International Crimminal Court

[TM Moses VII]

“Also why i vote yes is that one day, we will need an international court to juge war crime fairly, not the “justice of the victor”, but a fair judgement. I don’t know if this court will work out, but i think we must put hope in it.”

Monsieur FinsterniS is right, I think. In time we must learn that war crimes should not be punishment on behalf of the victors rendered on to the losers, but the judgment on those held accountable from both sides. The International Committee Court, I hope, will serve as one step foward to global unity.

‘I have faith in humanity, and humanity should have faith in itself.’ ~ Moses

“Also i am strongly against what Horten said about “immunity for NATO member”, no single country should have immunity, this is against every basic principle of justice. All country outise NATO would find this to be unfair; and it would be !”

No country, no matter how large or how small, how strong or how weak, should have special privileges if we want this Court to work. As a American, I would not ask for any more or less.

[cameron]

“Should America sign the International Crimminal Court treaty?
  Yes, bend America to Europe’s will!
  No, the court will not go after the actual baddies”

do you not think you could start with a less biased question? the one you’ve posted is so biased as to suggest that you have no interest in others’ opinions, rather that you want to vent… in which case why bother with the poll?

it was an american suggestion anyway - i think the real problem the usa is having is that they wouldn’t be a dictator in it but rather an equal…

there’s a reason the majority of the world dislikes and distrusts the usa and decisions like these don’t do anything but enforce those feelings…

grrr… i meant to keep out of these discussions…

[cystic crypt]

@cameron:

“Should America sign the International Crimminal Court treaty?
  Yes, bend America to Europe’s will!
  No, the court will not go after the actual baddies”

do you not think you could start with a less biased question? the one you’ve posted is so biased as to suggest that you have no interest in others’ opinions, rather that you want to vent… in which case why bother with the poll?

it was an american suggestion anyway - i think the real problem the usa is having is that they wouldn’t be a dictator in it but rather an equal…

there’s a reason the majority of the world dislikes and distrusts the usa and decisions like these don’t do anything but enforce those feelings…

grrr… i meant to keep out of these discussions…

you’re missing it Cam - the vent IS the reason for the poll. Also these polls etc. stimulate conversation. Furthermore, regardless of the tone of the question, you see many posts that disagree with the author’s spirit. A&A players are smart enough to see through these :)
And i agree with you (i think) - the Americans do need to further clean up their international image (especially in light of Bush’s Godzilla-like prance through world politics.

[HortenFlyingWing]

@FinsterniS:

@TG:

Yes, another problem would be if there would be capital punishment under the ICC.

I don’t think Europe would accept capital punishment.

Also why i vote yes is that one day, we will need an international court to juge war crime fairly, not the “justice of the victor”, but a fair judgement. I don’t know if this court will work out, but i think we must put hope in it.

Also i am strongly against what Horten said about “immunity for NATO member”, no single country should have immunity, this is against every basic principle of justice. All country outise NATO would find this to be unfair; and it would be !

John Ashcroft visits Europe on vacation. Someone accuses him of warcrimes! Same with soldiers. It is that simple. We have to prevent that for our militaries.

The victor writes history…he might as well control the courts…it is not like an international court would not be unbiased. If certain people don’t get the death pelenty, and if that’s the go to court, then it isn’t serving its purpose.

[TG Moses VI]

@TM:

Monsieur FinsterniS is right, I think. In time we must learn that war crimes should not be punishment on behalf of the victors rendered on to the losers, but the judgment on those held accountable from both sides. The International Committee Court, I hope, will serve as one step foward to global unity.

‘I have faith in humanity, and humanity should have faith in itself.’ ~ Moses

All of this, and you’re still not communist!? What is with you!? :o

@YB:

The reason I say that Moses is not conservative, because in individual issues, such as International Court, Communism. he does not side with conservatives. If you wanna see an American conservative, look at Horten (Capitalist).

Oh and Moses, flag waving does not make you a conservative.

First of all, I wasn’t even allowed to state my position in full. Remember, nothing is as it seems. First, many conservatives do support the ICC. However (and there is ALWAYS a “However”), the current ICC court that we have, is flawed. I’m sure I’ve highlighted some of the problems with the ICC already (such as adjusting existing judical laws in those countries, capital punishment). Then we have the whole NATO and American problem. But like FinsterniS said, there will a be a time when we do need something as the ICC. And I do not think very many conservatives will disagree (or at least the ones I know in the YRC) with me on that. But at least, I’m trying to work to solve the problem.

And by golly, flag waving is a very conservative pratice! :)

@HortenFlyingWing:

John Ashcroft visits Europe on vacation. Someone accuses him of warcrimes! Same with soldiers. It is that simple. We have to prevent that for our militaries.

Whoa, this is true!? I swear, those Europeans! :wink:

[HortenFlyingWing]

read US weekly news and world report

[TG Moses VI]

Well, since I don’t subscribe to any of those victicrat magizines, exactly what sort of war crimes was John Ashcroft accused of?

[cystic crypt]

@HortenFlyingWing:

John Ashcroft visits Europe on vacation. Someone accuses him of warcrimes! Same with soldiers. It is that simple. We have to prevent that for our militaries.

The victor writes history…he might as well control the courts…it is not like an international court would not be unbiased. If certain people don’t get the death pelenty, and if that’s the go to court, then it isn’t serving its purpose.

