Awesome ! Glad your playing again.
Happy New Year !
'God', the Facist
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Well i vote “no” because even if god is not an all loving being (the flood is an international genocide and most people are probably in hell), i do not think he is a facist. Anyway as he does not exist, only what christian think is important and i am sure most see him as a loving god…
But there is a lot of problem of ethical problem with god…
- If god cannot be understand with logic, It must be with faith
- As faith is not more valuable in one religion
- All religion are equal
So the “we have the truth” statement is full of fallacies… and only Hinduism seem right on the subject; “The truth is One, but different Sages call it by Different Names”
- If god cannot be understand with logic, It must be with faith
- As some mind reject Faith
- God reject those who reject him, je reject those who choose not to be faithfull
So, god punish with eternal flame those who reject faith ? Why, if he love so much his child, does’nt he male himself a logical part of the universe ? How can an omnipotent being support a Black&White moral code ?
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I do agree with Yanny to some degree here. If a god does exist then I think he should respect me as a fellow occupant of the universe and sentient being. I don’t believe I need to praise him becuase he happens to be a particularly powerful being and could stike me down, if he so chooses, becuase I don’t stroke his ego, however it may be called. If god really has a problem with that and doing what I chose, whether or not it is sanctioned by god, then there isn’t really much I can do about it as a mere mortal; so I don’t worry too much about if my actions are the will of god.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t worship God because he can strike me down, I worship him because he is my creator. If you were a whino on the street and a billionare came and gave you money, gave you a house, a job, food and everything you needed in order to survive, would you not thank him and praise him?
God is like the billionaire, who when you’re at the bottom seems so powerful. He created you, gave you the power to choose your path, gave you the power to see, to hear, to feel, to smell, to taste. He has given you a soul, and now you’re just going to use what he gave you, without thanking him at all? It’s as though someone comes and helps you and you tell him to f**k off after he has finished helping you. D oyou not owe the being who created you some thanks?
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Dittos EmuGod, that was well said. Even if it is a rudementary reason for worshiping God, it is definitly a good place to start.
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I think you’ve kind of opened a can of worms here Yanny!
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This is nothing, I gave this speech to my Communications Badge group at a Boy Scout Camp. Ever heard of an angry mob?
Who taught you to be obeydient to your Creator? Who taught you of this false father? Stalin, Hitler, Saddam, and countless others were considered “Fathers”. Many tried to elevate themselves to Gods themself.
So, I can choose to obey God or not to Obey God. If I don’t obey Him, I am screwed for Eternity. Do you think he cares about me? Did he care about the planet when he flooded it? God is just as bad as any. He believes in eternal torture.
And no one has answered, what about those Non-believers.
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This is nothing, I gave this speech to my Communications Badge group at a Boy Scout Camp. Ever heard of an angry mob?
Who taught you to be obeydient to your Creator? Who taught you of this false father? Stalin, Hitler, Saddam, and countless others were considered “Fathers”. Many tried to elevate themselves to Gods themself.
So, I can choose to obey God or not to Obey God. If I don’t obey Him, I am screwed for Eternity. Do you think he cares about me? Did he care about the planet when he flooded it? God is just as bad as any. He believes in eternal torture.
And no one has answered, what about those Non-believers.
Given that the “eternal torture” you speak of is (i believe) an eternity away from God - whom you reject as a fascist myth, do you believe it to be such a torture?
Another way - for me, heaven has nothing to do with “gold-paved roads” or angelic choirs etc. but everything to do with being with Jesus (and God). Hell i don’t believe so much as a pit of fire (as we are no longer carbon based and have little fear of fire after we die) so much as an eternity not in the presence of God.
Really, i fail to see your problem here. If you’re a fan/friend of God - then you get to be with God in heaven at the end of things (which i like to think is pretty comfortable), if you’re NOT a fan of God (as clearly you are not) then you get to NOT be with God in heaven at the end of things (which i’m guessing would be relatively uncomfortable - not really my problem tho’).
Who taught me to be obedient to my creator? I think others have posted a good response to this. As far as “false fathers” i don’t really know where you’re going with this. We have been warned of false God’s and we know not to buy into one on earth. -
No, I don’t believe in torture.
For the purposes of this discussion, I’m going to pretend I am not Agnostic.
The Jews (as far as I know, correct me if I am wrong) believe Hell is just like you said. The better God liked you, the closer you are to him during your afterlife. But, the Christians and Muslims both believe hell is a place to punish, eternally, the people who do not have God’s favor.
My father is my father, not some God.
