the air power and battleships all along. That is a potent naval force.

I can agree on taking out Belarus instead of Finland of course, so that is no problem. But even 2 Armor lost in Ukraine, means 50% or all Russian armor LOST. � That German fighter there can’t be used against Egypt or Syria anyway, because Germany can take out Syria easy with the strategy I suggested. It is extremely easy for Germany to take Ukraine back, risking losing 2 INF at most. 50% of Russian armor which is 2 out of 4 tanks is wiped out and the same goes for 1 Russian ART which is 33% or Russian artilleries since they start with total of 3, which degrades Russian offencive capability.

[AxisBrutality]

Your moves are easily counterable and the factory is a giant waste of money, and goes out the window if J1 a CV is built, your Alaskan defense force is up against 2(1s), 2(2s) 5(3s), 2(4s)…J2 has 98.5% win, and if they want to be true a$$holes, they could take it possibly from you……good luck coming back from that catastrophe.

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I will have to disagree, this is only true in the case of Japan moving ALL ships to Japan, of course, leaving FIC totally “naked” to the UK invasion, which I don’t think is a good idea at all.

Of course, if you play that way, US can build a lot stronger force on it’s 1st turn and still send forces to Russia one turn later, FIC being left alone to defend itself against India and Burma with huge UK fleet present there, not a good idea.

[Hobbes]

@AxisBrutality:

I will have to disagree, this is only true in the case of Japan moving ALL ships to Japan, of course, leaving FIC totally “naked” to the UK invasion, which I don’t think is a good idea at all.

With an Alaskan IC? I’d say that it may be the move to make for Japan, to threaten it and force the US to defend it or abandon it. Let the UK fiddle around FIC, Japan can always swing back to retake it.

[Hobbes]

@AxisBrutality:

Have to agree with Hobbes here…and if your German player intends on buying a BB, its even MORE reason to take Ukraine….I see where the BB can help, but that’s 20 IPCs that could go to destroying Russia…you’re going to end up with a stack of Russians (R2) that you’ll never be able to eliminate in time.

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Point is, I don’t need to get rid of Russians, the only thing Germany has to do is to take Karelia, keep it, secure it’s northern flank and threaten UK. OR have total control in Libya, Algeria, Egypt and Syria, which is essential, and I can still threaten Caucasus.

1 BB means Germany having 2 BB in Italy or 1 Cruiser and 1 BB in the Baltic Sea, so another Battleship sthrengtens already existing Naval Forces of Germany in either Italy or the Baltic Sea, which gives Germany either way a potent Naval force with 2 transports which means they can send 4 units whereever they want to with all the air power and battleships all along. That is a potent naval force.

Too bad Moscow can’t be reached by sea, eh? ;)

I can agree on taking out Belarus instead of Finland of course, so that is no problem. But even 2 Armor lost in Ukraine, means 50% or all Russian armor LOST. � That German fighter there can’t be used against Egypt or Syria anyway, because Germany can take out Syria easy with the strategy I suggested. It is extremely easy for Germany to take Ukraine back, risking losing 2 INF at most. 50% of Russian armor which is 2 out of 4 tanks is wiped out and the same goes for 1 Russian ART which is 33% or Russian artilleries since they start with total of 3, which degrades Russian offencive capability.

If you attack West Russia and Ukraine, you’ll kill 6 INF (plus 1 INF lost to kill the Soviet armor on Ukraine on G1), 2 ART, 2 ARM and 1 FTR at the average expense of 6 INF, 1 ART and 3 ARM. That’s 51 IPC of German hardware against 40 of Soviet hardware.

As the Soviets you usually will never have another opportunity to deal so much damage to Germany. Plus you’re securing both W Russia and Caucasus and prevent a Karelia stack.

[Mallery29]

Fic doesn’t have to be completely defenseless…remeber, I only spent 14 on the CV…I still have 16 to terrorize Asia with.  And once the American fleet is gone, who the hell is going to stop Japan?  The Solomons provides the stepping stone to the Phillipines.  Not saying its the best US1 move in the Pacific, but it may be the only reasonable thing to do…besides, by adding US reinforcements in the Pac US1, you can always meet back up at Pearl or Wake and begin to pinch the Japanese…so instead of the IC, add a CV and prepare for island hopping!

