12L LL v JWW +8, -tech, +NO, Game 2

[LuckyLindy]

SUI taken with 2 infantry, fighter

Noncombat Moves

fighter from HUP to YUN
fighter from SUI to FUK
infantry from FAR to BRY
infantry from STC to BRY
infantry from BRY to MAN
2 infantry from JPN to KIA
5 submarines, 2 destroyers, ac, cruiser, battleship from Z62 to Z50
4 infantry from SUM to IND
3 fighters from PER to BUR
fighter from PER to Z35
ac from Z35 to Z34
fighter from POL to FRA
fighter from POL to Z34
fighter from TRJ to RHO
fighter from TRJ to Z35
fighter from TRJ to Z34
transport from Z30 to Z38

Mobilize

4 infantry in SUM
4 infantry, 2 fighters in JPN
IC in BOR

Income

43 + 15 NO + 1 saved = 59

LL vs. JWW 5cJ.AAM

[666]

UK 5 purchase 6 inf spend 18 (save 6)

combat

#1A sbr GER v bmb (cau)
#1 nwe (inf, art) v 2inf (gbr) BB,& 4 fgt (2gbr 2z5)
#2 bst (inf) v CA, inf (gbr) art (nwy) & 3 fgt ( 2 epl)

[666]

ger IC damageRolling 1:
(4)

#1 NWE attackRolls: 1@4 4@3 2@1; Total Hits: 61@4: (2)4@3: (2, 1, 2, 1)2@1: (2, 1)v inf, artRolls: 2@2; Total Hits: 02@2: (5, 6)

[666]

german IC damage 4+2 = 6

nwe twol

#2 bst attackRolls: 3@3 2@2; Total Hits: 03@3: (4, 4, 6)2@2: (3, 6)v infRolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 11@2: (1)

[666]

2nd wave attackRolls: 3@3 1@2; Total Hits: 03@3: (6, 5, 5)1@2: (6)v infRolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 01@2: (3)

[666]

Rolls: 3@3 1@2; Total Hits: 13@3: (5, 4, 2)1@2: (6)v infRolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 11@2: (2)

[666]

just realised my attack was done wrong. I only had 2 for 3 not 3 for 3. I will reroll

Rolls: 2@3; Total Hits: 22@3: (3, 1)

[666]

ok so I hit but lost 2 units

BS…lose inf & art

ncm:
z27 trn > z 25
bmb > bul
bst 2 fgt > bul
kar arm > mos
nwe fgt’s > z5
eca arm > wca

UK collects saved 6 + 21 = 27

LL vs. JWW 5duk.AAM

[LuckyLindy]

Should you not just remove the last three rolled since you rolled one too many?  I guess that makes the most sense to me, and not just because it might benefit me.

Cheers

[LuckyLindy]

In my opinion the infantry survived unless you wanted to continue the attack with 2 fighters.  Is there a clearly defined rule to cover cases like this?  I would not think that a “reroll” is proper but I could be wrong.

Cheers

[666]

everything missed for me on the second round attack. You also missed on the 2nd round so we moved to round three. If I had hit on the 2nd round and mistakenly added a roll and you had hit in the 2nd roll I would have needed to reroll MY dice and then decide what to lose.

Since you missed on rd 2 we moved to rd three.

If you are arguing that your 2nd rd roll should not be counted for some reason that is not correct.

[LuckyLindy]

My roll should be counted in every round because the correct number of dice was rolled for me each round.  I am saying that if too many dice are rolled for a certain unit type, the roll should not be “rerolled” but instead the extra number of dice should just be removed from the roll, or something similar.  Here, you rolled too many threes in round 2 and round 3.  There should have been 2 for each round but you rolled 3 for each round.  In this case, should the third dice not just be removed since it should not have been rolled?

So, in rounds 2 and 3, the first two threes rolled missed both times.  A similar process would be done if you had rolled one too few of the fighters.  If you had rolled only one when there were supposed to be 2, you would just roll an extra dice for the second fighter, not reroll for both fighters.

I do not like the idea of rerolls. Clearly 2 of your 3 fighters missed in the third round.  If you reroll, then your fighters hit 2/2.  I do not think that is the way to do it.

To show my point I will use an exaggeration that should make it clear.  If I had 30 tanks and I mistakenly rolled 31 dice and I hit you 3 times, would you be ok with me “rerolling” 30 dice?  I would think it is clear that one of the 31 should be removed not all dice rerolled.  If a person were willing to accept a reroll, then they should never be able to be hit more times than 3.  Here you went from hitting once to hitting twice.  Just because there was only one hit needed, it does not matter.  You went from hitting one in three (33%) to hitting 2/2 (100%).

