Just a year ago! Thanks for pointing out, I did miss that link to an important place.
It’s like a rip in the cloth of space and time!
Well, that was fun.
XPAD-01 Dairy Qyrn (AXIS) vs Team MountainHIGH
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I have played thousands of games these rules have always been the same.
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I need to see an official ruling that states otherwise.
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@Cow:
I need to see an official ruling that states otherwise.
Go to that thread again, I found a ruling from kreig himself. I’ll do the allies later, I spent time hunting corroboration in the FAQ since you were throwing a hissy fit and I didn’t want to proceed until all parties were satisfied with the rulings. Let me know if you’re ready to accept that you didn’t understand the rules and have been playing your ‘thousands’ of games on a flawed understanding of this rule.
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to be fair to cow, i don’t think you could build naval units in a hostile sea zone in classic and revised….
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to be fair to cow, i don’t think you could build naval units in a hostile sea zone in classic and revised….
Right, I address that in the other thread.
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The only time that you can load transports in a hostile sea zone is in the combat movement phase in which you declare war. This may only be done under those conditions if the transport started the turn in that sea zone and the sea zone has just become hostile as a result of the declaration of war.
This is Kreig’s ruling back in may of last year, he is a developer so he should be right, however I cannot find where the exception is stated in his rules. Since this game has no official faq pdf that I know of, it just aggrevates me, mostly because the rules don’t make it clear. All the other games I bought were finished products except this one and this was the most expensive of the bunch and it takes the longest to play.
I am not pissy at you seth, don’t take it personal. I just don’t ever remember something stopping a player from loading boats in revised and classic and I do remember this came up in aa50 several times and I never got a fucking answer, but a single cheesy russian destroyer placed in the baltic sea apparently stops sea lion in aa50, which is really exciting news (sarcasm). One would think that this would go in the FAQ pdf.
I cannot be upset, I can only be disappointed. A game should try to promote action not deter it. More importantly a game should also be a finished product when released.
I still want kreig to explain this, because I am remaining in the sea zone and conducting combat… the finished product does not say I cannot load my transports. It would take an intepretation of the rules to say otherwise and why would someone intepret the rules that way? Top this off with exception that is not stated in the rules. So before the exception to the rules came out countries not at war moved naval units to prevent transports from loading? Can you see where I am getting at?
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Also Kreig’s rules are on a forum, which can get edited by any moderator. It is not an official pdf nor is it in the rulebook. Rules clarifications should be in a FAQ pdf. Changes to the rules should be in an errata. However if Larry Harris came out and said something then I could go, “oh hey he meant it to be this way and he is the guy with his name on the front of the box, it is his game.”
Anyway do your turn seth. Place your destroyer, I won’t load the transports. I am pretty sure you need all the firepower you can get in the pacific. At least I get some free kills plus I can still smash that later or sink those ships you got there.
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Also this is Garg’s tournament, he solves all rules disputes.
I am sure Kreig is a cool guy, but Larry Harris created this game.
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I am pretty sure that garg will go with kreig, but so far I have always been wrong about what garg will do.
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Using Kreig logic I could load germany but not west germany, but I could not offload units from germany for combat, because the rules in that section do not say I can offload. Either I can do what is implied or I can’t. That is what is frustrating about his interpretation.
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We’re cool Cow, no worries. The exception can be found on page 3 just above the map section. I don’t know if there’s an Europe 1940 errata, but a quick search found no such thing. I’m hoping they include Global errata once the new editions come out.
http://www.wizards.com/\AvalonHill\rules\AA Pacific 1940 FAQ_VER1.pdfI still want kreig to explain this, because I am remaining in the sea zone and conducting combat… the finished product does not say I cannot load my transports. It would take an intepretation of the rules to say otherwise and why would someone intepret the rules that way?
It is in the rules though.
At the beginning of the Combat Move phase, you may
already have sea units in spaces containing enemy units that
were there at the start of your turn. For example, an enemy
may have built new sea units in a sea zone where you have
surface warships. When your turn comes around again, you
are sharing that sea zone with enemy forces.
If you are sharing a sea zone with enemy surface warships
(not submarines and/or transports), this situation requires
you to do one of the following:
� Remain in the sea zone and conduct combat,
� Leave the sea zone, load units if desired, and conduct
combat elsewhere,
� Leave the sea zone, load units, and return to the same sea
zone to conduct combat (you cannot load units while in a
hostile sea zone), or
� Leave the sea zone and conduct no combat.
