How to crack Germany

[jiman79]

I an currently in a nice game I play allies - classic KGF, with Germany performing a very succesfull “Fortress of Europe” strategy.

US has been shuttling across Africa, UK through Norway. USSR is doing great with a strong stack in Ukraine. Japan controls everything in the pacific

I took a shot at western Europe with the US (6inf 4 arm 7 figs vs. aa gun 10 inf 2 fig) I got diced badly and lost 5 figs (4 to AA gun).
Germany recaptured and heavily reinforced western Europe in order to be able to take out my transports with Japanese figs in Eastern Europe.
Now it is UKs turn: Balkans could be cleared giving US+USSR a 1-2 punch against Germany or the possibility of a stack in Southern Europe.
UK can also attack Western Europe or Germany to soften it up, although this is propably not feasible IPC wise.

Any suggestion to how to proceed in this game?

[jiman79]

Another Image including India:

BTW sz6 has 3 US carriers 1 US fig 4 dstr 1 UK fig 1 UK carrier 4 UK transports.

[Hobbes]

Yup, you got diced badly there but the Allies in general look good although there is 1 problem with your strategy regarding the US - going through Africa is slow and risky because the Japanese eventually can block Persia and cause delays. The US units are also not available to crack holes in Europe and that’s one big reason why you’re having difficulties.

Clearing Balkans to stack S. Eur. may be too risky - the Jap airforce looks like it can sink an US fleet moving to SZ14 - I’d be surprised if they don’t sink the US fleet on SZ13 on their next turn before it can land units.

The best way would probably be to keep the pressure on E. Europe - If the Japs attack SZ13 then Russia can crush E. Europe and the UK/US can hit again E. Europe after the German counter - your goal here is to reduce Germany as quickly as possible before hitting Berlin - you should have about 3 rounds to do so before Moscow falls.

[newpaintbrush]

You walked into the Jap-air-in-Europe trap, which allowed the Axis to lock down your fleet.  Think about how you will do things differently next time.

There is no point in “softening up” Western Europe.  UK screws with Western Europe, Japan wipes out the US fleet south of Western Europe, and there is zero followthrough with either UK or US as far as I can tell from the screenshots.  I don’t know what you mean by “feasibility IPC wise”.

Capturing Balkans is probably correct, not because it threatens either Berlin or Southern Europe by way of US/Russian forces, but because it may pressure the Axis into possibly not using their Jap air to full nasty effect.  If the Axis screw up, then good for you.

Hitting Berlin with UK right now should be no good.  Say you take Balkans and hit Berlin.  Now Jap has a choice.  They can either sink both the UK and US transport fleets.  Or they can blow up the UK fleet only and land fighters in Berlin to reinforce.

–

If you wanted to try to break Berlin -

I’d build ground offensive, even if it meant shorting on infantry, stack Karelia, hit Balkans and lose air if necessary to take it, and offload to Norway.  Now suppose Jap tries to blow up fleet south of Western Europe then land at W Europe.  Hopefully also, Japan does not commit at Persia, but it will move its fat stack at China.  Followup is US moves fleet into Baltic, and moves fleet west of Algeria to join UK fleet, to defend it against Germany’s 2 fighter 1 bomber attack, moves all Caucasus units towards Berlin, plus US builds a bunch of transports and/or ground.  (The objective will be to get loaded transports to Western Europe in two turns).

Next turn, Russia takes Southern Europe with tank, and takes Eastern Europe in force or preferably strafes it.  If Japan isn’t pressuring at Persia, Russia puts four tanks at Caucasus.  Germany can counter or strafe; regardless, UK takes Eastern Europe for keeps next turn.  Japan can move a fat stack up into Novosibirsk or Kazakh.  US reinforces Eastern Europe.  US moves fleet bought last turn to East Canada.  Hopefully the Axis will have been pressured enough in the east to not have been able to put a bomber on Western Europe.

Now at this point Japan will have a huge chunk of fighters on Berlin, and you will have a bunch of Japs screwing around in Caucasus and near Moscow.  You won’t have lost Moscow just yet, but it’s going to be a really nasty thing.  If you strafed Eastern Europe successfully with Russia, and/or got lucky, you may have the resources to set up for a successful triple attack.

