12L, AA50-41, Ol' Blood&Guts (Axis) vs. Boldfresh (Allies+7), no tech, + NOs

[Guest]

@Boldfresh:

if we wait for a moderator answer and the answer is in my favor, OBG can later complain about it and feel badly about me as an opponent. � thus, i am willing to continue with euk open and give up the russian NO, the very thing i wanted to avoid and that OBG is hoping to exploit.

obg, i choose to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not deliberately trying to screw me by acting like you think this it is a double standard for me to ask to noncom an infantry to euk, which to me it is clearly not. �

i will go ahead with the UK with the map you posted OBG. �

FOR CLARIFICATION, i mean that only combat moves as typed cannot be changed AFTER DICE ARE THROWN. � noncombat moves CAN be changed if they are not in agreement with the map. � if a player notices that there is a disagreement between noncombat typing and the map, they should ask for clarification. � had i stated this more clearly from the beginning, this issue never would have come up as well.

so, i guess i will eat dirt on this one - not because i think i am wrong, but because i do not want to give OBG and excuse if i beat him.

Forget it. I knew I should have never played again after last year, but I thought after our tournament game, it would work. It is not the first time you have tried to change the way you deal with the game, asking for things differently than what you say goes. Shall we review the PMs you sent me during the tournament once you knew you had lost?

@Boldfresh:

hey OBG, i hope you’ll agree with me that it is not ok that DM just edited the rules for the tourney to be 14 VC’s.  i have given up some victory cities in this game in order to try to draw it out and give the dice a chance to help me out (seems to be working right?)  :lol:

anyway, i think that is fine for the new games in the tourney going forward but not for the games that were already in progress.

if you are cool with just playing this one to 15 VC’s, i would appreciate it.  i’m sure i’m going to get killed in the end anyway but, at least it will be more fun - after all this effort, to hear that it takes one less VC to win is not cool.

since we are well ahead of the pace of most games anyway, it should not be an issue.

thanks

And to review my response with yours again…

@Boldfresh:

@Ol’:

Hey Bold,

I have always believe the tournaments were just like the 2012 league with 14 VC’s as the goal, and have been working that way since the US fleet went around Africa and the Russians left Moscow. When looking at the map, it appears to me your chances are slim in taking a VC by the end of the US turn, which would mean victory for the Axis. The Japanese are on the cusp of taking the US out of Europe. Even if you land troops back in Bst or Pol, then Germans immediately take them out. If you would have asked 4 or 5 turns ago when we were going back and forth, I might could see continuing. However, I am pretty sure I will be able to hold France and protect Italy in sz14. If that is the case, then it has been a good game but it will be an Axis victory.

OBG

I didn’t know it was 14 vc that’s all.  he just stated it in an edit.  the dice have slaughtered me from round one on so its no biggie.  just thought you might be willing to go to 15 since the edit came after the first round started.

So as you can see, it is not the first time you have wanted things differently when it did not turn out your way.

All that being said, maybe you and your uncle can go post this in his rankings and gloat about it over Thanksgiving dinner this year. Don’t bother sending me messages or challenging me to games. I wish you well, but I will no longer continue with this thread. Oh, and please, please, please…both of you stay away from my games and posting in them and I will return the same respect for yours as well.

As far as me trying to pull something dirty, you can ask anyone I have played about myself allowing moves that were missed or mis-typed to go through…I always have…unless it is in a situation where my opponent does not want to return the same courtesy.

[boldfresh]

are you forfeiting?

[boldfresh]

@Ol’:

@Boldfresh:

if we wait for a moderator answer and the answer is in my favor, OBG can later complain about it and feel badly about me as an opponent. � thus, i am willing to continue with euk open and give up the russian NO, the very thing i wanted to avoid and that OBG is hoping to exploit.

obg, i choose to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not deliberately trying to screw me by acting like you think this it is a double standard for me to ask to noncom an infantry to euk, which to me it is clearly not. �Â

i will go ahead with the UK with the map you posted OBG. �Â

FOR CLARIFICATION, i mean that only combat moves as typed cannot be changed AFTER DICE ARE THROWN. � noncombat moves CAN be changed if they are not in agreement with the map. � if a player notices that there is a disagreement between noncombat typing and the map, they should ask for clarification. � had i stated this more clearly from the beginning, this issue never would have come up as well.

so, i guess i will eat dirt on this one - not because i think i am wrong, but because i do not want to give OBG and excuse if i beat him.

