Next Nation to sculpt at HBG

[Yavid]

We have the early war tank (light) with the Matilda and we have the Mid War Tank (medium) with the Sherman I would be completely fine with just one tank if it was late war tank (Heavy)

[Lunarwolf]

i take back my vote for south africa being blonde. they are to clsoe to ivory , i rather see the blue grey that HBG had for their painted version of the South africans

[DrLarsen]

Don’t forget that the Gurkhas used a hat kinda similar to the Aussie hat.  I think a hat-wearing Commonwealth/ FEC soldier would be one of my highest priorities for a UK-oriented set.  Perhaps even a second in proper Gurkha-gear wielding a kukri overhead!  With FMG doing KBV, Nelson would be a good choice, as I hear WotC is doing Hood (strange choice though it is) for their joint-allied BB in AA41.

The Aussie Sentinels and Canadian Ram/Grizzle series were not used much, and are basically derived from US tanks (M3/M4 series) anyways.  I’d rather see someone do some of the late-war tanks for the UK set proper: Comet or Cromwell, maybe, though I don’t know what FMG is doing.  The Cromwell was the second-most used UK tank after…. drum-roll, please… the Sherman!  Yes folks, the Brits used more Shermans than any one particular tank of their own design.  The Churchill is distinctive and cool-looking, so I wouldn’t mind having some, but the fact remains that it really wasn’t that great of a tank, and the British couldn’t wait to get their hands on Shermans because, quite frankly, they were better than anything the Brits produced until the Comet and the Centurion (the latter of which came too late to see action.)

(OK, the Cromwell was better than the original Sherman in some ways, especially mobility, but it was too tight of a design for its gun to be upgraded, unlike the Sherman.)  Anyway, the Comet comes closest to being something that the UK player could used as a “heavy” tank upgrade, since, unlike the Churchill, its gun was at least competitive and its superior mobility gave it some advantages over the Tigers.  Yes, the Churchill was a comparatively “heavy” tank, but what’s the point of a “heavy” tank with a weak gun and thin armor that was way less mobile than a Tiger on top of it all?

[jim010]

On the topic of what to do next, how about completing the neutral set and sculpting a BB, CV, sb and a tac?

[Bob_A_Mickelson]

@jim010:

On the topic of what to do next, how about completing the neutral set and sculpting a BB, CV, sb and a tac?

I would love this, but doubt it will happen. I favor complete sets by far.

[Guest]

@jim010:

On the topic of what to do next, how about completing the neutral set and sculpting a BB, CV, sb and a tac?

I’ve noticed that the “dark grey” used for the axis minor set exactly matches the grey Germans from classic, and the brown they use for Italy exactly matches the brown Russians from classic.  I would bet that the yellow neutrals might be a close match to the classic Japanese.  So maybe you could recycle some of your old classic units.

[Lunarwolf]

i  mentioned a list before of what would be nice to see in the next neutral set. but before that i think other actual nations sets need to be completed, such as the Brits and their commonwealth, japan, france, italy, ect ect… but i agree would love to see another neutral filling in the missing units.

[DrLarsen]

A sub would be nice for the neutrals, but doesn’t HBG’s set already have a tac?  As for larger ships, when you get past the major powers (assuming that you include France and Italy in “major powers”), no one else really had much worth noting; maybe an elderly stray dreadnought or two or perhaps coastal BB’s (which were basically like slow heavy cruisers, capability-wise), but probably a cruiser is adequate to approximate the actual combat capability of any minor power’s largest gun-oriented ships.  CV’s were pretty much unheard-of for the minor powers until the post-war period, when many bought or were given older US or UK ships.  (Even then, such elderly CV’s were, relatively speaking, more like the CVE’s of their day, capability-wise.)

[Lunarwolf]

i dont think theres a tac for neutrals yet but the next neutral set should have at least coastal battle ships

[Variable]

We have the Fokker TV which is a medium bomber that can be used as the tac. It’s about the same size as the OOB Mosquito.