Poor John Ashcroft (he says sarcastically).
When i tried to vacation in Europe i was accused of being an American, so John-boy can just stick THAT in his pity-pipe and smoke it!
(stupid Britishers . . . can’t tell a Canadian from an American . . . bunch of regional savages . . . ).

[TG Moses VI]

Ha, teaches you. Britian is the worst place to go. :P
Horrible weather, bad food, snobbish people, and their American isn’t that good. :roll:

[TM Moses VII]

“All of this, and you’re still not communist!? What is with you!?”

Well… only if you ask nicely and let me spend some more time on the computer :D :wink:

“Ha, teaches you. Britian is the worst place to go. :P”

Moses, I would be surprised if you did not complain about every place you went to! Her Majesty’s United Kingdom is really not that bad of a place to go :)

[Yanny]

Been to Canada, France, Britain, and Italy, I’m telling you, stay on this continent :)

[TG Moses VI]

@TM:

Well… only if you ask nicely and let me spend some more time on the computer :D :wink:

Yeah, you wish! The day you see this happening is the day I grow three legs and sprout into a flying hippopotamus :P

@TM:

Moses, I would be surprised if you did not complain about every place you went to! Her Majesty’s United Kingdom is really not that bad of a place to go :)

Bah-humbug! THe only other place I rather be than in California is that South. That way I’m not looked down as some foreigner – and you know how the rest of the world “hates” Americans.

[cameron]

“and you know how the rest of the world “hates” Americans”

silly, we don’t hate all americans. we hate the usa… individual americans are human beings just like the rest of us… it’s just the lack of compassion in your institutions that i hate…

[Yanny]

America hates the world. America is the world’s bully.

[yourbuttocks]

I’m back! Did anyone miss me? I missed all the anti-American rhetoric.

I understand that America is not perfect. As a nation we have stepped on toes and caused damage. But the anti-americanism is more about a convient target and American culture than anythin justified.

About the crimminal court, it would be useless, as it would have no juridistiction outside of Europe and possibly Japan and the U.S.

Meanwhile, human rights abuses are rampant in much of Asia, South West Asia and Africa.

[TM Moses VII]

“I’m back! Did anyone miss me?”

I DID!!! :D

"About the crimminal court, it would be useless, as it would have no juridistiction outside of Europe and possibly Japan and the U.S.

Meanwhile, human rights abuses are rampant in much of Asia, South West Asia and Africa."

For the Criminal Court to work, every country must have equal representation and equal say. The United Nation is one example of an organization that suffers too much from being run too much by American and European interest. The Criminal Court should let the smaller countries’ voice be heard, to let them know that they also make a difference.

[TG Moses VI]

“I’m back! Did anyone miss me? I missed all the anti-American rhetoric.”

Ha, some return. :wink:

Anyways, I have a qustion about the ICC. Can the countries that do NOT sign the treaty still be held accountable for war crimes and the like?

[FinsterniS]

For the Criminal Court to work, every country must have equal representation and equal say. The United Nation is one example of an organization that suffers too much from being run too much by American and European interest. The Criminal Court should let the smaller countries’ voice be heard, to let them know that they also make a difference.

The USA doest not want that… in fact the USA are making lots of thing against the international community, i wonder how it will finish… the Agriculture financement, the Steel problem, Kyoto, International Court and more recently the USA did’nt sign the protocol against torture, theses are all problems that are raising antiamerican feeling in Europe…

@TG:

"Anyways, I have a qustion about the ICC. Can the countries that do NOT sign the treaty still be held accountable for war crimes and the like?

No, that’s why the USA does not want it sign, they know some of their generals would be accused. The ICC might only work if all country sign it, it would not be easy but one day we will need an international court so we are better starting now.

[TG Moses VI]

“No, that’s why the USA does not want it sign, they know some of their generals would be accused. The ICC might only work if all country sign it, it would not be easy but one day we will need an international court so we are better starting now.”

Well, I not sure that it’ll will work. If your country was responsible for crimes against humanity, would you sign the agreement? So far this has proven true for many “tyrant” countries refusing to sign the Treaty. How would you get them to sign? In fact, two-thirds of all world governments, representing about five-sixths of the world’s 6 billion people, are not party to the global court treaty. And who is going to pick up the $100 million annual price tag for a prosecutor and 18 judges? It may be hard to raise this amount of money without the United States and Japan (both of which have not ratified), who supply nearly one-half of the U.N.'s annual budget.

[cystic crypt]

With regards to America - i see it less as acting against the rest of the world, and more as acting “for America”. Given the amount of “anti-American” sentiment, as well as the world’s double-standard against it’s (arguably) greatest power, i can see why America chooses to act in what appears to be its immediate best interests, despite the wishes of the international community.
Furthermore, what has the international community ever done for America? America has donated soldiers, food, money, etc. to help countries that has wronged her (and yes, sometimes an agenda was in place), and yet the international community repeatedly comes down on America.
As a non-American i can see it’s hesitancy to enter a contract such as the ICC. If this concept went against time-honored Canadian values, i would be loathe for us to sign it - especially if Canadians would more likely be targetted by it.
All i am saying is let’s get a little perspective - America’s unwillingness to attach itself to the ICC is at the least understandable, and at worst a thorn in the sides of those who wish to create a redundant institution at the expense of improving existing institutions.