[Mallery29]

A German navy built for offense will never succeed (unless you are playing bad Allies)…I can see a sub or a DD for defensive/counterattacks, but BBs are the biggest waste of money in 42 (no matter what edition you are playing)…ok, an Alaskan complex might be up there too.

[AxisBrutality]

Too bad Moscow can’t be reached by sea, eh? ;)

If you attack West Russia and Ukraine, you’ll kill 6 INF (plus 1 INF lost to kill the Soviet armor on Ukraine on G1), 2 ART, 2 ARM and 1 FTR at the average expense of 6 INF, 1 ART and 3 ARM. That’s 51 IPC of German hardware against 40 of Soviet hardware.

As the Soviets you usually will never have another opportunity to deal so much damage to Germany. Plus you’re securing both W Russia and Caucasus and prevent a Karelia stack.
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2 out of 3 Russian factories can be reached by the sea, if they are taken, Russia is pretty much done :) That is one of the reasons Stalin won, Hitler didn’t manage to take Leningrad and Stalingrad, Moscow would have collapsed if that happened, the same is the case in the game.

Yes, one good point is that Russia can take out 51 vs 40. However at what cost if you understand what I mean? Germany has 41 IPCs and a lot more units, which means, Germany can afford to lose a little more, Russia on the other hand has to sacrifise it’s offensive capability, leaving Russia with only 2 ART and 2 Armor after G1 turn.

You can’t prevent Karelia attack, there will basically be like 1-2 INF on Karelia left when it’s German turn, and it’s easy to take that out. 3 German INF on Finland + Baltic area with another 1 INF and 1 Armor and the rest wipes out Russian 2 tanks in Ukraine, with 1 or 2 INF losses. Germany doesn’t lose any IPC’s , they gain 1 IPC in Syria with most of UK ships annihilated, and Russia is dependable on UK since they are closest to Karelia.

[AxisBrutality]

@Mallery29:

Fic doesn’t have to be completely defenseless…remeber, I only spent 14 on the CV…I still have 16 to terrorize Asia with. � And once the American fleet is gone, who the hell is going to stop Japan? � The Solomons provides the stepping stone to the Phillipines. � Not saying its the best US1 move in the Pacific, but it may be the only reasonable thing to do…besides, by adding US reinforcements in the Pac US1, you can always meet back up at Pearl or Wake and begin to pinch the Japanese…so instead of the IC, add a CV and prepare for island hopping!

And a factory is also “only” 15, giving you 2 units each round, how many units per round does carrier give you? None. And carriers need to be loaded with fighters or else they suck and are easy to kill. Attacking with carriers is even worse, no offense capability at all.

[Mallery29]

Kind of hard for Hitler to get to Stalingrad when the straits were closed…and your buy is useless…'nuff said.

[AxisBrutality]

@Mallery29:

A German navy built for offense will never succeed (unless you are playing bad Allies)…I can see a sub or a DD for defensive/counterattacks, but BBs are the biggest waste of money in 42 (no matter what edition you are playing)…ok, an Alaskan complex might be up there too.

Again, you are not arguing why it is a “bad” idea, you just say it’s a bad idea. A new battleship gives BOOST to a exsisting Cruiser in the Baltic Sea OR another Battleship in the Mediterranian Sea. That gives Germany 2 Battleships to attack shores with Egypt OR Syria OR Caucasus because a enemy unit can fire. The same thing if the Battleship is places in the Baltic Sea, both can fire all the time at Karelia and threaten UK all the time. A destroyer which you are suggesting, CAN’T do that and does not secure German fleet. We are talking about a difference of 8 IPC between your and mine suggestion, and I don’t think 1 Armor + 2 saved IPC for next round will do a “massive” difference on the eastern front at all, but on the Seas - a HUGE difference!

[Mallery29]

Last I checked, CVs attack at a 1, defend at 2.  Add 2 FTRs, attack at 3, defend at 4, and you have mobile hand of God……How do you think the Pacific was won? With BBs?  CVs and SS my friend!