[Lunarwolf]

some ideas for the next neutral set

Poland and Greece are some of the most important of the minor nations should be represented and adds diversity to the neutrals infantry

Polish infantry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Polish_infantry_marching_-2_1939.jpg

A Greek infantry/ a generic partisan infantry can fit with many minor nations
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/508/eyzvnas4nm.jpg

I know everyone didnt like the Fokker Gi but it fits with the rest of the Fokker war planes in use already. it would fill in the role of Tac pieces perfectly

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1095&bih=705&tbm=isch&tbnid=7eNsNf2LvSvAdM:&imgrefurl=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D437664%26page%3D2&docid=NMmaDVsR3F0oiM&imgurl=http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php%253Fattachmentid%253D301300%2526stc%253D1%2526d%253D1315478169&w=1019&h=766&ei=2QMtT4_0HpDSiAKOua3aCg&zoom=1

Submarine: much needed especially when the dutch were known for there submarines in teh pacific
either the Dutch K XIV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_XIV_class_submarine
Or the Polish  Orzel class Sub
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORP_Orzeł_(1938)

a coastal defense ship; would fill in HBGs Global 1939 perfectly. much needed piece for the game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HMS_Oden.jpg

Medium Tank:this piece is more of a reach for my wish list. giving people the option to use medium tanks for their neutral forces .
The Dutch used Marmon-Harrington MTLS-1GI4 medium tank in the pacific, it has a neutral looking feel to it, IMO it looks perfect for a neutral medium tank
http://forum.valka.cz/attachments/796/mtls_1g14.jpg
its the tank on the right

and another pic; http://www.overvalwagen.com/images/mhbiga4.jpg

the PZL p.24 fighter, the P.24 was used my a number of differnt nations through out the war, including Greece, Poland, Bulgaria,Romania, and Turkey. this piece is very unique looking and again was represent 2 of the most important minor of WW2, Greece and Poland

http://www.pilotfriend.com/photo_albums/timeline/ww2/2/Panstwowe PZL P24.htm

last is Polish Cavalry i know no one uses this piece… yet  but if there is going to be a 1936 game eventually this piece is going to be needed. plus it still works for the 1939 map
as the Polish and Greek still had some cavalry in there armies.

http://images.suite101.com/462917_com_polishlancers1936.jpg

[DrLarsen]

@Lunarwolf:

some ideas for the next neutral set
Poland and Greece are some of the most important of the minor nations should be represented and adds diversity to the neutrals infantry
Polish infantry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Polish_infantry_marching_-2_1939.jpg
A Greek infantry/ a generic partisan infantry can fit with many minor nations
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/508/eyzvnas4nm.jpg
http://images.suite101.com/462917_com_polishlancers1936.jpg

The Polish infantryman is a good example of a good-looking modern uniform from a minor nation, but I’m not sure they’d have any relevance for non-polish armies.  The Greek soldier doesn’t look to me at all like a “generic” partisan.  I think I’d prefer a beret-wearing Frenchman, with, say, a sten gun, or perhaps a field-cap-wearing guy with a generic rifle.

I know everyone didnt like the Fokker Gi but it fits with the rest of the Fokker war planes in use already. it would fill in the role of Tac pieces perfectly
http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1095&bih=705&tbm=isch&tbnid=7eNsNf2LvSvAdM:&imgrefurl=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D437664%26page%3D2&docid=NMmaDVsR3F0oiM&imgurl=http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php%253Fattachmentid%253D301300%2526stc%253D1%2526d%253D1315478169&w=1019&h=766&ei=2QMtT4_0HpDSiAKOua3aCg&zoom=1
Submarine: much needed especially when the dutch were known for there submarines in teh pacific
either the Dutch K XIV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_XIV_class_submarine
Or the Polish  Orzel class Sub
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORP_Orzeł_(1938)

I think the sub is a good idea in theory, but it would need some “house rule” changes to make sense in game terms, as most rules-sets, these days, give subs lousy defensive ratings to make room for destroyers as a type.

a coastal defense ship; would fill in HBGs Global 1939 perfectly. much needed piece for the game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HMS_Oden.jpg

Again, I like the idea of a coastal defense ship in theory; they were used by all of the Baltic powers at one time or other and by the Netherlands.  I think the Sverige class would be a better choice, as it was the most modern of its type, worthy of actually taking on ships of the WW2 generation, and some claim that it was a significant deterant for the Germans (though there is plenty of room for skepticism on that claim.)

[Lunarwolf]

Sverige class looks great also. but about the Greek soldier it also can pass as any other  Balkin infantry.

i would also disagree about the polish infantry only working for them. The Dains, the Czechoslovakians, and the Swedish would fit also with the polish infantry. Czechoslovakia will probably be included in the 1936 game

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MftBM30EqYU/Tgh-1SpN8RI/AAAAAAAAFA8/NFMfHHdK1e8/s1600/Denmark%2B-%2B1940%2BJan.%252C%2BDenmark%252C%2BPrivate%252C%2BJutland%2BDivision.jpg

http://www.grantsmilitaria.com/militariaphotos/militaria_images.asp?key=104

http://www.ww2incolor.com/other/BE085317.html

the idea about the subs needing special rules are you think it should be 1 atk and 2 def instead?

