http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/devil-baby-strikes-new-york-city-article-1.1580159
We should not attack Iraq
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Yes,
the idea of being evenly yoked is better for the future of the relationship.
the husband/wife will most likely grow and encourage growth in the same areas as well as some others. Kids raised in one faith will at least have one.
When mom goes to church and dad goes to synagogue yagot problems. They fight over which faith to rear the kidsin :P . If one is stayin home the kids ask ‘why do I havta go?’ When given a choice between A and B in faith the kids usually chose C. Most kids ? their faith from about age 12 to 25(concentration is 14 to 22, I worked with 30 Arabs aged 18-22 , BOY did they push the limits of their faith while away from religious authority).
Children should learn the history of religion(s). They can understand that it comes down to FAITH. A lot of HISTORICAL FACTS CANNOT BE PROVEN. they are just stories(i.e., the civil war[photos -big deal], the Napoleonic Wars[letters, documents-whoopie]). The Kuran and Bible contra dict each other. The Bible was written first, but the Kuran seems to have remained unchanged. The Bible is correct , but the Kuran is God’s clarification. Jesus is the Son of GOd , but Jesus is just a prophet.
I value the history of my christian heritage. I loved learning new, hip songs as a teen, But didn’t like too many hymns. A few hymns grew on me and I learned each verse, not to mention the Christmas carols. Now, in my 40’s, I struggle with the new repetitive song of the church youth. I still love the songs that were new to my generation. However, I see the connection to hundreds of years of seekers through the old hymns and carols. I may not be singing the same chants the believers did in the catacombs, but I know the connection is there. FAITH.
And that isn’t even taking into account the prayers I know have been answered(not always the way we want it). I have been part of a prayer team in the past and had people report instant, temporary relief as well as delayed permanent relief. I have never seen a physical healing to which I could bear witness. However, I have had people come to me saying they were lost, injured, and/or searching and I said/prayed the right thing to help them be healed/find the answer. I am not sure how relationships with God work. He works in various ways. We have to seek Him. He has been with me when I walked out of the church and sought another way. But, I learned that individuals, churches, and businesses wrong us, since they are all made up of individuals.
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I am not omniscient, omnipresent, nor omnipotent. - Xi -
And by the way, I swtiched at age 12 without any help from my parents.
Haha, brave little american, you overcome the virus (the expression of Dawkins) and for that, because i know this is not always easy (even more in your situation), you have all my admiration. Agnosticism is a normal step towards Atheism :)
can understand that it comes down to FAITH.
I have a question, i ask it once but i did not get answer… so i’ll ask it again because i am stubborn :)
(pi) You can only believe in god with Faith, not with logic
(pii) Each religion is bases on faith
(piii) Faith is not a guarantor of the veracity of something
(ci) Each religion is as valid as the otherI am sure some will hate the conclusion, but it is true. If i have faith in an “evil” god that hate humanity and create us only to torture us when we will die; there is not a single reason to believe i am more wrong than any christian.
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can understand that it comes down to FAITH.
I have a question, i ask it once but i did not get answer… so i’ll ask it again because i am stubborn :)
(pi) You can only believe in god with Faith, not with logic
(pii) Each religion is bases on faith
(piii) Faith is not a guarantor of the veracity of something
(ci) Each religion is as valid as the otherI am sure some will hate the conclusion, but it is true. If i have faith in an “evil” god that hate humanity and create us only to torture us when we will die; there is not a single reason to believe i am more wrong than any christian.
You see, this is our problem. Your question looks extremely rhetorical (can you add an adjective before rhetorical?).
Also your reasoning is flawed in approaching your conclusion. The “validity of religion” has little/nothing to do with whether it is faith-based or not. Rather the validity of religion has everything to do with the original premise (sp?).
(ci) might be more appropriately considered “each religion may appear as valid as the other to a third party non-participant”.
Also your belief in that “evil god” has much to do with your relationship with it, your level of mental acuity, as well as those other things we look to for “validity in a religion”.
Question - going back to the “descartes” theory:
we have 2 people - one Christian, one atheist - both preaching their religion with fervor (one for Jesus, one anti-Jesus). Both die. What have they done? -
Hopefully, both of you have lived full, meaningful lives. We argue back and forth, reach little ground. Theories, evidence, proof, miracles, logic, what have you, etc., etc. We’ll all believe what we will, little will change it. The Great Unknown Mystery - death is this. No one can really say with absolute certainy what happens to us when we die. We have to wait to find out. Either way, Heaven, Hell, or nothing at all; we will have wanted our lives to be full and worth our stay here on earth. Finally, the end.