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The path God choose for me was the one I made out of it. Nothing less; nothing more. It will be a glorous one and a morbid one no doubt, but it is the one for he who has chosen.
God made mud.
God got lonesome.
So God said to some of the mud, “Sit up!”
“See all I’ve made,” said God, “the hills, the sea, the sky, the stars.”
And I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
Lucky me, lucky mud.
I, mud, sat up and saw what a nice job God had done.
Nice going, God.
Nobody but you could have done it, God! I certainly couldn’t have.
I feel very unimportant compared to You.
The only way I can feel the least bit important is to think of all the mud that didn’t even get to sit up and look around.
I got so much, and most mud got so little.
Thank you for the honor!
Now mud lies down again and goes to sleep.
What memories for mud to have!
What interesting other kinds of sitting-up mud I met!
I loved everything I saw!
Good night.
I will go to heaven now.
I can hardly wait…
To find out for certain what my meaning was…
And all the good things we did for you.
Amen. -
Lol, funny, did you make that up?
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By the way, on your so called “Freedom of Speech” comment. I do not want pointless comments like i got when i originally gave this as a speech to a group of Boy Scouts. Now, I admit to you this crowd is quite a bit better, but I got some comments that were not only “Unchristian” but also stupid, ranting, and based on just Religion faith.
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We have been warned of false God’s and we know not to buy into one on earth.
How can your god be more valid if you cannot prove him with logic ? How can Zeus and Odin be considered false god if the only way to have a contact with god is with faith, and faith is equal on all religion, how dare you to claim Zeus, Odin, Cernunnos and Athena are false god ?
Faith anyway is a negation of logic and creativity… We you need faith, you need NOT to be logic.
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Fin, for the purposes of this thread, I am assuming God exists. I do not believe that, and whether he exists or not is not the issue.
Zeus I would have to say is not a Facist. Zeus was more of a Human being. He lusted, “sined”, and was honest about it. He was not an all knowing benevolent one and only dictator like God. Zeus had other Gods that he led. He is not invincable. In fact, I think thats more believable than a Christian God. But that is not the issue, save it for another thread (or create another thread for it if you wish).
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:lol:
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“If you were a whino on the street and a billionare came and gave you money, gave you a house, a job, food and everything you needed in order to survive, would you not thank him and praise him?”
If I were a whino on the street I wouldn’t take a job, house, or money from a billionare just becuase he pitied me (at least I’d like to think so), so I render your example moot. Also, you state the reason for your worship as being that God created you and is therefor worthy of praise; I don’t think that’s right. I think there should be mutual respect, but not an acknowlegment that one being is better than another (this is assuming that God exists). So what if God can create people or the universe, he still deserve to be treated equally. I wouldn’t want anyone to worship me if I suddenly acquired god-like powers, even if I did create them for some reason. Maybe I carry the ideal of democracy too far, but it’s what I believe.
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“If you were a whino on the street and a billionare came and gave you money, gave you a house, a job, food and everything you needed in order to survive, would you not thank him and praise him?”
If I were a whino on the street I wouldn’t take a job, house, or money from a billionare just becuase he pitied me (at least I’d like to think so), so I render your example moot. Also, you state the reason for your worship as being that God created you and is therefor worthy of praise; I don’t think that’s right. I think there should be mutual respect, but not an acknowlegment that one being is better than another (this is assuming that God exists). So what if God can create people or the universe, he still deserve to be treated equally. I wouldn’t want anyone to worship me if I suddenly acquired god-like powers, even if I did create them for some reason. Maybe I carry the ideal of democracy too far, but it’s what I believe.
Do you respect the animals, bugs, and bacteria as equals to you? Or do you kill and eat animals, kill butgs for bothering you unintentionally? Let’s take it a step further. Plants are alive, do you respect them by cleaning up your trash and by helping them out by watering them? Or are we drawing the line between humans and other species but not humans and God? To God, we are like grasshoppers. Small and very weak.
About God not caring about the world, if he didn’t care then why rebuild it?
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Do you respect the animals, bugs, and bacteria as equals to you?
You know, all this about animals is crap… really. Nobody here have a reason to treat animals as inferior. Why someone believe that ? Because it make him feel good when he eat meat ? That’s hypocrisy ! Because animal are “less intelligent”, well wy not eating idiots ?
There is not a single argument for this kind of reductionism, it is only a pratical conclusion. Sure if they are inferior, no need to feel guilty when we eat them… Pratical, but without any basis.
Is there someone here that is able to make an argument for this thesis ?