–

If you wanted to try to defend Moscow -

Watch your Allied fleets.  If you lose another chunk of transports, you will 100% be toast.  Also you will have to watch out for the Axis sending more and more air, because it looks like that’s the sort of game it’s playing.  Balance it out with carrier/fighters.  You will lose control of Africa to Japan. and the game should become an awful grind.  If neither side messes up badly, the game should last another 7-8 turns easily, but I would guess Axis victory in the end, due to economics and the players involved.

[jiman79]

Thanks for the advice Hobbes and Bunnies.
@Hobbes:

Yup, you got diced badly there but the Allies in general look good although there is 1 problem with your strategy regarding the US - going through Africa is slow and risky because the Japanese eventually can block Persia and cause delays. The US units are also not available to crack holes in Europe and that’s one big reason why you’re having difficulties.

I agree that it is a slow strategy, but if USSR is doing well, the Africa route secures UKs income. If US goes to Norway as well, Japan will own Africa and this swings the IPC balance.
Another drawback is that the fleets (if they consist of joined forces) gets pinned down by the combination of German and Japan air.

Which Allied strategy regarding Atlantic troop transfer do you recommend?

@Hobbes:

Clearing Balkans to stack S. Eur. may be too risky - the Jap airforce looks like it can sink an US fleet moving to SZ14 - I’d be surprised if they don’t sink the US fleet on SZ13 on their next turn before it can land units.

The best way would probably be to keep the pressure on E. Europe - If the Japs attack SZ13 then Russia can crush E. Europe and the UK/US can hit again E. Europe after the German counter - your goal here is to reduce Germany as quickly as possible before hitting Berlin - you should have about 3 rounds to do so before Moscow falls.

I will clear Balkan, don’t know if I will sacrifice a bomber there though if the lone inf gets lucky, (maybe I should since this also gives the possibility to blitz Southern Europe).

I will not split my sz6 navy or attack Western Europe, but keep marching UK troops through Norway. Hopefully next UK turn they can take Eastern Europe as you state.

Moscow will not fall in 3 rounds (it is a 3 round walk from India), but if Japan advance now, I might consider hitting Persia with US to clear them out (that should be a close battle).

But what should I buy with the US - should I rebuild the transports and get another shuck going, switch to Strategic bombing of Germany or???

@Bunnies:

There is no point in “softening up” Western Europe.  UK screws with Western Europe, Japan wipes out the US fleet south of Western Europe, and there is zero followthrough with either UK or US as far as I can tell from the screenshots.  I don’t know what you mean by “feasibility IPC wise”.

The point of softening up western Europe should be to be able to keep southern Europe by moving both tank stacks, but I agree it is too risky. By unfeasible IPC wise I mean that UK will lose more IPCs on that battle than Germany.

@Bunnies:

Next turn, Russia takes Southern Europe with tank, and takes Eastern Europe in force or preferably strafes it.  If Japan isn’t pressuring at Persia, Russia puts four tanks at Caucasus.  Germany can counter or strafe; regardless, UK takes Eastern Europe for keeps next turn.  Japan can move a fat stack up into Novosibirsk or Kazakh.  US reinforces Eastern Europe.  US moves fleet bought last turn to East Canada.  Hopefully the Axis will have been pressured enough in the east to not have been able to put a bomber on Western Europe.

Now at this point Japan will have a huge chunk of fighters on Berlin, and you will have a bunch of Japs screwing around in Caucasus and near Moscow.  You won’t have lost Moscow just yet, but it’s going to be a really nasty thing.  If you strafed Eastern Europe successfully with Russia, and/or got lucky, you may have the resources to set up for a successful triple attack.

–

If neither side messes up badly, the game should last another 7-8 turns easily, but I would guess Axis victory in the end, due to economics and the players involved.

This is probably what I will do
Regarding the players involved I have won 18 of 23 games against this guy, but he is really improving (especially as axis).

[Hobbes]

@jiman79:

Thanks for the advice Hobbes and Bunnies.
@Hobbes:

Yup, you got diced badly there but the Allies in general look good although there is 1 problem with your strategy regarding the US - going through Africa is slow and risky because the Japanese eventually can block Persia and cause delays. The US units are also not available to crack holes in Europe and that’s one big reason why you’re having difficulties.

I agree that it is a slow strategy, but if USSR is doing well, the Africa route secures UKs income. If US goes to Norway as well, Japan will own Africa and this swings the IPC balance.

