Not sure if this is the best place to keep posting game play questions - if there is a better place in the forum please tell me and I won’t be offended.
When exactly are subs able to submerge? I know they can do it before they attack or anytime they would have the option of firing back (enemy destroyers disable this). Today however I noticed on the Pacific 1940 FAQ (the one off of the Wizards website) I noticed this:
“Q. Can a defending submarine submerge before an attacking sub fires on it?
A. Yes. The decision whether to submerge is made before any dice are rolled, and the submerging subs
are removed from the battle immediately. Of course, if the attacker has a destroyer, the defending
sub may not submerge at all.”
I thought that defending subs had to survive at least one round of fire from an attacker before it could submerge; otherwise, they would be practically indestructible. Does this answer mean that defending subs can submerge before any combat begins only when being attacked by other subs? Or does this apply to all naval combat? Either way, do these rules apply to Europe 1940 and the Global game too? Is there any chance it was a misprint?
Question 2: This one is short and sweet: Can aircraft ever fly over the impassable regions on the map (Sahara, etc.)? I think this is in the Europe rulebook somewhere but mine is currently on loan with a friend.
Thank you in advance for responses!
I’ve always assumed one round had to pass before you could submerge, but I could be wrong.
And no, aircraft cannot fly over impassable regions
“Q. Can a defending submarine submerge before an attacking sub fires on it?
A. Yes. The decision whether to submerge is made before any dice are rolled, and the submerging subs
are removed from the battle immediately. Of course, if the attacker has a destroyer, the defending
sub may not submerge at all.”I thought that defending subs had to survive at least one round of fire from an attacker before it could submerge; otherwise, they would be practically indestructible. Does this answer mean that defending subs can submerge before any combat begins only when being attacked by other subs? Or does this apply to all naval combat? Either way, do these rules apply to Europe 1940 and the Global game too? Is there any chance it was a misprint?
That’s not a misprint. Unless the defender wishes to use the submarines for defense, the ONLY way to guarantee combat with submarines is to bring a destroyer. You could attack a single sub with 40 battleships, and the sub would simply submerge before any shots were fired.
Here are the contradictory statements:
“Q. When attacked, can submarines submerge immediately or do they have to survive one round of fire from attackers?
A.They have to withstand at least one round of fire. Otherwise they would be practically indestructible.”
Source: A&A Europe FAQ at wizards.com
“Q. Can a defending submarine submerge before an attacking sub fires on it?
A. Yes. The decision whether to submerge is made before any dice are rolled, and the submerging subs
are removed from the battle immediately. Of course, if the attacker has a destroyer, the defending
sub may not submerge at all.”
Source: A&A Pacific 1940 FAQ at wizards.com
So the sub rules have changed between the original theater level games and the 1940 versions? Wow, seems like the 1940 subs are a way better unit: even if they defend on a 1 now they cost 2 IPC less and are apparently impossible to attack without a destroyer…
One last rules question I forgot to include here: is it possible to call off an amphibious assault in the 1940 rules? I know that you can retreat from a sea battle, but let’s say the following occurs: I win a naval battle and have a surviving transport and a couple cruisers left in a sea zone adjacent to the land territory I want to attack. I had already declared that I wanted to do an amphib. assault and had moved some land units into the enemy territory from a friendly adjacent one. Now (for whatever reason) I decide that I want to call off the attack. Because I won the naval battle and had already declared an amphib assault, am I now committed to carrying it out? If I must, can the land units that moved in from the adjacent territory retreat before doing any attack rolls?
I appreciate the feedback - I’m a huge rules stickler and this game seems to generate a lot of rules questions among my friends and me.
Another quick one: can fighters that are scrambling (in order to protect a sea zone or to stop an amphibious attack) belong to multiple powers? For instance, if Germany attempts an amphib. assault on the United Kingdom (the territory) would the Allies be allowed to scramble both British and American fighters based there? Or, in the event that Italian ships were being attacked in SZ 97, would Italian fighters be able to scramble from, say, Northern Italy while German fighters scrambled from Greece (assuming that Germany had captured Greece and built an airbase there)? :? I realize these examples would only apply to the Alpha scrambling rules but I figure the principle would be the same in the Europe 1940 OOB rules too.