The interesting aspect of all the Diety/Religious posting is the amount of ill feelings and hatred towards certain faiths. Most use history to back this up. Personally, I believe very few of us have been wronged by an entire religious group right now. It’s easy to be angered by the wrongs of others in the past. Very few will argue any good for the Nazi’s defense. It would be wrong to hold it against today’s German people. The same goes for religious groups. Remember, all groups whether religious, political, social, etc. will abuse power when in a position of authority sometime in the past, present, future. It is the flawed human condition - someone will always want power, money, fame, on and on. They will be allied with some belief and/or political structure. Those people will commit crimes against humanity, be disposed of, over and over, again and again. Extremists will deviate from original beliefs and actions. Members of the original beliefs break away - true to their ways. Those who are save the group once the radicals are gone. Those are whom get hated (and improperly so) for the wrongs of their former companions or ancestors. Keep this in mind when we trash a belief system…
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I must’ve been gone for too long, but wasn’t the topic about whether or not to attack Iraq?
With respect to religion. I will say that religion is not some multiple choice question. You cannot simply eliminate all other religions less “valid” (if this is possible), and the one you have left is right. The problem is that there is no way to think of all possible religions that can be offered or if the right religion has even been discovered.
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@cystic:
can understand that it comes down to FAITH.
I have a question, i ask it once but i did not get answer… so i’ll ask it again because i am stubborn :)
(pi) You can only believe in god with Faith, not with logic
(pii) Each religion is bases on faith
(piii) Faith is not a guarantor of the veracity of something
(ci) Each religion is as valid as the otherI am sure some will hate the conclusion, but it is true. If i have faith in an “evil” god that hate humanity and create us only to torture us when we will die; there is not a single reason to believe i am more wrong than any christian.
You see, this is our problem. Your question looks extremely rhetorical (can you add an adjective before rhetorical?).
Also your reasoning is flawed in approaching your conclusion. The “validity of religion” has little/nothing to do with whether it is faith-based or not. Rather the validity of religion has everything to do with the original premise (sp?).
(ci) might be more appropriately considered “each religion may appear as valid as the other to a third party non-participant”.
Also your belief in that “evil god” has much to do with your relationship with it, your level of mental acuity, as well as those other things we look to for “validity in a religion”.
Question - going back to the “descartes” theory:
we have 2 people - one Christian, one atheist - both preaching their religion with fervor (one for Jesus, one anti-Jesus). Both die. What have they done?What i want to point out is that if religion is essentially base on Faith, not Logic, no religion can be considered false or more valid. Exemple; faith is on what christian base their religion, same thing goes for the ancient Celt, their gods are in pure contradiction with the christian god, but how can you claim their gods are mythology if the “tool” they use is the same as you; faith ?
About the Atheist and the Christian, you must first understand that Atheism is not a religion, all Atheism believe different thing; they are free. Exept some religion that are atheist like buddhism (most buddhist). If an atheist is “preaching”, it’s like an Empirist or a Rationalist, it’s not a religion; it’s a philogophy. About what they have done; the christian have spread lies to make him feel good, he give false hope and teach how to use faith instead of intellect… Nothing very constructive for humanity, that’s why you’ll see more and more humanist that are militant Atheist.
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About the Atheist and the Christian, you must first understand that Atheism is not a religion, all Atheism believe different thing; they are free
Agreed. Most of the Atheist I know believe in different ideals and philosophy and ideals (epistemological relativism, epistemological skepticism, ethical relativism or subjectivism, ethical absolutism, ethical realism in purely secular terms, materialism, narcissism, nihilism, humanitarianism, ect). It is NOT a religion and shouldn’t be treated as one.
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I’m proud to be Agnostic. I view everyone not Agnostic (except maybe Athiests, though they are included in this) to have flawed, stupid, and outrageous views on Religion.
However, I view the “Religions of the book” with a particular bloodthirst. These Religions believe in slavery, except they are the slaves. They believe in Facism, though few even know the definition of the word. They worship a God, and never stop to question his existance. At least other Religions believed their Gods weren’t omnipotent. They had flaws and competition. This God of the book has no flaws. To me, thats the truely stupid part of the Religions.
I look to myself for Religion. I am the most important person in the world to me, as it should be with everyone. Instead, people spend their lives “serving” Jesus or Muhammad, or fearing God’s wrath.
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At least other Religions believed their Gods weren’t omnipotent.
Unless you want to defy logic, there is no plausible way to believe God is omnipotent. And certainly not a “all loving” God.
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I’m proud to be Agnostic. I view everyone not Agnostic (except maybe Athiests, though they are included in this) to have flawed, stupid, and outrageous views on Religion.