To put it another way - if I’m Axis and the US goes through Africa I’m usually smiling at the screen :) After US2 Japan simply focus on getting the Indian IC running and pumping as many units as possible to block any US forces from ever reaching Caucasus. Most likely the reason why you got that stack up there was because he spent too much money on fighters and didn’t went for the Indian IC right away.

Another drawback is that the fleets (if they consist of joined forces) gets pinned down by the combination of German and Japan air.

Which Allied strategy regarding Atlantic troop transfer do you recommend?

It is a drawback but it can also be turned into an advantage. The key move is really to get 4 US transports to join the UK fleet along with additional US carrier/destroyer and with enough defensive power to withstand a combined Axis airstrike on SZ5 - but it can get tricky because of Japanese air reinforcements to Europe.
Since the full Japanese AF take a few turns to reach Europe you need to use those turns to get the US ships and transports in position and playing it safe to avoid unnecessary losses. Meanwhile you also start setting the W. Can-UK shuck in SZs1/2 (only bombers can reach them so it’s easier to defend).
The advantage is that if done quickly it can prevent overspending on ships and getting more boots on the ground earlier in Europe, along with the possibility of a combined UK/US attack on Germany. And if you’re forced to do it, why not try to play it to your maximum advantage?

@Hobbes:

Clearing Balkans to stack S. Eur. may be too risky - the Jap airforce looks like it can sink an US fleet moving to SZ14 - I’d be surprised if they don’t sink the US fleet on SZ13 on their next turn before it can land units.

The best way would probably be to keep the pressure on E. Europe - If the Japs attack SZ13 then Russia can crush E. Europe and the UK/US can hit again E. Europe after the German counter - your goal here is to reduce Germany as quickly as possible before hitting Berlin - you should have about 3 rounds to do so before Moscow falls.

I will clear Balkan, don’t know if I will sacrifice a bomber there though if the lone inf gets lucky, (maybe I should since this also gives the possibility to blitz Southern Europe).

I will not split my sz6 navy or attack Western Europe, but keep marching UK troops through Norway. Hopefully next UK turn they can take Eastern Europe as you state.

Moscow will not fall in 3 rounds (it is a 3 round walk from India), but if Japan advance now, I might consider hitting Persia with US to clear them out (that should be a close battle).

But what should I buy with the US - should I rebuild the transports and get another shuck going, switch to Strategic bombing of Germany or???

At this point of the game the most important Allied force is the Soviet/US stack on Ukraine. If Japan attacks SZ13 with its airforce then those 13 German units are left completely in the open against that stack. Worse, if J does attack SZ13 then G will  have either to commit units to defend J’s planes in W.Eur, otherwise…

But if Japan doesn’t attack and tries to defend E. Eur, then the US/Soviet needs to attack and destroy that stack with everything possible. But you will need to  sacrifice all the US armor and planes to soften it for the Soviets. Then the Germans either try to destroy the Soviet survivors or turtle in Germany. Either way the Japanese air threat is gone and Germany won’t last much longer.
On Asia, stack instead everything on Novosibirsk to block the advance of the Japanese stack on China and if Japan advanced its stack to Persia let him have Caucasus - then you can retake Caucasus and defend it again. 
Transports. Even if Russia falls before Germany you may still have a shot at Germany. And you’ll need more US ground forces for it.

[Gargantua]

What are the economics?

How much money did each country HAVE ON HAND at the end of the last American turn?

[jiman79]

Approximate income for each power:

USSR: 32 (down 3 1 IPC countries in Sibiria, up WR, UKR, Belo and Balkans)
GER: 30 (What you see + Belo)
UK: 26 (down aus+nz+india+madagascar up Norway)
JAP: 46 (up aus, nz, madagasker, India, China, Sink, Hawaii, 3 IPC in Siberia, Persia)
US: 39 (up north Africa, down China, Sink, Hawaii) +6 for WE last round.

[newpaintbrush]

It will get interesting if Japan hits the sea zone south of Western Europe, and puts fighters on Eastern Europe.

Regardless, UK’s move is pretty clear.

[jiman79]

UK kept marching towards Germany and also tried to take Balkan, but the lone inf made a hit and I decided to keep the bomber.
Japan took out the US ships in sz13 as anticipated, but without loosing a single fighter  :x he also sacrificed a fig in balkan to keep Russia from blitzing Southern Europe. Japan marched into Persia, but also put 4 inf in Rodhesia to sweep Africa.
Japan also kept 2 additional bombers, which puts severe pressure on the atlantic fleet, but also leaves Japan quite weak in Asia regarding ground troops.