Forget it. I knew I should have never played again after last year, but I thought after our tournament game, it would work. It is not the first time you have tried to change the way you deal with the game, asking for things differently than what you say goes. Shall we review the PMs you sent me during the tournament once you knew you had lost?

@Boldfresh:

hey OBG, i hope you’ll agree with me that it is not ok that DM just edited the rules for the tourney to be 14 VC’s.  i have given up some victory cities in this game in order to try to draw it out and give the dice a chance to help me out (seems to be working right?)  :lol:

anyway, i think that is fine for the new games in the tourney going forward but not for the games that were already in progress.Â

if you are cool with just playing this one to 15 VC’s, i would appreciate it.  i’m sure i’m going to get killed in the end anyway but, at least it will be more fun - after all this effort, to hear that it takes one less VC to win is not cool.

since we are well ahead of the pace of most games anyway, it should not be an issue.

thanks

And to review my response with yours again…

@Boldfresh:

@Ol’:

Hey Bold,

I have always believe the tournaments were just like the 2012 league with 14 VC’s as the goal, and have been working that way since the US fleet went around Africa and the Russians left Moscow. When looking at the map, it appears to me your chances are slim in taking a VC by the end of the US turn, which would mean victory for the Axis. The Japanese are on the cusp of taking the US out of Europe. Even if you land troops back in Bst or Pol, then Germans immediately take them out. If you would have asked 4 or 5 turns ago when we were going back and forth, I might could see continuing. However, I am pretty sure I will be able to hold France and protect Italy in sz14. If that is the case, then it has been a good game but it will be an Axis victory.

OBG

I didn’t know it was 14 vc that’s all.  he just stated it in an edit.  the dice have slaughtered me from round one on so its no biggie.  just thought you might be willing to go to 15 since the edit came after the first round started.Â

So as you can see, it is not the first time you have wanted things differently when it did not turn out your way.

All that being said, maybe you and your uncle can go post this in his rankings and gloat about it over Thanksgiving dinner this year. Don’t bother sending me messages or challenging me to games. I wish you well, but I will no longer continue with this thread. Oh, and please, please, please…both of you stay away from my games and posting in them and I will return the same respect for yours as well.

As far as me trying to pull something dirty, you can ask anyone I have played about myself allowing moves that were missed or mis-typed to go through…I always have…unless it is in a situation where my opponent does not want to return the same courtesy.

no problem with you posting my pm’s.  i simply asked if you’d be willing to play to 15 VC’s since it wasn’t originally posted in the tourney rules.  you declined and i conceded the game.  i fail to see how that is me being a poor sport in any way.

again, i have asked you to reconsider your thoughts on this circumstance and when you refused, i have been willing to give you your way and continue.  i would have been willing to return the same courtesy to you.  as i suspected, you are equating the desire to add more units into combat in bst to the circumstance that just happened.  reasonable minds can disagree and i was willing to step up and allow what you were wanting, even though i am certain they are completely different circumstances.

and now are you forfeiting?

[Gargantua]

are you forfeiting?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JaVCG4jRn0&feature=relmfu

1:40 on, to be played - whilst we wait in deliberation for this epic decision to be made.  May the battle continue!

[gamerman01]

?
Wow

Never even played you or talked to you before OBG.  Just disagreed with your handling of this situation, and you go crazy on me and start making several snide remarks.  Real mature of you.

And what’s with posting people’s PM’s without their permission?  Do you know what PM stands for?

[Gargantua]

Do you know what PM stands for?

