BobGordon303 vs Gazza

[Axisplaya]

That’s right. Same bug. Germany should have been allowed to scramble.

Then you run into the same problem.

Should you allow the allies turn to be redone entirely ? If so, they will be able to take Germany with proper play…In the end, it will come down to the same question : do you want to stop the game now (with the loss of Germany), or do you want to continue (not allowing the take of Germany).

[Guest]

Hello Major and Gazza - the issue here is Gazza made a Legal Move of which I was unaware. And because it is Legal, it is okay. I did state we were playing the Alpha 3+ rules and accordng to multiple sources, it is okay.  So I know now that USA can open Denmark and UK can win the game. NP.  However, the same standard needs to apply to Gazza. W Germany can scramble up to 3 fighters AND Gazza sent all his planes elsewhere. During America’s move, there are 2 naked transports sitting in SZ 112 at the end of the Combat Move.  Germany launches scramble option and destroys the boats and troops.  Planes return to W. Germany and play continues. BTW: On UK Turn, There are still 2 Tact bombers that interept UK wants to try and take Denmark.

[Guest]

Haven’t heard back from you. Disappointed by that. This game is unlikely to continue and I doubt we will ever play again. Nor with Axisplaya for me. I’m pretty certain you know the rule that a country can scramble vs a boat. You didn’t think to send any escorts with your transports and by the rules, they are dead because Germany scrambles a fighter and shoots them down. Norway and Denmark do not fall. Axisplaya says, “well, gazza could redo his move. But that’s bs.” I might not have known a rule, but I can assure I do know the rule about escorts and although the game glitched, I’m a gentleman and would not have cheated my opponent because the game didn’t ask for the scramble.  I’m blown away my club plays wrong but I accept that. I was wrong re: Denmark. I’m astounded you forgot to send escorts and now Axisplaya tells me you could re-do your move and the odds are against me. It’s not about redoing a move. This…is…BS.

[gazza]

wait on you scramble to defend a sea zone with your own shipd in it yes.

you cant scramble to a sea zone to attack it. it is a scramble. is for defence of your fleet not to attack.or to protect land

there isant a bug in the game at all

with the russian fleet in the boltic it is not attacking you i cant use it for bombard so you have no right to scramble uk and russia cant attack together just defend so you cant attack when it isant your go just defend.
so if you scramled you would be attacking yes as you have nothing to defend

i dont think you will get it but there you go

[gazza]

tell you what bob as fare as i new you cant scramble if there is nothing to protect and i know you mite of been able to scramle if you was protecting wgermany but i attact germany as fare as i can see you have no planes to protect germany to scramble

but im not 100%on that but anyway if i did my go again i would still take germany but the next sea zone

i cant give you the ind points back but the game is yours gg

[Guest]

gazza - i’m quitting triple a. The rules are very clear - you can scramble whenever there is an attack adjacent to an airbase - including vs transports when USA attacks Norway/Denmark. The game glitched that it didn’t ask for a scramble. I don’t care about the win. Your friend AxisPlaya is the one that said I could scramble - the same authoritity that said the attack at Germany was legit. You forgot to send any gear to cover the transports.  That was a mistake; transports are dead on arrival.

I’m quitting because Axisplaya has a double standard - me losing Germany, I should have known the rule. You not sending gear to cover your transports, you get to re-do your move and send carriers and planes and dice are against me. I have a message from him saying exactly that. He is an experienced player and talking that sort of BS, it is frustrating.

I’ll stick to boardgame.  I know we would never play again nor finish this game. so it goes.

[Gargantua]

Yikes, I just witnessed bob delete his account. :(

Sorry to see you go man, but I guess that’s the Democrat way. :P

[Gargantua]

So Gazza misinterpreted that you can scramble to defend against an amphibious assault in a neighbouring sea zone.  Lesson Learned.

All the transports aren’t necessarily dead though… because the “attacking” power, retains the ability to retreat.  Scrambled planes would get to roll for the first round of defence, and assuming they ALL missed, technically the transports -could- retreat away.

I hope both of you get a better game next time. (FTF or Online)

[Axisplaya]

@bobgordon303:

I’m quitting because Axisplaya has a double standard -

I don’t…I’m no more Gazza’s friend that i am yours.
I have no particular interest into this game, the result of this game, or in making any of the players happy.

Seems to me that Bobgordon is very emotional and wants to see Gazza’s transport sunk and that’s all, end of discution, end of rationality, end of trying to understand each point of view, end of trying to find a FAIR solution for both players.

Would Gazza have done those moves if the Triple A program had been working properly ? I very much doubt that. Bob’s argument is that then Gazza would have cheated because then he would have redone his move…Lol…Bob has to be a noob to say this, because otherwise, he would know that a lot of players (including myself at least for tournament games) just test their turn by playing a LOCAL game turn, just to see how things are going before going with the real play by forum definitive turn…
Bob, have you ever seen a front to front boardgame player taking notes on a paper to evaluate the numbers of units and composition of 2 armies, or rolling a couple of dices just to see what the results could be ? You can see this in about every live session of A&A boardgame if the players are a bit experienced…the same thing goes with Triple A, sometimes, people test their turn using local game mode, and this is not cheating, as you seem to think…

But, as we often see, it is much easier to pretend being a victim and quit, than to try to calm down, discuss, and try to find a gentlemen’s agreement for a friendly game (lol, this is not even a league or tournament game !).