However, I view the “Religions of the book” with a particular bloodthirst. These Religions believe in slavery, except they are the slaves. They believe in Facism, though few even know the definition of the word. They worship a God, and never stop to question his existance. At least other Religions believed their Gods weren’t omnipotent. They had flaws and competition. This God of the book has no flaws. To me, thats the truely stupid part of the Religions.
I look to myself for Religion. I am the most important person in the world to me, as it should be with everyone. Instead, people spend their lives “serving” Jesus or Muhammad, or fearing God’s wrath.
Probably as much as 90% of the Agnostic i knew became Atheist, myself included. It would probably, one day, seem to you like an unjustified compromise; i don’t think there is much people getting from Theist to Atheist without a little step between the two. Still, agnostic are free thinker, they need only their own will to pass throught life.
Of course, it also depent of your definition of Agnosticism & Atheism…. Agnosticism can be applied everywhere, not only in religion, it is an attitude to say “i don’t have enough information to claim something is true or false”. To some extend i am still Agnostic, i cannot say i am 100% sure god does not exist; that would not be logical. I just say he is as probable as the tooth fairy, for me it’s enough to claim god does not exist.
I am the most important person in the world to me, as it should be with everyone.
I disagree, you are nothing without the people around you. Just imagine how the world would be if you were alone; you will have no more purpose in life. Our purpose is the society we live in, we most make everything to keep this society in good shape.
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I care about the people around me. However, I come first. My needs are first, I would not take a bullet for someone. I might help them out, but I won’t starve so someone can eat.
Theres a good reason I am not an Athiest. There has to be some kind of a higher power. Every single culture in the history of the world has developed Religion. People are spiritual by nature. Established Religions have taken advantage of that spiritual nature and used it to serve their own interests.
I don’t think any higher being(s) care about what I do. Maybe I’m just a chesspiece in their game. Maybe I’m a play toy. Maybe I’m a God’s bastard son from a love affair in Las Vegas. Maybe I will be reincarnated. Maybe I’ll go to some blissful place. Maybe I’ll live my afterlife like Beatlejuice. I’ll find out when I die, for now I want to enjoy life.
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I care about the people around me. However, I come first. My needs are first, I would not take a bullet for someone. I might help them out, but I won’t starve so someone can eat.
Well, i bet that will change once you have kids.
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@F_alk:
Well, i bet that will change once you have kids.
That’s very true F_alk.
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YANNY, did I catch you in the middle of changing your PIC tonight?
I saw de X box under your Pengy :o :oops: :P :roll:
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I’m havin’ too much fun! - Xi -
Yanny - you are just a step away from an Athiest. Consider the possibility of no “Higher Power”. The world just got simpler, more basic, no goals, no destiny, just life living for the sake of living and/or surviving. No grand plan, no chess board, no pawns (us). Cultures develop religion to personalize the world they don’t understand. Even with our wonderful science and technology, we really still don’t understand. That’s why religion still exists, to cover your unanswered questions - The Higher Power. Let it go. Join us…
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No grand plan, no chess board, no pawns (us).
A chessmaster is nothing without his pieces.
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Exactly my point, no chessmaster…
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Ok, all you Athiests out there.
Name one culture that developed an Athiestic Culture from the get-go. Name one culture who didn’t develope a Religion.
Scientific Law - Something cannot come from nothing.
Where did the first “thing” come from anyway? All that matter had to come from SOMEWHERE.
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Agreed on all points. This can still be achieved without the burden of a “Higher Power”. We don’t know how our existence began, so give credit to a diety, quite unnecessary. Leave it to the unknown, possibly beyond our arrogant comprehension…
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Name one culture that developed an Athiestic Culture from the get-go. Name one culture who didn’t develope a Religion.
You can be atheist and religious; by exemple the buddhist. But well… without any religion or believe in mythology; none, none that i know anyway… so ?
Scientific Law - Something cannot come from nothing.
False. Study just a little quantum physic… you won,t need to go very deep into it to see how wrong you are. Even if it was true… there is not a single reason to believe it could be a form of intelligence…
Where did the first “thing” come from anyway? All that matter had to come from SOMEWHERE.
No… but even if Yes, it does not mean it is a god, an intelligence. You must understand that we are very weak, we are not very close to any objectivity, most of the time we use our legendary short vision to understand an object. When the first man look at the rain, they said it was the tear of a god, because it was for them the only way to understand sometime exterior; by passing by themself to understand. Same thing goes for the universe, for order et cetera… When something is ordered, “it must come from intelligence”, this is all non-sence, a short vision base on ourself as the ultime model to understand anything. You look how in history people try to find explanation based on the model of humanity, the sun was carried out by a god, the moon was the eye of a god, humans were created by human-like god (polytheis, & monotheism).
Fin
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