PUBLIC MEGA-BROADCAST

[gamerman01]

:-D

and enjoying the epic warcraft2 soundtrack now….

[Gargantua]

You know, I never really appreciated how awesome the whole soundtrack was, until I just recently started playing it in the background whilst planning my moves.  It really is/was epic - especially considering they were done as .Midi files, pre .MP3.

Impressive works of art.

[boldfresh]

i don’t have a problem accepting the win, but i still wish you would continue since i have agreed to giving you what you wanted, willing to forgo a moderator ruling, and thought the issue was settled.

i fail to see how this was not handled in a civil manner and i fail to understand why we are not still playing this game. Â

obviously you were upset that i did not let you add units into combat AFTER dice were in the air.  why did you not state this?  i may have been willing to let you start over from the beginning but i NEVER allow more units to be added into combat after dice are in the air.  instead you laid in wait to pounce on me for some discrepancy in the combat typing, and in my opinion you picked a bad time to do it, since the situation was entirely and completely different.  however, EVEN THEN, i accepted your ruling even though i strongly disagreed with it, in order to continue the game and play you at your best.

and you call me a poor sport?  OBG, i’m sorry, but i just don’t think you are seeing this one too clearly.

regardless, if you do wish to forfeit, i am very disappointed in your sportsmanship and i too would not desire to play any further games with you.  we can all get a little hot under the collar sometimes, but cooler heads should prevail.

best,

Bold

[Gargantua]

For example,  play this from 0:40 on, and close your eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_f8UFv_Ytc&feature=relmfu

The music tells you a story, like no “four thousand” word epic ever could.

[boldfresh]

actually i shouldn’t say i’ve never allowed something.  if i’m so far ahead in a game that nothing could possibly matter, i may have allowed certain things.  i just think of all the things that can be asked for, asking to add units into a battle after dice are already in the air on G1 is at the extreme end of the list.  you asked politely, i declined politely.  i don’t see why it got you so upset, especially since it didn’t even affect the battle.

[boldfresh]

i guess you were just looking to “get me back” and when i didn’t immediately accept your “polite decline” you chose to dig in your heels rather than dicuss it reasonably.  i know you didn’t ask for a ruling on the adding of 2 arm into the bst battle because there wasn’t a chance in the world you would get anyone to agree it should be allowed.  but in this case, clearly reasonable minds disagree, and i still think the moderators would likely rule in my favor.  i chose to give you what you were asking in order to avoid you quitting the game or later stating my win wasn’t “really” valid, etc.

anyway, i guess i’ll wait a few days for you to cool down before posting a win.

best.

[Guest]

For the record, dice were not in the air for the Bst battle. Who ever leaves armor behind in an attack on the Russian front?

Gamerman…I apologize to you. We don’t know each other nor are we friends. So I should not have let your comment about conduct and honor get under my skin. I did not change the map how I wanted. I simply made it like he posted.

Bold…continue on with the infantry in Euk. There will be no excuses when it is done. For the record, as you stated earlier, what is posted is official. No excuses and no disagreements that way. If your map does not match what you typed again, I will ask you the fix the map to match what you posted. If a move is missed, then it is something we both have to live with, so please check everything before posting. A map is attached with they way you wanted it.

OBG_vs_Bold_02cJ.AAM

[gamerman01]

@Ol’:

For the record, dice were not in the air for the Bst battle. Who ever leaves armor behind in an attack on the Russian front?

Sometimes I do.  You don’t know what casualties you will take in the 3 battles, so sometimes it’s wise to hold 1 or 2 armor back so you can reinforce the weak points.

Gamerman…I apologize to you. We don’t know each other nor are we friends. So I should not have let your comment about conduct and honor get under my skin. I did not change the map how I wanted. I simply made it like he posted.

Thanks - apology accepted.  Gargantua brought up conduct and honor in the first place, in criticism of Bold.  I was only trying to defend Bold because I thought Garg’s comment was undeserved.