[gazza]

sorry axisplaya about this its not your falt at all you just tryed to help. but if you can see this bob dont quit you was getting the better anyway

dont let this stop you from doing somthing you enjoy its only a game man i would play you anytime

i just hope you come back

and axisplaya was just telling it how it is he never took sides what so ever he was just trying to help

[Cow]

ugh wut the…

Pretty sure you can rewind the clock on this.

[Gargantua]

Nope, you can’t rewind the clock on whiny poor-sportism.

[seth4god]

@bobgordon303:

Hey AxisPlaya - I know and respect your game. If my club is playing wrong, I’ve been robbed in the past. But all that aside, I have a German Fighter, two German Tact, an Italian Tact and an Italian Fighter sitting in Germany. And if you look at C9 of the turn Gazza only brought his transports and Did not give me the opportunity to scramble, so I should be able to edit the board, sink the 2 transports with my air and move forward.

Bob, we play with the right rules and can opener play like this has popped up in the past from time to time. Jonathan almost lost a game to this very thing.

[Cow]

wut?

Yeah you can rewind the clock. 1) he can scramble vs usa who sent lone transports to take denmark to begin with. Opponent never asked for scramble orders or sent anything to begin with.

I draw two conclusions from this

1. neither player knew or remembered the scramblings
2. bob didn’t know know the canal rules

Plus it is common courtesy to ask for scramble orders. So it is not like you can table pounce someone who didn’t act yet.

Also it is not like a bunch of turns passed. he did usa/uk only.

[Axisplaya]

@Cow:

wut?

Yeah you can rewind the clock. 1) he can scramble vs usa who sent lone transports to take denmark to begin with. Opponent never asked for scramble orders or sent anything to begin with.

I draw two conclusions from this

1. neither player knew or remembered the scramblings
2. bob didn’t know know the canal rules

Plus it is common courtesy to ask for scramble orders. So it is not like you can table pounce someone who didn’t act yet.

Also it is not like a bunch of turns passed. he did usa/uk only.

Bob didn’t know about the canal rules, but Gazza didn’t know about proper aplication of scrambling rules. That said, Gazza has probably done those moves BECAUSE OF TRIPLE A BUG not taking into account scrambling if territory containing the AB is not attacked…If allies just redo entirely their turn, then Germany WILL end up being taken by a single transport since USA CAN send enough units in sz112 to prevent the scrambling.

So these 2, if they want to continue and have a good game, should say something like this (IMO): USA can redo his turn as he wishes, but there is no taking Germany this turn. Period. This could work, and they still have a good game.

[Cow]

Honestly gazza, you should take back denmark/norway/berlin, because you did not send air to cover it and he could scramble.

He was never asked for scramble orders, common courtesy.

If you really want to insist on whatever then 2 fighters vs 2 fighter and a tactical. If your transport makes it through then you win. Simple as that.

So yeah either rewind that or fight for your win. I got to agree with bob, but this is a little dramatic.

[Cow]

I don’t think this can be blamed on a triple a bug… I mean triple a bugs ruined a bunch of my games especially during testing, but this wouldn’t ruin anything.

I mean if I popped open battlemaps to do italy and saw germany taken… I would be like wait wah? I didn’t get to scramble what?

So yeah you still end up asking for scramble orders either way. Just because it doesn’t pop up doesn’t maen you can’t roll it out on the forum and edit in the results.

In a live game, usually I end up just adding a transport german transport to the water and fly air over it, which would activate the scramble orders.

[Axisplaya]

@Cow:

He was never asked for scramble orders, common courtesy.

DUH….man, could you actually think about it and/or read the entire thread before saying something that stupid ? How could he have asked for scrambling orders since the program DOESN’T PROPOSE THE SCRAMBLING OPTION ??? (this is the bug we are talking about).

So don’t put all the blame on Gazza, he just did what he thought was legal, AND THE TRIPLE A PROGRAM allowed it !  That’s why we’re talking about the bug.

[Cow]

I am just happy triple a is around, because I tried typing my moves out and following what my opponents are doing with battlemaps… that didn’t work out for me, ended up being too much effort to do one thing, and every now n then someone moves a fighter an extra space and then there is a giant debate about a fighter… the worst is debating the existence of an infantry. I can’t handle that.

Anyway, some people do use triple a as just an advanced version of battlemaps. They just roll on the forum and edit all the results, you still save time from typing out all the movements and checking your opponent, the history tab is cool like that.

Anyway the fact remains, Bob would scramble, does Gazza want to send 2 fighters? If yes, then do it. Otherwise, you should take it back.
~
The program should ask for scrambling orders, you are right. However the player should know the rules too.

Keep in mind, you only get asked scramble orders when you click done on combat move. He did not escort his transports, so he didn’t know about the scramble… if scramble options popped up when he moved into combat… he would lose his transports in a lobby game (he could close the program and redo his stuff from the last save posted playing by forum).

Still as bob points out, the first two transports from america were not escorted, neither were the uk transport.

[Cow]

I understand the known bugs as of right now can be a pain. For now I recommend putting a transport in the sea zone to trigger the program’s scramble orders or rolling it out on a forum.

Just because there is a bug, don’t mean you don’t escort your stuff, that is exploiting.

TripleA doesn’t tell you the rules, that is why there is a testing process.  There are 205 pages of FAQ for global,  this is a pretty extreme game so you have to be flexible as a player when things come up.

205 pages of FAQ.

Anyway, I don’t blame the program when I don’t know the rules or misunderstand the rules. I blame the rules.