About God not caring about the world, if he didn’t care then why rebuild it?
We must admit that if god care about the world he is caring by a very strange way… Sure some religious people (like CC) are clearly working for humanity, but not BECAUSE they are religous. I am sure if CC was an atheist he would have make the same contribution to humanity. So following a religion can help people feel good, it certainly not help the world. How many people die for all those fantaisies ? How many discoveries were torn apart and how many incoherent “theory” are around because of religions ?
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Do you respect the animals, bugs, and bacteria as equals to you?
You know, all this about animals is crap… really. Nobody here have a reason to treat animals as inferior. Why someone believe that ? Because it make him feel good when he eat meat ? That’s hypocrisy ! Because animal are “less intelligent”, well wy not eating idiots ?
There is not a single argument for this kind of reductionism, it is only a pratical conclusion. Sure if they are inferior, no need to feel guilty when we eat them… Pratical, but without any basis.
Is there someone here that is able to make an argument for this thesis ?
About God not caring about the world, if he didn’t care then why rebuild it?
We must admit that if god care about the world he is caring by a very strange way… Sure some religious people (like CC) are clearly working for humanity, but not BECAUSE they are religous. I am sure if CC was an atheist he would have make the same contribution to humanity. So following a religion can help people feel good, it certainly not help the world. How many people die for all those fantaisies ? How many discoveries were torn apart and how many incoherent “theory” are around because of religions ?
I’m not saying animals are inferior and we should not feel remorse in eating them, I’m saying that the relationship between humans and animals is similar as between living creatures and God. To an animal, say a squirrel, we appear to be omniscient and omnipotent. WE built these huge, strange box-like things that we go in and out of all the time. WE have these huge things that move that release all this gassy stuff. The animals see us as all-powerfulbecause of our great ability to create things such as structures. WE cna decide if the animals and plants shall live or die by how we run the world. Do we cut down this forest, or not? It is very similar with God. God has the power to create things that we cannot and can decide whether we will live or die. Does that make him a fascist? If so, then all people are fascists too, because we are like Gods ot the animals.
I believe that following a religion does help the world. Many religions encourage good relations between people, I know mine does. Religion also helps to inspire people to do things. When you are being taught to help people in your religion, will it not influence you to do so?
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I’m not saying animals are inferior and we should not feel remorse in eating them, I’m saying that the relationship between humans and animals is similar as between living creatures and God. To an animal, say a squirrel, we appear to be omniscient and omnipotent. WE built these huge, strange box-like things that we go in and out of all the time. WE have these huge things that move that release all this gassy stuff. The animals see us as all-powerfulbecause of our great ability to create things such as structures. WE cna decide if the animals and plants shall live or die by how we run the world. Do we cut down this forest, or not? It is very similar with God. God has the power to create things that we cannot and can decide whether we will live or die. Does that make him a fascist? If so, then all people are fascists too, because we are like Gods ot the animals.
I always find comment about god a litte funny, you know comrade most religion have a different vision of god. No religion is able to make a logical, without any fallacies, argument for the concept of god, but they are extrapolating lots of behavior from nothing to create the perfect image of a creator… How do you know if god care ? Maybe he just want us to die ? Maybe he just want us to fight so he could sit with popcorn and watch us because he is bored. You cannot make any argument for god, any interpretation is therefore very subjective…
Hitler believe god want to exterminate the jew. How can you consider he was not right if you cannot even know what god is exept with blind faith ?
About animals and us, you would be like god to a primitive human still he is very similar to you. Anyway you are exactly doing what i said; you say we are not equal to animals but you just accept this conclusion witout any reason, why do you believe we are superior/not equal to animals ? There is a reason or it just suited your belief ?
And sure this is not facism but it is close… Even the word animals often exclude us, still we are very similar to Gorilla but they are animals, we are not. This is coherent ?
I believe that following a religion does help the world. Many religions encourage good relations between people, I know mine does. Religion also helps to inspire people to do things. When you are being taught to help people in your religion, will it not influence you to do so?
It certainly does not only bad thing… but it is not a contributor to humanity, it’s more like a burden… I really wish i could see the day were humanity would live for the progress of humanity, with reason and creativy, without fantasies. I will never see that day, but at least i am working for my future childrend and grandchildrens so they might see that day; we call that humanism.
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Hitler believe god want to exterminate the jew. How can you consider he was not right if you cannot even know what god is exept with blind faith ?
