@Curtmungus your honor of being more famous than me is quite deserved. I salute you.
Racial Profiling in airports
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“And yes, the argument that racial profiling insults people is kind of true, but it kills people not to profile.”
In Cincinnati on April 7, 2001, a police officer chased and shot Timothy Thomas, a black teenager (unarmed) wanted for 14 misdemeanor and traffic charges. The shooting sparked four days of “unrest,” with video images of blacks pulling white motorists from their cars and beating them. Ken Lawson, a Cincinnati defense attorney who specializes in police brutality cases, said the rioting “gave whites a better understanding of what it feels like to be a target of violence just because of the color of your skin.”
This is the problem. How many times can you target someone soley due to the color of the skin (though many police offices attach accounts of minor “traffic violations” like weaving or minor speeding). One of the core principles of the Fourth Amendment is that the police cannot stop and detain an individual without some reason – probable cause, or at least reasonable suspicion – to believe that he or she is involved in criminal activity.
“I feel like I’m a guy who’s pretty much walked the straight line and that’s respecting people and everything. We just constantly get harassed. So we just feel like we can’t go anywhere without being bothered… I’m not trying to bother anybody. But yet a cop pulls me over and says I’m weaving in the road. And I just came from a friend’s house, no alcohol, nothing. It just makes you wonder – was it just because I’m black?”
– James, 28, advertising account executive
Right on, brother. :(
How many times can you pull someone over simply because of his race, before he is filled with this bitter resentment of the system?
In another another incident a Arab citizen of the US was barred from getting onto a plane, simply because another passenger felt “uncomfortable” of his presence. The Arab was taking in custody, question, had a ID/background, and stripped search before security declared him a non-threat. Was he allowed back on the plane? No, he was still rejected from boarding onto that particular plane. What gives the other passenger a higher president over that Arab citizen? Race?
But to be sure, exactly what type of racial profile are we talking about? I think there is a bit of a side track between racial profile on airports and highways. I do believe in forms of racial profiling. For example, when you arrive in the USA or depart on a flight, and are not a legal US citizen (like the Muslim terrorist), then you are subject to a resonable amount of scrutiny by the officials. However, what about the Arab citizen who is a legal US citizen and who’s family have lived here for generations? What about middle class Arabs that constantly need to travel, frequent business flyers? Should they be force to undergo racial profiling every time they wish to board a plane?
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Horten,
if your neighbor puts up a soundsystem in his garden at a volume that loud that you can’t sleep and he replies "it’s my garden’, how would you react?
I just asked for it, because it is kind of annoying to have half a page filled with that pic.Moses,
that’s what i meant, when i objected the racial in racial profiling -
Do we know what kind of effect RP has right now?
And let’s say that RP has prevented 2 planes from being taken hostage - would the end justify the means?Those, i think, seem to be the big questions here. I am curious. Given my mentality, if i was Arabic would i consider RP to be “wrong”? If a large group of Mennonites were involved in terrorist activities (stiffling a laugh here) would i consider it wrong if i am being checked out myself (having been an active Mennonite - studying Mennonite history, taking part in public Mennonite events - i’m a worthy target)? Right now, i think that reasonably that is something i would have to put up with - at least for a little while - until we were at least found to be non-terrorist, peaceful people with a few wing-nuts at the fringes. Are there any people of Arabic descent who feel this way?
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“In Cincinnati on April 7, 2001, a police officer chased and shot Timothy Thomas, a black teenager (unarmed) wanted for 14 misdemeanor and traffic charges.”
One, did he run from the cop? Two, shooting people ISN’T racial profiling. Its murder…same with violent rioting.
"In another another incident a Arab citizen of the US was barred from getting onto a plane, simply because another passenger felt “uncomfortable” of his presence. The Arab was taking in custody, question, had a ID/background, and stripped search before security declared him a non-threat. Was he allowed back on the plane? No, he was still rejected from boarding onto that particular plane. What gives the other passenger a higher president over that Arab citizen? Race? "
This almost happened to my dad! They put him on the plane first so people wouldn’t “vote him off.”!!! If someone is checked out by security, then noone should be “voted off.” That isn’t racial profiling.
“I do believe in forms of racial profiling. For example, when you arrive in the USA or depart on a flight, and are not a legal US citizen (like the Muslim terrorist), then you are subject to a resonable amount of scrutiny by the officials. However, what about the Arab citizen who is a legal US citizen and who’s family have lived here for generations? What about middle class Arabs that constantly need to travel, frequent business flyers? Should they be force to undergo racial profiling every time they wish to board a plane?”"
You agree with me so why are we debating? What we need is the Israeli like system. If someone was here for generations, or comes here all the time on business, should geta backroundcheck (like everyone), and notneed to be heavily scrutinized again! Its a great system.
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“One, did he run from the cop? Two, shooting people ISN’T racial profiling. Its murder…same with violent rioting.”
I think he did run from the cop. However, the cop had no right to fire since his life was not place in unnecessary danger (the teenager was unarmed). This more has to due with police misconduct or maybe even racism, not racial profiling as you said. What I was referring to was the backlash. IE Blacks pulling whites out of cars, beating them, and saying, “Now you know how it feels to be a victim of racial profiling.” This has to stop. How long can you molest a race of people so much that they finally snap, like the incident from above?
“This almost happened to my dad! They put him on the plane first so people wouldn’t “vote him off.”!!! If someone is checked out by security, then noone should be “voted off.” That isn’t racial profiling.”
