@Curtmungus your honor of being more famous than me is quite deserved. I salute you.
The Drafting of Women
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There is something my fried we call “induction”, it is not a precise tool of logic, but with a little jugement you can come to interesting conclusion; like in the domain of physic.
Only a blind will say the Americans are the same as the German, sure German are not all blond & rigid, and all Russian are not all taking vodka when they wake up; these are stereoptype; often with little value. But we must admit that all culture, for lot of reason, are very different. But, as always, it is an holistic, general view. French are direct, very direct, if they think you are an idiot; you will know it. This is not true for all french, but it is still a feature of the french culture… Now how do we call that, most french will say the french are honest, and most english will not use so gentle term… Same thing for the whole “American are arrogant” thing, you can look at it like Pride, but it can also look like arrogance, it is just a question of perspective.
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@Anonymous:
There is something my fried we call “induction”, it is not a precise tool of logic, but with a little jugement you can come to interesting conclusion; like in the domain of physic.
…Same thing for the whole “American are arrogant” thing, you can look at it like Pride, but it can also look like arrogance, it is just a question of perspective.
Thanks, good words for what i think
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@Deviant:Scripter:
Psychologically and Physically, women aren’t as strong as men. That’s a fact. I mean, if it ever came down to the point where all the men were dead, then sure women should have to fight :wink:. There’s really no reason otherwise.
Psychologically … lol
Women can stand physical pain much better than men. They may not be as “strong” in lifting weights… but hey, how much muscles does it take to pull a trigger, drive a tank, fly a plane, read a radar etc etc.
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@F_alk:
Psychologically … lol
Ummm, I’m not quite sure what’s so funny here. Watching your friend’s die right in front of you has quite a LOT to do with your psychlogic stability.
@F_alk:
Women can stand physical pain much better than men.
According to who? If a woman was in a torture camp and a man was also, I’d bet that the man would hold out longer than the woman does.
This is quite a stupid argument to be making. Yanni, I’m sure when you have wife and daughter one day, you’re not going to want to face the possibility of them being drafted. You’re a liar if you say to do.
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@Deviant:Scripter:
@F_alk:
Psychologically … lol
Ummm, I’m not quite sure what’s so funny here. Watching your friend’s die right in front of you has quite a LOT to do with your psychlogic stability.
What has that do with your statement that women are psychologically weaker? That was what i was laughing about. You pulling out this little nice prejudice.
Sounds like you don’t want your wife to work, but stay at home in the kitchen and watch the kids….@F_alk:
Women can stand physical pain much better than men.
According to who? If a woman was in a torture camp and a man was also, I’d bet that the man would hold out longer than the woman does.
I stand corrected. Women receive pain differently! They have a lower threshold, but can identify pain much better. Problem is, women as subject in pain research / gender specific pain research has just started.
(german article: http://www.schmerzliga.de/pages/pub/se_titelstory.html)
Therefore, your statement is as invalid as mine. I wouldn’t take that bet, if there is a smart torturer in the camp.This is quite a stupid argument to be making. Yanni, I’m sure when you have wife and daughter one day, you’re not going to want to face the possibility of them being drafted. You’re a liar if you say to do.
That has nothing to do with your previous reasoning.
Then men shouldn’t be drafted either, as the women and kids don’t want them to leave. -
Only a blind will say the Americans are the same as the German, sure German are not all blond & rigid, and all Russian are not all taking vodka when they wake up; these are stereoptype; often with little value. But we must admit that all culture, for lot of reason, are very different. But, as always, it is an holistic, general view. French are direct, very direct, if they think you are an idiot; you will know it. This is not true for all french, but it is still a feature of the french culture… Now how do we call that, most french will say the french are honest, and most english will not use so gentle term… Same thing for the whole “American are arrogant” thing, you can look at it like Pride, but it can also look like arrogance, it is just a question of perspective.
To be honest, I have never seen a blond German in person – or at least that I knew of. Most blonds I see tend to be Russian – those that don’t take “Vodka” when they wake up – or at least I’m aware of. Don’t know if French are honest – maybe or at least I’m unaware what “qualifies” as honesty.
According to who? If a woman was in a torture camp and a man was also, I’d bet that the man would hold out longer than the woman does.
Women give birth to babies - that is “pain” enough. Women hot wax their legs - again, I would rather die than let this happen to me. :)
That has nothing to do with your previous reasoning.
Then men shouldn’t be drafted either, as the women and kids don’t want them to leave.Agreed. I never really believed in drafting (unless under dire circumstances [ex. if your own country was invaded]), and if someone doesn’t want that fight, that dramatically lowers your units combat effectiveness. Remember the slogan, “You are only as strong as the weakest person on your team.” Of course, if women want to join the military, I’m fine with that. They are some pretty tough girls out there. :roll:
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I guess as a pacifist i would be opposed to any kind of draft. That aside, there is something that resides in me (no doubt chauvenistic, paternalistic, or whatever other label you’d care to paint me with) that makes me cringe at the idea of women going out to war and dying for their country. Maybe it’s because of what “Mom” means to me, or how i’ve got to know my sisters and other women in my life. My dad, my cousins, my uncles, and even myself, i could see dying in battle (well - as a medic, anyway), and maybe even convincing ourselves that we’d be dying with honor. There is something in my consciousness that says that it would be a disgrace to have a woman die in the field of battle.
Again, maybe it’s because i was brought up to protect women - to defend them, my sisters especially, but seeing an abused woman in the ER makes my blood boil.
The sight of a woman dying on a battle field would stir the consciousness of a nation, at least one of chauvenistic males like me, to fight against this occurrance.
