@Vance:
Hmmm so how about if you were to build an airbase in Norway and land 3 fighters G1. You could provide scramble cover to your sub in z125, and double scramble (3 tac in W Ger) for your transport, destroyer and cruiser in z112. Then keep shuttling infantry from West Germany with your transport. Notice planes from Norway can also hit Novgorod or Belarus and land in East Poland if Norway has an airbase. :-)
PLUS if UK feels too safe round 1 (ie sails the fleet away to the med, builds an IC in egypt, no infantry in London etc) and Russia pulls back to Archangel you COULD still build a wack of transports and go for England. Nothing says “no sea lion” like G1 Barbarossa LOL.
Good idea, this could be a good counter strategy, to a future allied counter move against the G1 attack on Russia.
z125 also baits the British fleet. No scramble if they bring planes but you get the ships next turn.
AB in Norway instead of a CV on G1?
Still leaves 15 IPC to work with which can equate to replacing an aircraft lost on the G1 attack in SZ’s 110/111 and even a gasp tech roll if you are feeling lucky (Although a Tac and Art may be a better choice).
Interesting concept if you keep your BB and CR in SZ112 and don’t use the BB in attacking SZ110/SZ111.
AB in Norway instead of a CV on G1?
Still leaves 15 IPC to work with which can equate to replacing an aircraft lost on the G1 attack in SZ’s 110/111 and even a gasp tech roll if you are feeling lucky (Although a Tac and Art may be a better choice).
Interesting concept if you keep your BB and CR in SZ112 and don’t use the BB in attacking SZ110/SZ111.
I would probably do it later when I’m sure I can keep 6 fighters there.
If you build the airbase and a destroyer and save $7 you will have an even $70 in hand. It would be interesting to see a game where UK doesn’t see the threat and leaves London naked so you go ahead and pull off a sea lion after your g1 barbarossa LOL. If that is at least POSSIBLE, then UK has to build infantry round 1, and if you were to sink z110 instead of z111 nothing goes to the med so Italy would be in decent shape too. I know it sounds crazy but it might be possible to have your cake and eat it too.
@Vance:
If you build the airbase and a destroyer and save $7 you will have an even $70 in hand. It would be interesting to see a game where UK doesn’t see the threat and leaves London naked so you go ahead and pull off a sea lion after your g1 barbarossa LOL. If that is at least POSSIBLE, then UK has to build infantry round 1, and if you were to sink z110 instead of z111 nothing goes to the med so Italy would be in decent shape too. I know it sounds crazy but it might be possible to have your cake and eat it too.
Yes, but with the UK left with a transport, a battleship, a cruiser, a destroyer and air units… there is a threat of a landing in west Germany if left bare. That’s less infantry from Germany heading east, but your idea does allow for the quick assembly of sealion, and I like that alot.
That’s true, although you could move the AA guns from Germany and the infantry from Denmark to West Germany temporarily, and the scramble from Norway would stop the shore bombardment. But yeah maybe instead of saving the $7 it would be wise to build an infantry and artillery in West Germany. You could still throw up 9 transports in z113 next turn (10 total) and bring units back from the Eastern front to Germany if the opportunity for a sea lion arises. With 6 planes to scramble and the destroyer and cruiser in z112 they would be hard pressed to get a blocker in z112 that Italy couldn’t clear by air. Also, Germany having $63 in hand is not the same thing as having $70 in hand, so maybe UK doesn’t see the possibility and they maybe leave it open?
An attack on Russia at the start is simply creating a two sided war at the beginning and normally ends up with germany having to have Italy come help them instead of gaining icp in africa. Germany should go all out for Uk on the first turn. You actually have a decent chance of taking london. Once thats done the game is almost over for the allies
about the norway AB…
slapping an AB there only helps the allies. when america shows up and takes it from you, the UK flies over scramble cover for the fleet and you just lost all chance of disrupting a europe shuck (and a particularly nasty one at that IMO)
i think norway is too hard to defend long term to be the answer to an immediate issue (russian incursion in scandinavia)
Maybe, although the earliest America can show up in Norway is turn 6 without an axis DOW. By then the Soviet Union will have been exterminated and Norway shold have been reinforced with 2 AAs or infantry each turn plus the 3 fighters.
