@TM:
I do my best to believe in the Bible… :(
Herrn FinsterniS,
Pascal’s Wager showed that you should believe in God with all your heart, as there is nothing to lose, but everything to gain from that choice if that it was correctly made. I do not think Christians or undecideds should believe in this. Simply choosing God because you might ‘get yours’ in the end is not the answer. It only shows you working selfishly to help obtain a possible eternal reward. One’s hope, inner goodness, and true compassion towards others should be its own reward. My only reasonable response is that Christians or any other theist should stray away from this scare tactic to force people to convert to their religion. Religion should be chosen from faith and love in God… not because it offers a possible payoff.
excellent response. TM - you are wise beyond your years.
Gotta’ love Augustine - “love God and do what you like”.
@TM:
I do my best to believe in the Bible… :(
Herrn FinsterniS,
Pascal’s Wager showed that you should believe in God with all your heart, as there is nothing to lose, but everything to gain from that choice if that it was correctly made. I do not think Christians or undecideds should believe in this. Simply choosing God because you might ‘get yours’ in the end is not the answer. It only shows you working selfishly to help obtain a possible eternal reward. One’s hope, inner goodness, and true compassion towards others should be its own reward. My only reasonable response is that Christians or any other theist should stray away from this scare tactic to force people to convert to their religion. Religion should be chosen from faith and love in God… not because it offers a possible payoff.
Perfectly reasonable even if i still think religion is harming our society, probably even more america and underdevelopped society (sadly).
I was under the impression that this topic was the Christian Bible, not others religions such as Buddhism…correct me if I’m wrong.
Jesus said that he came to the Earth to divide.
One of a Christians duties is tell everyone that Jesus is the Messiah, and then let every one decide for themselves… That IS division… by personal belief and choice. If a Christian is using a “Scare Tactic,” then he needs to grow in his understanding of the Gospel. Try Galatians.
As far as the Bible’s reliability goes, however, there are more accounts of Jesus life and miracles OUTSIDE of the Bible than in. Ask any Roman soldier.
@city:
As far as the Bible’s reliability goes, however, there are more accounts of Jesus life and miracles OUTSIDE of the Bible than in. Ask any Roman soldier.
Bring one to me, i speak a bit of latin….
Perfectly reasonable even if i still think religion is harming our society, probably even more america and underdevelopped society (sadly).
How so? Besides the work of some creationist fundamentalist, I not exactly sure if Christianity is more of plague than a benefit to our society. Christians do contribute a lot to underdeveloped societies, just take a look Christian missionaries in Africa and Latin America. As long as there are no forced conversions or anything on those grounds (TM mentioned Pascal’s Wager), I’m okay with this.
The Bible is a collection of stories, and even I admit there are some really good stories in there, but like all stories, its still fiction.
:lol:
The Bible is a collection of stories, and even I admit there are some really good stories in there, but like all stories, its still fiction.
The last time I checked, fiction does not turn into reality. Yanny, how do you explain the fulfilled prophesies of the OT?
Do you think the life of Jesus was made up? He has been shown to exist.
How are eyewitness accounts fiction?
LOL, Where is your proof that Jesus exist.
No scientific body with any credibility would agree with your claim.
@Mr:
The Bible is a collection of stories, and even I admit there are some really good stories in there, but like all stories, its still fiction.
The last time I checked, fiction does not turn into reality. Yanny, how do you explain the fulfilled prophesies of the OT?
Do you think the life of Jesus was made up? He has been shown to exist.
How are eyewitness accounts fiction?
LOL, Where is your proof that Jesus exist.
No scientific body with any credibility would agree with your claim.
Actually there are some Roman historians who have documented Jesus’ existance. Sorry i can’t readily produce them. The fact that a “prophet” name Jesus wandered Palastine/Israel around 2000 years ago is rarely contested. Usually the question is “is he who he says he is, and did he truly die and rise from the grave”?
I can belive a guy named Jesus.
What the bible says he does with the miracles and things like that is what I question.
When you say Roman historians do you mean from back then or now?
Actually there are some Roman historians who have documented Jesus’ existance. Sorry i can’t readily produce them. The fact that a “prophet” name Jesus wandered Palastine/Israel around 2000 years ago is rarely contested. Usually the question is “is he who he says he is, and did he truly die and rise from the grave”?