And i disagree vehemently with D:S. Women are stronger then men in more ways than you’d imagine. Women out-survived men in concentration camps. They may not be as stronger physically at first glance, however they have more stamina then men do.
Fact. -
I don’t think it really matters to me.
I dont think you have to draft women, at first , but if they want to fight, then hey, knock yourself out.
Both men and women have their strengths and weaknesses
Russia had plenty of women fighting in the fornt lines during WW2
When the Germans first reached Stalingrad, most of the AA and anti-tank guns were being operated by women.
And from the accounts I’ve read on the battle in stalingrad, the women fought just as viciously as any man.yaknowwhatimsayin
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Those Russian women were tough! They made some fine pilots too. I would be glad to have some covering my arse.
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Russia and Israel prove that Women can fight as well as Men. I’m tired as being treated as the “typical man”. Carry out the garbage, work out, pay for dinner, own a big pit bull. Most Women aren’t Sex in the City girls. If Women aren’t going to be forced to die for our country, then I damn well shouldn’t be either.
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Yanny Said:
If Women aren’t going to be forced to die for our country, then I damn well shouldn’t be either.
Slighty flawed logic. I mean there are people who don’t have to work, why should I? There are people who don’t vote, why should I? There are people who cannot wipe their own bum, why should I.
Yall get my point
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@cystic:
There is something in my consciousness that says that it would be a disgrace to have a woman die in the field of battle. The sight of a woman dying on a battle field would stir the consciousness of a nation, at least one of chauvenistic males like me, to fight against this occurrance.
As disgusting the thought of women lying dead on the battlefield is to me, I think men doing the same would trigger a very similar reaction. I think it’s simply a matter of desenitization; in the various forms of media, from actual footage, to photographs, to war movies, we have grown accustomed to the idea of men dieing in battle and not women.
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Yanny Said:
If Women aren’t going to be forced to die for our country, then I damn well shouldn’t be either.
Slighty flawed logic. I mean there are people who don’t have to work, why should I? There are people who don’t vote, why should I? There are people who cannot wipe their own bum, why should I.
Yall get my point
I think you didn’t get his.
The emphasis was on “forced to”. Noone forces you to work, vote or wipe your bum. But when drafted you can be forced to go out with high chance of not coming back, and a lot of other things. -
Yes, In Israel women are sent to the army at age 18 but they usually do not serve on the front lines for a very good reason. Israel does not want them to be captured and subjected to horrible torture which would happen if taken by the Arabs since in Arab countries women are second to men and the Arab interrogators would do terrible things to women such as rape them for example. I’m divided on whther women should go in the USA. After all, they were the ones who built the planes, tanks etc. in World War 2 and that worked out pretty well so maybe they should do that since their planes seemed to be extremely well built.
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If Women were drafted, then half the number of Men would be required to be drafted. So, there will be a mix of Men/Women to do any work required for a war.
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What kind of war are you talking about? Not one draftee for a war of imperialism.
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Israel does not want them to be captured and subjected to horrible torture which would happen if taken by the Arabs since in Arab countries women are second to men and the Arab interrogators would do terrible things to women such as rape them for example.
I think you’re pretty lucky that, to my knowledge, there are no arabs on these boards. Most Arab nations are quite modern and have adapted western ideas of gender equality. I like how we’ve demonized most of that part of the world as barbaric and backwards in our propoganda.
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If Women were drafted, then half the number of Men would be required to be drafted. So, there will be a mix of Men/Women to do any work required for a war.
Actually, no Yanny. Let me explain.
First, the misconception that everyone who is drafted serves. You have to meet certain standards. A 98 pound weakling would be not be accepted.
Second, an assault rifle is not a .22. It is heavy and has a decent recoil that many people are unable to handle.
Third, no one is saying that no women can be soldiers. That is not true. But a smaller percentage of women can. Fewer women than men have what it takes.
Fourth, the exaple of Israel. Like in the U.S., women do not serve on the front lines. Also, less of their time is required by the military. Its not quite a throwback to the WAC, but they have reasons.
Fifth, Honor killings/rapes of women, often for crimes that their relatives and not them commited, continue in Eqypt, Palestine, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Afganisitan, Pakistan, etc. Women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia, where they have “Religious Police” In Sudan the Christian Minority is persecuted by the Muslim Majority.
Thus Yanny, if you drafted 100 women and 100 men you would have more male soldiers than female.
Falk, what is wrong with women staying home with the children if they want to? They have done studies, even if the man stays home and the woman works, she almost always does more taking care of the kids than the man. Naturally. It is all hormones. Women have more of the hormone which makes you nurturing.
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I do not want to be drafted into the military if war breaks out :( I just do not know how much of service I could be or if I could handle the savagery and brutality war brings. Why must I go out and shoot a fellow human I have never ever met in my entire life? I do not think he has ever done anything horrible in his life, certainly not to me, so what right do have to shoot him? If he is the enemy, then there was never any chance I could befriend him? Most likely he was caught up in the war, sent to fight because of the actions of presidents, dictators, ministers, or chancellors that he could never meet or have a say in their dealings. But if my country needed me desperately, and her intentions were clear and not for aggression, then I guess I would accept being drafted. I would try my hardest to be a good soldier and do what I am told, even if my heart was not with me. I do not know if I could serve with pride, but I know I will do it with honor and forgiveness. :(
‘You cannot qualify war in harsher terms then I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it. I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot not heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for more blood, more vengence, more desolation. War is hell.’ ~ General William Tecumseh Sherman
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Perfectly said. :wink:
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