Do you see what I am saying?  Since only one hit could be made anyway, the most I would be willing to accept is to give you a 33% chance of hitting in the third round.  So if you want to roll 1@2 and you hit, I will give you credit for a hit in the third round with a fighter.  I hope you are able to understand my point, I am not trying to be a stickler about this, but I have to say what I think is right.

Cheers

[666]

Yes I understand now. It does make sense. If I had failed to roll a dice I would simply roll +1 extra to catch up and since I rolled 1 extra over 2 rd’s you are arguing that 2 dice should be eliminated & you specify which dice IYO should be discarded. Either the last two, reading left to right, in rd 3 or last dice in rd 2 & 3.

So basically you are saying that if I had hit on the die you consider “1st” in either round 2 or 3 then I should get credit for the “hit”? I am not sure how other players would react to this concept? hmmm….Isn’t the last dice shown on the right, reading left to right, the first dice rolled.  :-D, why not? anyways.

The way I have, and others have, resolved this is to not assume which dice was the good or bad dice but to reroll. You correctly point out where this could be problematic in certain situations but this is how I have been resolving these issues here for the last 5+ years and pretty much without incident. I am sure others have used differing/agreeable methods but to answer an earlier question of yours there isn’t a standard, to my knowledge. Perhaps we should incorporate a standard? Would you be willing to draft a resolution that we/you can present to Darth M and the community?

W/respect to this game I don’t care how you decide to resolve it. I trust your good intentions.  JWW

[LuckyLindy]

Yes, the point I am making is that one of the three dice you rolled for fighters in the third round hit, so in this case, I say we roll a dice where you have a 1/3 chance of hitting.  If you roll 2 or less you get credit for the hit.

I would be happy to put together a proposal so there can be a standard resolution to dice that does not resort to rerolling, but only in the case where too many or too few dice are rolled).  Rerolling, for the reason I said before, does not seem necessary for a simple error of too many or too few dices of a certain unit being rolled.  I think there are probably certain reasons that dice may have to be rerolled, one I can think of now is if an aircraft or several were rolled for, but it was not actually able to fly far enough to be in the battle and land properly.  In this case, If the player rolling gets a lot of hits on attack, they should not be allowed to just remove their illegal aircraft from the roll because who knows if they really would have gone into the battle with less aircraft?  This would very much be true if it was a close battle by the odds before it began.

So, to complete the battle in BST, if you roll a 1 or 2 here the map will stand as you posted it.  If you roll a 3,4,5, or 6, you have the option to continue the battle if you wish.

And the dice gods say…

Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 11@2: (2)

[LuckyLindy]

The battle stands as you said and the map is correct.

I will see if I can get to this game today, but first I have to do a tournament move against DD.

Cheers

[666]

I think the creation of a sound rule proposal for the resolution of dice “issues” is a great idea. I am not a “math” guy so if you are inclined to put this rule proposal together I will co-sponsor it and we can present it to DM and perhaps get it included in the rules/by laws. Anything that makes it easier for the league to run without to many rulings made or oversight of MODs is a plus as far as I am concerned. If you aren’t interested in putting this together no worries, I understand. I think there are plenty of math guys who might run with the concept you proposed. Let me know.

[LuckyLindy]

Italy turn 5

Purchase

12 IPC

4 infantry

Combat Moves

PER (empty) v infantry (EGY)
EPL (infantry) v infantry (POL), tank (GER)
NWE (2 infantry) v infantry (FRA), tank (GER)

dice…

EPL
A - infantry, tank
Rolls: 1@1 1@3; Total Hits: 11@1: (2)1@3: (2)
D - infantry
Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 01@2: (4)

[LuckyLindy]

EPL taken with infantry, tank

NWE
A - infantry, tank
Rolls: 1@1 1@3; Total Hits: 11@1: (2)1@3: (1)
D - 2 infantry
Rolls: 2@2; Total Hits: 12@2: (4, 1)

[LuckyLindy]

retreat tank to GER

Noncombat Moves

3 infantry from ITA to FRA
2 cruisers, battleship from Z30 to Z34
2 tanks from GER to ITA
fighter from CNG to SUD

Mobilize

4 infantry in ITA

Income

13 + 5 NO = 18

LL vs. JWW 5eI.AAM

[666]

USA/China

China gets an INF
USA purchase CV, fgt, ss, trn, 3inf & art spend 50 (save 0)

China combat
#1 HUP (inf) v 4inf (sik & nin)

USA combat
#1 GER SBR v 2 bmb (gbr & cau)
#2 CAR (mt) v inf (MID) cwol
#3 EGY (mt) v inf (lib) cwol