You’re looking at the wrong Q&A…
**Source: A&A Europe FAQ at wizards.com
Source: A&A Pacific 1940 FAQ at wizards.com**
You need to be looking at Source: A&A Europe 1940 FAQ at wizards.com
That’s where your conflicting answers come in.
even if they defend on a 1 now they cost 2 IPC less and are apparently impossible to attack without a destroyer…
They can also be completely ignored, and bypassed, losing their ability to BLOCK. And they also have a point in being built by Germany now, as opposed to the old games, where they just became free to hit fodder.
I just meant that the original theater game rules and the 1940 rules contradicted each other in the sense that they are different. Bad choice of wording on my part…. Is there a Europe 1940 FAQ at wizards.com? I couldn’t find one.
And I definitely agree with you on one thing: I never really bothered to build more subs as Germany in the original Europe because they were so easy to kill. The updated rules are a welcome improvement.
I just meant that the original theater game rules and the 1940 rules contradicted each other in the sense that they are different. Bad choice of wording on my part…. Is there a Europe 1940 FAQ at wizards.com? I couldn’t find one.
And I definitely agree with you on one thing: I never really bothered to build more subs as Germany in the original Europe because they were so easy to kill. The updated rules are a welcome improvement.
The rules regarding submerging changed with the release of A&A Anniversary Edition, which established a new rule mechanics baseline that each new the version since (1942, EU1940, and Pac1940) are based on.
So, yes, they have changed since the original theatre games. But back then, subs could be hit by aircraft & could block movement, carriers had an attack value (and a higher defense value), could only take one hit, etc etc etc.
There is no Europe 1940 FAQ on wizards yet. They’re waiting for the revisions from Harris I would imagine.
However, there are Official Rules Clarifications for Europe and Global 1940 on Larry Harris’ site.
One last rules question I forgot to include here: is it possible to call off an amphibious assault in the 1940 rules? I know that you can retreat from a sea battle, but let’s say the following occurs: I win a naval battle and have a surviving transport and a couple cruisers left in a sea zone adjacent to the land territory I want to attack. I had already declared that I wanted to do an amphib. assault and had moved some land units into the enemy territory from a friendly adjacent one. Now (for whatever reason) I decide that I want to call off the attack. Because I won the naval battle and had already declared an amphib assault, am I now committed to carrying it out? If I must, can the land units that moved in from the adjacent territory retreat before doing any attack rolls?
You can’t call off an amphibious assault once you’ve won the sea battle. If you fail to win the sea battle, any land units that arrived at the battle by land and any air units must fight for one round before they can retreat.
Another quick one: can fighters that are scrambling (in order to protect a sea zone or to stop an amphibious attack) belong to multiple powers? For instance, if Germany attempts an amphib. assault on the United Kingdom (the territory) would the Allies be allowed to scramble both British and American fighters based there? Or, in the event that Italian ships were being attacked in SZ 97, would Italian fighters be able to scramble from, say, Northern Italy while German fighters scrambled from Greece (assuming that Germany had captured Greece and built an airbase there)? :? I realize these examples would only apply to the Alpha scrambling rules but I figure the principle would be the same in the Europe 1940 OOB rules too. Â
Yes.
Thank you all so much for the quick responses! It’s great to know that A&A has such an active community behind it.
So the sub rules have changed between the original theater level games and the 1940 versions? Wow, seems like the 1940 subs are a way better unit: even if they defend on a 1 now they cost 2 IPC less and are apparently impossible to attack without a destroyer…
Actually, I found subs in the old theatre games to be tougher defensively as they could submerge after 1 round even if a destroyer was present. In the new ones they get sunk by destroyer/air combos much more easily and defend on a 1. The new ones are tougher when no destroyer is around.
However, they are 25% cheaper and can do massive disruption damage (up to 6ipcs, which is their cost, per turn), so they are still a good buy.
I found subs in the old theatre games to be tougher defensively as they could submerge after 1 round even if a destroyer was present.
I don’t recall that from the old versions…
Perhaps we should do a rule check, instead of a morale one?
I just looked… turns out you are correct.
Back in the days when destroyers cost 12, and rolled 3,3, +2 for shore bombard. WOW.