Of course you omit the fact that many Nazi’s were followers of Nietzsche who managed to twist his theories into support of he superiority of a German race . . . . You always appear to try to make Christians and “the Christian God” out to be the bad guy.
About animals and us, you would be like god to a primitive human still he is very similar to you. Anyway you are exactly doing what i said; you say we are not equal to animals but you just accept this conclusion witout any reason, why do you believe we are superior/not equal to animals ? There is a reason or it just suited your belief ?
I wonder what Freud would have said about this.
Is it because we may (though we do not always) keep our animal instincts in check, answering more to our reasoning?
If we were on the same level as the animals, following our animal instinct, I dare say this conversation would be impossible as I would be out eating and having sex right now.I believe that following a religion does help the world. Many religions encourage good relations between people, I know mine does. Religion also helps to inspire people to do things. When you are being taught to help people in your religion, will it not influence you to do so?
It certainly does not only bad thing… but it is not a contributor to humanity, it’s more like a burden… I really wish i could see the day were humanity would live for the progress of humanity, with reason and creativy, without fantasies. I will never see that day, but at least i am working for my future childrend and grandchildrens so they might see that day; we call that humanism.
Some (myself included) would argue that Jesus was a great humanist (and feminist). If people do good things for the world compelled by their love for JC, then how is this such a great burden? Many people do this, daily, bringing light, peace, food, water, literacy, medical care, etc. to very uncomfortable parts of the world and they do this in the name of Jesus, and they believe that the love of Jesus and the work of the Holy Spirit gives them the strength and will to do this. They work with love, creativity, using all their faculties (including reason), whereas the fantasy is the rainbow at the end of the rain. How is this a burden? How is this not humanistic?
Jesus once said “whoever is not against us is for us” - I believe this to mean that people who work towards a common goal should be united and strengthened by this. You seem to say that they should be divided with some of them eliminated (or at least their reasons for doing good should be eliminated). -
@cystic:
Hitler believe god want to exterminate the jew. How can you consider he was not right if you cannot even know what god is exept with blind faith ?
Of course you omit the fact that many Nazi’s were followers of Nietzsche who managed to twist his theories into support of he superiority of a German race . . . . You always appear to try to make Christians and “the Christian God” out to be the bad guy.
I can only admire you and emugod for your technique, you never answer anything i ask… My question is still the same, why Hitler’s interpretation of god is less accurate than yours as you can only see god with faith ?
About Nietzsche you know i have said SEVERALS time there was a great distinction between a doctrine and those who apply it, that is why i do not claim thing like “christian are hatefull”, but Christianism AND christian are working against evolution. Also if you read just a little Nietzsche, you will see how much he dislike germans and antisemitism… Note also that even if Nietzsche influence my a lot i do not consider myself a Nietzschean.
About Animals again you did not answer me.
Why Humans are superior/not equal to Animals ?
CC you have certainly work with biology ! We are as animals as a cats, our brain just give us the biggest culture on earth; we are still animals, acting like animals. I have some difficulties to understand that; all your life CC you will act like an animals, you will try to approch/impress woman, you will think of her, you will maybe even get in competition with other male, you will try to live, you will have passions, still you will deny you are an animals ?.. animals with technology and with a big culture but this does not make us apart from the animal kingdom. And as strong as the christians denial is on the subject; we have no reason to believe Humanity is apart from Animality, we call than anthropocentism and this is not a very nuanced standpoint.
Some (myself included) would argue that Jesus was a great humanist (and feminist). If people do good things for the world compelled by their love for JC, then how is this such a great burden? Many people do this, daily, bringing light, peace, food, water, literacy, medical care, etc. to very uncomfortable parts of the world and they do this in the name of Jesus, and they believe that the love of Jesus and the work of the Holy Spirit gives them the strength and will to do this. They work with love, creativity, using all their faculties (including reason), whereas the fantasy is the rainbow at the end of the rain. How is this a burden? How is this not humanistic?
Jesus was maybe an humanist 2 000 year ago, but his follower and his doctrine are now only teaching obscurantism.
Jesus once said “whoever is not against us is for us” - I believe this to mean that people who work towards a common goal should be united and strengthened by this. You seem to say that they should be divided with some of them eliminated (or at least their reasons for doing good should be eliminated).
Undoubly i am AGAINST jesus, i am for my species and for my planet, not for fantaisies and i believe it is important that thinkers continue the war (philosophical) for humanism.
So my two question (to be sure you answer them).
1; why Hitler’s interpretation of god is less accurate than yours as you can only see god with faith ?
2; how Humanity can be superior/not equal to Animality ?
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