Now US and USSR has their turns with the board looking like this.

Europe:

MiddleEast:

Far East:

My plans:

Asia:
The stack in Asia is not strong enough - US can hit it with 13 inf, 4 art, 13 arm and 2 figs and probably only lose the ~13 inf. Japan does probably not have the power to retake Persia after that.
So I definately plan to take that out and advance with the Egypt stack to Jordant to pressure India.
USSR will also hit Yakut with 3 inf + arm.

Europe:
USSR will hit Balkan with 2 inf 2 fig, and use the remaining troops in Ukraine+Belo to strafe Eastern Europe.
USSR will move away west, so that Novo and Kazakh are near empty, reinforcing Ukraine and maybe also Persia.

Buys

US (45 IPC): Since Japan keeps buying air - the sz6 needs more defense, so something like 2 figs, 3 trns.
USSR (32 IPC): 9 inf, arm

Any comments/advice is highly appreciated  :-)

[newpaintbrush]

Look again; Japan has a load of units to counter Persia with.  If you don’t reinforce Persia with Russian units, you’re going to lose a chunk of US tanks on the cheap.

(edit) or at least, they will be at severe risk.  Anyways, Russian reinforcement will probably be more of a “must” than a “maybe”. (/edit)

Another threat to keep in mind is the upcoming Japan stack next to Moscow.  Combined with moving 4 Jap fighters from W Eur to the Persian sea zone, and bomber build, you’re looking at a serious capital threat.  If you keep the threat in mind when you do your moves, though, it’s easily neutralized.

The major Axis threat at this time will be a defense of Eastern Europe.  More on this in a bit.

Think about keeping a US carrier at the east US sea zone.  That allows fighters to start on the eastern US sea zone, which gives them some useful range.

The Allies probably cannot afford the time to build another major Allied defensive fleet, which means the Allies won’t be able to maintain two heavily guarded drop zones.  I would guess your best short term bet in terms of UK/US reinforcement would be to take one minor fleet to the Karelia/Archangel sea zone, and a major fleet to maintain a flow through Algeria.  Japan’s multiple bombers could make that difficult in a turn or two, but the key thing to watch out for is to make sure the Axis fighters can’t hit the Kar/Arch fleet, which should not be too difficult as long as you don’t let the Axis get set up with a Eastern Europe defense.

More on Axis setup at Eastern Europe - if you get Jap fighters on E Europe instead of W Europe, the Jap threat to Moscow gets a lot nastier, as well as threatening the Kar/Arch fleet that maintains a flow of units to Europe.  (If you have a major fleet at Algeria, you will need two turns to reposition it at Kar/Arch, so keep that in mind).

Although you have not explicitly stated it, your plan is no longer one to crack Germany any time soon.  (Given Japan’s turn, I think that’s right.)  It is now a grindish game, with the Allies maintaining superior position and economy, but with the Axis probably making major moves economy-wise esp. at Africa.  Be careful of Axis development at Africa, and if you think it appropriate, you may consider a light US Pacific fleet in time.  (Probably not, but it’s something to keep in mind.)

(“Be careful” doesn’t mean you can’t let Japan expand in Africa.  Just don’t let Japan expand in Africa while simultaneously letting the Axis shift into a long game situation.)

If you ARE planning on trying to build two major Allied defensive fleets, you will need more US fleet instead of transports.

I would guess Russia should use more tanks on Caucasus for its build, instead of getting so many infantry.   I recommend against attempting to fortify either Kazakh or Novosibirsk.

Cauc tanks - threaten India, Eastern Europe/Ukraine, Novosibirsk, and Kazakh.  Russian tanks are very sexy right now, very in.  4 out of 5 dentists recommend them.

[jiman79]

Thanks for the response Bunnies, that was very usefull.

Its almost always about cracking Germany  :-D , but your right in this game that won’t come anytime soon - the game seems to have found an equilibrium, luckily this is not a IRL game, then we would probably have to call it off due to lack of time.