Once these sea units have moved and/or participated in
combat, they cannot move or participate in the Noncombat
Move phase of the turn.The wording for this isn’t ‘you may’ or ‘you could’ . . . it’s “this situation requires you to do one of the following.” Nowhere in there does it list loading troops in a contested seazone as an option. Also, just because it doesn’t explicitly state that you can’t load troops in this situation doesn’t mean that it’s an allowed move. I could just say that US gets 50 ipcs extra every 10th turn and then point to the rules saying where does it say that I can’t get it. Obviously that’s a pretty extreme situation and no I’m not asking for another 50 (I’ll take it though if Germany/Japan wants to make a donation). But me dropping a DD into sz113 will create a situation covered by the rules above and on Germany’s turn, you will have to take one of the actions above.
It wasn’t possible to build into a hostile seazone in AAR and Classic. So this situation never came up in those iterations. I haven’t played classic in some time so my memory could be off. But say a transport was in sz A and some infantry were in a terr adjacent to sz B. I’m pretty sure that an enemy ship/fleet would prevent the first player from loading those troops in combat. I never played aa50, so I wouldn’t know about that game.
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From what I’m reading; I’m pretty sure your transports could leave the seazone, pick up the troops in Germany, and then offload all dudes into Norway. Isn’t it in the rules that you’re not supposed to load transports in a combat phase unless those troops will be used in that phase? Seems silly to state that you can pick up dudes and return to conduct combat if you can’t offload said troops.
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After reviewing the play, the ruling on the field stands.
You cannot load in a hostile Sea Zone - Even if you started there.
Ok, Page 16 in the Pacific book lays it out hands down.
“A transport cannot load in a hostile sea zone” Period.
On Page 8 of the ANNIVERSARY edition, the intent of the rule is explained much more clearly.
In fact, not too long ago, this happend to me, in a battlemap game I played…. I will dig it up.
We had a krieghund ruling on that too…
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http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=22486.0
Read the last two posts.
I fought this battle on your behlaf more than a year ago!
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@Cow:
At the beginning of the Combat Move phase, you may
already have sea units in spaces containing enemy units that
were there at the start of your turn. For example, an enemy
may have built new sea units in a sea zone where you have
surface warships. When your turn comes around again, you
are sharing that sea zone with enemy forces.
If you are sharing a sea zone with enemy surface warships
(not submarines and/or transports), this situation requires
you to do one of the following:
� Remain in the sea zone and conduct combat,
� Leave the sea zone, load units if desired, and conduct
combat elsewhere,
� Leave the sea zone, load units, and return to the same sea
zone to conduct combat (you cannot load units while in a
hostile sea zone), or
� Leave the sea zone and conduct no combat.
Once these sea units have moved and/or participated in
combat, they cannot move or participate in the Noncombat
Move phase of the turn.Here is what is not clear. 1st it states surface warships which transports are not. 2nd I am choosing to remain in the seazone, it does not state I cannot load units if I decide to do that.
A transport can load units while in any friendly sea zone along its route, including the sea zone it started in.
honestly, the rules were very clear. the part in bold is right there……
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Verq, I’m not sure I get the whole split fleet concept. But I’ll take it. This is the EPIC showdown between the IJN and the USN. I need to know if you want to scramble your fighter in Carolines or not. Cow, I invaded Denmark with a mech and I forgot you have to trick triplea into asking for scramble orders. I have 3dd, 2cv, 6ftrs vs a max of 3 defending fighters. I’m assuming no scramble and will play it that way, but we can go back and manually roll that if you want.
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I just thought of something else and would like to move 2 more transports out of sz112 and to sz104 in case there is combat in that zone and I’m precluded from moving in the ncm phase. Not bothering with the map as it’s a minor change and I’m pretty confident Cow’s not scrambling.
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OOL instructions for this battle would also be appreciated. We can do it turn by turn or however you want.
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That’s an interesting loophole. Scrambling - to prevent a fleet from moving in NCM… or it’s transports.
interesting…
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Yeah, I just thought of it and it seems like Germany could take really advantage of this in the right situation. Sacrificing one fighter might be worth stalling a shuck for a turn.
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