The Arab wasn’t voted off, it was all due to the actions of one single passenger. This still is “hard” profiling* by that passenger (This event happen fairly recently, I think in early June. The attacks of Sept. 11th came almost 8 months ago!). But still, the he [the Arab] had to be stripped searched and forego questioning (the whole ordeal delayed the flight at least an hour). Don’t you think that this is a little extreme to say the least? If this Arab were a citizen of the United States (and he was), I would think a simple baggage check, background check, and sincere apology would be more than enough. Same with blacks. Should a person pulled over for a minor traffic violation (and we see this all the time) be subject to unwanted scrutiny (ie having his car searched and even taken into custody) simply because of the color of his skin?
“You agree with me so why are we debating? What we need is the Israeli like system. If someone was here for generations, or comes here all the time on business, should geta backroundcheck (like everyone), and notneed to be heavily scrutinized again! Its a great system.”
The problem is that such a system doesn’t exist in America. Now I would support your Israeli system. However, it should not just be applied to blacks (when driving cars) or Arabs (when riding airplanes). This should be similar to the National Instant Check (as a member of the NRA you should know this). Instant Checks require only a few minutes, and they are the most comprehensive checks ever run on firearm purchasers, superior to any conducted under waiting periods.
- = What we may call “hard” profiling uses race as the only factor in assessing criminal suspiciousness: an officer sees a black person and, without more to go on, pulls him over for a pat-down on the chance that he may be carrying drugs or weapons. “Soft” racial profiling is using race as one factor among others in gauging criminal suspiciousness: the highway police, for example, have intelligence that Jamaican drug posses with a fondness for Nissan Pathfinders are transporting marijuana along a section of the northeast corridor. A New Jersey trooper sees a black motorist speeding in a Pathfinder and pulls him over in the hope of finding drugs.
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"The problem is that such a system doesn’t exist in America. Now I would support your Israeli system. However, it should not just be applied to blacks (when driving cars) or Arabs (when riding airplanes). This should be similar to the National Instant Check (as a member of the NRA you should know this). Instant Checks require only a few minutes, and they are the most comprehensive checks ever run on firearm purchasers, superior to any conducted under waiting periods. "
That’s a good idea…i think in Israel if you pass the background check, then you carry a card and you can go through security.
“* = What we may call “hard” profiling uses race as the only factor in assessing criminal suspiciousness: an officer sees a black person and, without more to go on, pulls him over for a pat-down on the chance that he may be carrying drugs or weapons.”
That’s bull crap. I cannot say I am pro that. Now if that man looks like a man they are looking for, than ok…but total random? Hell no…walking in the street isn’t a threat to society.
" “Soft” racial profiling is using race as one factor among others in gauging criminal suspiciousness: the highway police, for example, have intelligence that Jamaican drug posses with a fondness for Nissan Pathfinders are transporting marijuana along a section of the northeast corridor. A New Jersey trooper sees a black motorist speeding in a Pathfinder and pulls him over in the hope of finding drugs.“”
Well I’m for the legalization of drugs, but for the sake of debate i’ll say this…Now if the statistics are overwhelming, as in that overwhelming that it would be worth wasting the time tearing up a car, then do it. I don’t have the numbers so I could not tell you if that act would be justified. If numbers tell you that it is “smart” to check this kind of profile, then I say do it. For instance, if after the Oklahoma city bombing, a bunch of more Ryder trucks full of bombs all white militia dudes, pulling those trucks over are essential. You follow me?
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Yeah, I can agree with you on that about hard and soft profiling. :wink: You can’t be completely color blind in that case of soft profiling where you know when and where the hitch is taking place.
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Yes I agree…
looks like we brought peace to this thread w/;out spilling any blood ;)
unless Falk is coming!
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case closed! 8)
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boooo Horten!!!
I agreed to Moses in his opinion even before he had to coin the terms of hard and soft profiling….
cuts his finger and here is the blood shed :) :)
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yeah whatever! :roll:
You just want to disagree with me, and make me look like a racist! :o
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haha, that’s the funniest darn thing I ever heard :lol:
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That tops all the dumb things i say???
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That and saying Ike was a bad president double ouch :wink:
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tell me how he was so great!
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#1: After the inauguration, it soon became clear that Eisenhower’s policy was not to go on the offensive in the Korean War, but to end it.
#2: Eisenhower was able to secure an armistice with N. Korea and China without the use of nuclear weapons, which might’ve brought about WWIII.
#3: Advised against Vietnam, knowing what consequences it held. But was favorable to the path of Containment to stop flow of “Reds.”
#4: Didn’t send troops to Hungary knowing it might result in WWIII (for an army general he was quite dovish). He believed that Communism was a bad system that would someday collapse on its own. (Even I have to agree with him against those Soviets)
#5: Turned down recommendations by members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff that he launch a first-strike nuclear attack on the Soviets while the United States still had more atomic bombs. (Yeah, I guess preventing nuclear annihilation is a sign of a good president)
#6: First president to involve the United States in Middle Eastern politics. Supported Egypt in subsequent war with embargo on NATO allies (!). Rejected such gunboat diplomacy.
#7: Eisenhower supported other countries in Africa and Asia as they struggled to win their independence. (You like this part Horten, he rejected claims to help the French try to put down Algerian independence)Good sized list. Only covers foreign policy in first term. Like to go into domestic policy?
Eisenhower may not be best president, but it’s wrong putting him on the same level as that damnedYankee Grant. He helped prevent nuclear war on more than one occasion.
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his advisors did most of his thinking…kinda like regan. when the most important ones died in the end of his administration, he stopped really doing anything!
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Eisenhower was a good president. :) An vital part of presidency is choosing the right administrators for the correct cabinet positions. Don’t forget that George Washington had to appoint his own staff because he could not commit to being everywhere at one. None of this was ever written in the United States Constitution; nevertheless Mr. Washington knew the tough challenges governing a entire nation would bring. Imagine how much more presidents have to oversee today.
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Profiling should be done by country of birth.
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Profiling should be done by country of birth.
And Ike should have saved hungary.
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