If you hit Russia on one look at how weak they are, they have very little to counter with, why give them 3 or 4 rounds to build.
Then again I supported Young Grasshopper’s Idea.
Dont knock it untill you"ve tried it (not true of all things)
YG and Vance,
I’d be more than happy to try this online with either one of you or both. PM if you want to start. At this point I am undecided as there is a lot to consider as far as Allied counters. I don’t think G1 Barby is fool proof just yet. I’m suspicious of holes in it, but I really gotta see it on the board first.
I’m curious if this is a “one and done” strategy. In other words, it works as a first time sucker punch and then once you’ve seen it, you have a solid counter for it.
Interesting idea though. I’m also in the middle of a game where someone is pulling a G2 attack on Russia- haven’t seen that yet either- vexing to say the least.
If the main objective of a G1 Barbarossa is to destroy russian infantry, then instead of doing SBR in Leningrad, take 1 inf, 1 art from Germany and hit Vyborg along with the 2 bombers from Germany. Attack russian fleet with BB, CR and fighter from Norway (incase Russia scrambles fighter). This way Russia would lose 3 more inf bringing the total to 10. 9 IPC from the three inf is more than the 6 IPC max with SBR.
If the main objective of a G1 Barbarossa is to destroy russian infantry, then instead of doing SBR in Leningrad, take 1 inf, 1 art from Germany and hit Vyborg along with the 2 bombers from Germany. Attack russian fleet with BB, CR and fighter from Norway (incase Russia scrambles fighter). This way Russia would lose 3 more inf bringing the total to 10. 9 IPC from the three inf is more than the 6 IPC max with SBR.
I thought about this too. Problem is, what if all 3 infantry hit? Also, if you are sending all those planes to Vyborg and z115, and you are sending 6 to Baltic states, east Poland, and bessarabia, what do you have left for z111 or z110? I can see your poiint though.
Not a good plan 20 (41.7%)
Sum’s up this entire thread.
@Vance:
I thought about this too. Problem is, what if all 3 infantry hit?
Well the chance of that happening is 1/27.
But the chance of losing a 12 IPC bomber to your IC bombing is 1/3.
More worth it to kill the infantry.
Though I’d still agree with Garg that a G1 attack is not a very good plan.
Yeah i don’t like the SBR either; there are other places to deploy the bombers. The problem with the G1 attack is you probably stall for a couple of turns getting organized anyway so it doesnt really speed things up very much. But you do kill off the 7 Russians along the border and that’s not a bad haul.
I’d agree with that analysis.
But I think that the amount you have to give up to do a G1 attack along with whatever Russia can kill on R1 makes you just about break even, as far as infantry you kill in the initial attack.
I’d argue that the opportunity cost of not getting to threaten UK very well - and the subsequent crushing on Italy - would make a G1 Barbarossa prohibitive, even if there is a net gain in killing those 7 infantry.
the problem I have: limits options. pretty much says no sea lion threat whatsoever. uk should send out his 2 fighters and bomber down to 97 or wherever that bship transport of italy’s is.
I would still as uk purchase all inf, just in case. maybe 6 inf 1 fighter if you bought ground forces already.
russia goes to north persia and then can pick up iraq persia or whatever. so the nice income boost for russia a little bit sooner. the nice 7 inf kills you get is negated by the ruskie pick up of the middle east a few rounds sooner and those 7 inf you kill require you to send stuff over so he might pick up some defense rolls and counter your attack relatively easily.
I’d argue that the opportunity cost of not getting to threaten UK very well - and the subsequent crushing on Italy - would make a G1 Barbarossa prohibitive, even if there is a net gain in killing those 7 infantry.
You kill 7 infantry but don’t sink a battleship and 2 cruisers. A few turns later you might be stalled in Russia not much further ahead than if you waited til G2, and UK can be harassing you with crappy little landings in in Denmark or Holland. If they take Norway you’re in trouble. Still it is an idea.