[boldfresh]

Glad to hear OBG.

just to be clear by what i mean about dice being in the air, it means that rolling has begun for any of the combat moves.  it soesn’t mean for the specific battle you are asking about it means for any battle in the round, even if it is just opening aa fire.  So for the record, we are talking about the Combat Moves post being official once any roll has been made (this avoids so many issues of having to look at things on a case by case basis - I don’t like to turn an opponent down on a request, but changing of combat moves after dice have been rolled is about my biggest no-no).  and if anything on the posted map at the end of the turn shows Noncombat moves that do not match what was typed we will ask for clarification.  i am sorry, i will try to be more careful to make sure that my typing matches my map every time.  i do not check nearly as religiously as gamer.  his meticulous nature is part of why he has beaten me in about 90+% of our games.

i am willing to let bygones be bygones and i am sorry for the trouble.

let’s see now i have to see if i want to revise my combat move post, i had the whole move typed up for the map with no inf in euk.   :-)

[Gargantua]

Oh come on now… I’ve never said something about someone that was undeserving.  :-D

Good luck on your game boys!

[gamerman01]

@Ol’:

Bold…continue on with the infantry in Euk. There will be no excuses when it is done. For the record, as you stated earlier, what is posted is official.

By his own admission, Bold just did a poor job of explaining his position when the Baltic States issue came up.

Bold always plays that MAP rules over TYPING whenever there is a discrepancy.  If typing ruled over map, Bold would have ALL KINDS of trouble.

What he meant to communicate (I’m sure) was that all combat moves are final as typed once dice start rolling.  I wouldn’t answer for you Bold, but I’m trying to help resolve the misunderstanding, is all.

I wouldn’t have ever even typed in the thread but I saw Garg was the last poster on a game between OBG and Bold, so I looked to see what he was saying.  Then I saw all the talking back and forth so looked over the situation out of curiosity.  Then I thought I would just say what I thought since Garg and cts17 did.  Didn’t mean to get any more involved than that.  I hope I did more good than harm.

I’ll just blame it all on Gargantua  :-).  If he hadn’t nosed in with his 2 cents, you guys would have got a moderator ruling and went on with your game with less misunderstandings.  I wouldn’t have even dropped in.

[boldfresh]

one other thing while we are on the topic of the noncombat move.  i am NOT saying that the noncombat move post is final and i have never heard of anyone even playing this way.  i think the noncombat move is often revised slightly after the inital post, often several times.  i am fine with this, and in fact, i do not mind if it’s even done a day or two later, as long as I have not posted a dice roll on my next turn.  i am NOT ok with it being revised AFTER i have started rolling on my turn.

there are not hard and fast rules on this topic, and it sometimes leads to disagreements where a person posts like 15 min after a noncombat move was posted and the player says hold up, i still was looking at this and i wanted to revise that, etc…

to me, that is a judgement call to be handled on a case by case basis but i also think if there’s trouble with that, as can sometimes happen if a game is moving as fast as ours, a rule can be agreed to if need be.  but troubles like that are very few and far between and can be handled with common sense - ie if you know a game is moving quickly, don’t post a move until you are sure you are done, etc.

[boldfresh]

what i do is if i post a noncombat move that i am not completely sure about, i will usually make another post right after asking for more time to look at it.

but combat moves, yes, i think they should be cut in stone once the first dice roll is made.

now let’s see, back to the game!!!

[boldfresh]

UK2 - with 43 buys 3 inf, arm, trn, ftr, bom

CM

z13 (trn) - des (z12)
alg (inf, arm) - 2 inf, art, arm (gbr) via z13, ftr (z7)
egy (2 inf) - 2 inf (trj), bom (gbr)
z34 (trn) - ftr (per)
ind (inf) - inf, art (per)

combat:

alg - 2 inf, art, arm, ftr vs. inf, arm
Rolls: 1@1 2@2 2@3; Total Hits: 01@1: (6)2@2: (6, 5)2@3: (5, 6)
Rolls: 1@2 1@3; Total Hits: 01@2: (5)1@3: (5)