[DrLarsen]

i would also disagree about the polish infantry only working for them. The Dains, the Czechoslovakians, and the Swedish would fit also with the polish infantry. Czechoslovakia will probably be included in the 1936 game

Well, you may be right about the pre-39 Czechoslovaks and post-39 Slovaks.  I’m not so sure about the Danes.  As for the Swedes, I think that their M26 helmets have more of that “sallet-type” look characteristic of German helmets and so would be better served by a German in a different color than by a Pole in a different color, as would the Finns and Hungarians, whose helmets are pretty much the same as the “Stalhelm.”

the idea about the subs needing special rules are you think it should be 1 atk and 2 def instead?

Well, I’m not sure.  Maybe just for neutrals?  Or perhaps giving them a one-shot “sneak defense”?  The thing is, neutrals, obviously, have no need to attack, and so in game terms can’t make much use of attack-oriented pieces.  (This, btw, is why the Dutch bomber ought to be played as a tac, not as a regular bomber, since regular bombers are almost useless defenders.)  This is where the “scale” of the game comes into play, because in a game on such a large strategic scale, the differences between strategic attack and tactical attack as a part of a defense inevitably get muddied.

[DrLarsen]

Yeah, looking at them again, I think I agree with you that the Fokker G.I. would have been a better choice than the Fokker T.V., as neutrals and minors need tacs more than regular bombers, and the G.I. is a cool-looking and interesting design.  But given that HBG made their TV Mosquito-sized, his T.V. works OK as a tac, so I’m thinking that adding another Fokker to the line-up is a low priority.

[Asterios]

not sure what this is about but i’ll throw some names in the hat:

Australian Coast Watchers
Canadian Air Troopers
German Sub Pens
MacArthur Royal Palace (+ his personal plane B-17 Bataan)
Peenemunde
German Ski Patrol

any of these help or am i way off base?

[Variable]

@DrLarsen:

Yeah, looking at them again, I think I agree with you that the Fokker G.I. would have been a better choice than the Fokker T.V., as neutrals and minors need tacs more than regular bombers, and the G.I. is a cool-looking and interesting design.  But given that HBG made their TV Mosquito-sized, his T.V. works OK as a tac, so I’m thinking that adding another Fokker to the line-up is a low priority.

Hopefully this pic helps the discussion here. Brit Mosquito and Halifax next to ivory Fokker TV.

[DrLarsen]

@Variable:

@DrLarsen:

Yeah, looking at them again, I think I agree with you that the Fokker G.I. would have been a better choice than the Fokker T.V., as neutrals and minors need tacs more than regular bombers, and the G.I. is a cool-looking and interesting design.  But given that HBG made their TV Mosquito-sized, his T.V. works OK as a tac, so I’m thinking that adding another Fokker to the line-up is a low priority.

Hopefully this pic helps the discussion here. Brit Mosquito and Halifax next to ivory Fokker TV.

Thanks, yes I think that does help.  It looks to me as though the TV gives the neutral player the option to go either way, but the sizing does seem closer to tac than regular bomber.

I just got my order, btw, Coach and I’m impressed!  You really do great work!  One thought that I have off the top of my head at first glance: the axis minor’s “mustard yellow” and the neutral’s “yellow green” are so close to being the same color and yet… not quite.  For future color runs, I’d recomend either more contrast or no contrast; having them the same color allows for mixing and matching, having clearly different ones allows them to be clearly distinguished, but having them that close seems like an the “worst-case-scenerio” to me (color-wise, that is).

But that’s just meant to be “for future reference” constructive criticism.  Overall, examining all these new pieces has me almost giddy with all the possibilities!

[Yavid]

@Variable:

Hopefully this pic helps the discussion here. Brit Mosquito and Halifax next to ivory Fokker TV.

i don’t know if it helps the conversation but it did make up my mind. I’m going to use ivory for my pro-allied neutrals, light grey for pro-axis, white for strict neutrals, orange for mongalians. I would like to ask are you ever going to sell the neutrals in individual units? I just want 14 white inf., 4 ivory, 3 light grey and 4 orange oh and maybe 5 yellowish green artillery for china.

[Variable]

Eventually? Yes. However, not likely before the Russian set comes out. Right now, they are still the “latest and greatest” set from HBG.