I am very much in doubt on how to setup the US transport chain. Your suggesting with US going back to offloading in sz12 (Algeria) while moving the UK fleet to sz4 (Karelia/Arcangel).
I was also considering having US troops offloading in England (fleets in SZ2+SZ6) this would however mean abandoning Africa.
Your suggestion lets me get UK troops faster to the front while contesting Japan in Africa, the only drawback is that G does not have to worry about defending Germany. I think I will go with that.

With Japan (soon) having 5 bom+7figs the UK naval part (3dstr+car+fig) needs reinforcement (at least 1 fig but preferably also a US carrier so that additional figs can be added if Japan gets more units within range.
US needs to be able to handle the entire wrath of the Japanese airforce, which means I need 3 dstr, 4 car and 7/8 figs.

So the US buy should maybe be 3 figs+car this round and transports and a destroyer next round.
You are right about USSR arm in cauc (that is always sexy :) ) maybe a 2 arm, 6 inf, 1 art buy instead (one additional arm may come to cauc from Jordan).

Regarding Persia, Japan can counter with 11 inf 1 arm 2 fig 5 bomb.
US will probably have 4 art 13 arm and that is a very even battle - Japan should come out with 3 bombers or so.
But with very little reinforcement (an AA gun the UK inf in Jordan and maybe 2-3 USSR inf/lucky US inf survivors) this battle hugely favors Allies.

What is worse is the Egypt stack of 9 inf 2 art. Where to put and how to reinforce this stack?

[newpaintbrush]

I say 4 tanks at Caucasus.  The Axis are weak right now, there are short term opportunities that can be exploited.  Why build infantry to wait for the Axis to punch you in the face?  Build tanks, punch them in the face, take their land, then when they push back, then mass infantry.

Of course, if you are already punching the Axis in the face very hard, then you don’t need to mass tanks, because you don’t need them.  In such a case, you can build infantry to maintain a flow of units so you can keep punching them.  But IMO the game is not quite at that stage yet.  IMO you don’t quite have the Axis face down on the floor yet.

Regarding Persia, the Japs also have two battleship support shots.  A Japanese 21 dice counter against a US 17 dice defense, plus the Japs are mostly losing low cost infantry, plus the Japs attack power is mostly fueled by high dice, allowing them to continue the attack without blunting the effectiveness.  Also, you don’t know what the exact result will be in Persia; US could well come out with less than 17 defenders.  Upshot is Axis threaten to rip the heart out of US’s attack power at low cost.

Who says Japan will end the battle with 3 bombers?  If they begin to lose a little, they can retreat, and they just killed a load of expensive US tanks in return for some crappy Japanese infantry.  If the Japs get a little dice skew and get lucky, they will just kick US back to the stone age and keep loads of air.  Either way, the Japs can’t lose and the US can’t win.

Simple solution, pop a few Russians in to reinforce.  What the heck else are the Russians doing?  Especially those bums on Kazakh.  Why stop at 2-3?  I count four on Kazakh.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/kazakhstan/9165841/Kuwaitis-mistakenly-play-Borats-Kazakh-national-anthem-at-medals-ceremony.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfPrQqbikb4

–

Re: Egypt 9 inf 2 art - think about Japan’s counter if Allies move that stack to TransJordan.  Then think about YOUR counter.  Yeah very interesting, especially if you had Caucasus tanks and a Russian stack on Persia.

The alternative is to retreat the stack to the interior of Africa.  That will make Japanese progress to most parts of Africa far more difficult, but then again the Japs could just pressure Persia/Asia instead.

Your call.

[Gargantua]

You could “strafe” the japanese stack…

Attack for a round OR two, and retreat to Caucusus without actually taking it.  You are then also in position to liberate Kazakstan if he tanks that, thus eliminating his “other” stack.

Africa is a sideshow at this point.

[jiman79]

Yeah I have thought about strafing it, this move may bring troops quickly from Jordan to Caucasus and the armor could reinforce a british stack in Eastern Europe next round.

But this definately exposes the Egypt stack (which then should move to Congo)
Bunnies is right (I think this is what he implies) advancing the Egypt stack to Jordan while having a stack in Persia, that Japan can not take out, gives Japan something to think about.
He can probably not take out the Jordan stack and still keep control of India, and after India falls he has to worry about FIC, meaning he has to get that big fleet back to Japan for reinforcements.

If he stacks up in India then the (currently Egypt) US inf stack merges wth the armor stack in Persia, and this buys me another round or two before Japan can advance.

But I actually do not have to take this decision before I have seen the first round of combat.