Agreed, but some things are’nt historical, like the great entry of Jesus in Jerusalem. It seems that the Romans did not see that :)
I would say he truly die :)
… but he did’nt rise from the grave
:lol:
:lol:
:lol:
Agreed, but some things are’nt historical, like the great entry of Jesus in Jerusalem. It seems that the Romans did not see that :)
Just because we cannot find documentation elsewhere does not mean it did not happen. There is not any documentation anywhere that I ate breakfast today; but that does not mean it did not happen.
If we find documentation stating otherwise, that is another situation. I have never read or heard of any historical documents or archaelogical finds which have proven the Bible false.
I haven’t found anything to prove the Bible as fact.
Are you aware of the Norse, the Celtic, the Shintoist prophesies ?
The above is what is known to everyone as mythology. None of it has come true. The Bible on the other hand has had prophesies which have been fulfilled. Mythology does not come true; it is fiction. I cannot see where comparisons between the Bible prophecy and the above mythology make sense.
What prophesies have “come true”?
And even if they did “come true” that alone is not proof that the Bible is true.
Jesus Christ is no more/less mythological/real then Zeus or, like FinsterniS says, the tooth fairy.
Agreed, but some things are’nt historical, like the great entry of Jesus in Jerusalem. It seems that the Romans did not see that :)
Just because we cannot find documentation elsewhere does not mean it did not happen. There is not any documentation anywhere that I ate breakfast today; but that does not mean it did not happen.
If we find documentation stating otherwise, that is another situation. I have never read or heard of any historical documents or archaelogical finds which have proven the Bible false.
There also is no record of the fact that I woke up this morning with a tail.
But now its gone.
Are you aware of the Norse, the Celtic, the Shintoist prophesies ?
The above is what is known to everyone as mythology. None of it has come true. The Bible on the other hand has had prophesies which have been fulfilled. Mythology does not come true; it is fiction. I cannot see where comparisons between the Bible prophecy and the above mythology make sense.
hahaha, Christianism is know to be a mythology too. By the way, Odinist still exist and while you won’t find lots of prophecies in it; there was prophecies and some were probably fullfilled (not the Ragnarock yet but the invasion of foreigner was). There was lots of account of vikings chief having vision of Hugin and Munin before a sucessfull raid. I don,t know a lot about celtic prophecies, but i am sure some have been fulfilled. Also the prophecies of the End of the World is very similar to the christian mythology. The only real distinction between the Christian Mythology and the Norse Mythology is that one is still very strong, while the other is making a near death experience :)
If you want to choose wisely your religion, you should look about other one before making a choise (not serious)
Just because we cannot find documentation elsewhere does not mean it did not happen. There is not any documentation anywhere that I ate breakfast today; but that does not mean it did not happen.
If we find documentation stating otherwise, that is another situation. I have never read or heard of any historical documents or archaelogical finds which have proven the Bible false.
True, but there is no reason to think it is true either…
If the bible is true, and god exist
Then why god would make him so hard to see with logic ?
Why so many scientist/philosopher are atheist ?
And if god does exist (and he does’nt)
Then the bible is making a very big error.
If the bible is true, and god exist
Then why god would make him so hard to see with logic ?
Why so many scientist/philosopher are atheist ?And if god does exist (and he does’nt)
Then the bible is making a very big error.
“why so many scientist/philosopher are atheist?”
wow that’s terrible. I seem to remember you jumping on someone for referencing the 85% of the world who are theist (i.e. YB and myself). Also i know a great many scientists who are not only theists, but Christians to boot. But of course this is meaningless unless the numbers are used to prove your point?
Also Christianity/religion is not about logic. We’ve been over this. It’s about faith. “with faith the size of a mustard seed you could move mountains”. Can you believe in something you cannot see? (besides the wind) You can not see, or prove (beyond a doubt) God, but you can see the effects that God has on the lives of his people and of the planet (unless you choose to ignore them/paint them with other attributes).
If God exists then the bible is making a big error? How?
And people assail the bible asking for documentation that it is factual/believable. This is not asked so much of other historical documents. Funny that people require other documents to prove the bible - other documents that require no proof as to their own validity? The thing is, the bible has been in circulation (various parts) for thousands of years. It and parts of it have been referenced for approximately the same period of time. In efforts to quash the bible and its teachings Rome systematically attempted to wipe it (and all Christians) out until 303 AD (give or take). It’s tough to find documentation with these set backs.
