Red Tails

[Guerrilla Guy]

Sorry to disappoint gents, but Lucas said this was his last major budget film. I saw the trailer and knew it would be crap. “How do you like that, Mr. Hitler?!” is one of the worst lines of dialogue you could write.

GG

[LHoffman]

Yeah, thanks for the confirmation of my suspicions guys.

If Lucas had any inclination to go back to making movies the way he made Star Wars Ep 4-6 and Indiana Jones 1-3 then I would be sad that this was his last “major budget film”. But since he seems incapable of that and wants to make digital movies and hate on the system that made him so successful, well maybe it is best that he retire now and be remembered fondly by cinema history …. and just let everyone forget about Jar-Jar, Shia Labeouf swinging with monkeys and the hollow effort that was Redtails.

Well, no one forgets about Jar-Jar. That move earned him eternal ridicule.

[Young Grasshopper]

Guerrilla Guy
Worst line?… Agreed

Lhoffman
It is proven every year that the old school special effects are way more effective than digital graphics, over the past decade film makers have become lazy in their craft. The only movies where I feel that CG worked 100% were Titanic and Jurasic Park.

Tall Paul, nice post!
As for your take on historical accuracy, I recall in the movie when the new recruit arrived and the Jeep full of vet pilots were razing him, that scene told me everything I needed to know about the quality of the movie. The script was trying for the slang humor of that period and failed to pull it off (unlike a similar scene in the veitnam war movie hamburger hill where they nailed it) case in point, later in the film when one pilot says to the other “are we good?” and the other replies “ya… were good”, proves the lazy accuracy with dialog from that time.

As for Lucas retiring… Maybe it’s time, because it’s obvious that he has lost his willingness to authenticate his imagination. Let’s see if Peter Jackson can fill his shoes.

[frimmel]

“Rise of the Planet of the Apes” was pretty good and it had all kinds of new school CGI. I thought Jackson’s “King Kong” was pretty good too. It isn’t how you do the special effects that is the issue with a lot of the so called film making today. If you don’t start with a good script all the Harry Hausen stop animation in the world isn’t going to help your picture.

[ABWorsham4]

Will any other Star Wars movies get made?

[Guerrilla Guy]

@ABWorsham:

Will any other Star Wars movies get made?

No, Lucas said he won’t make any more Star Wars, and thank God! He’s not made a decent Star Wars film in 30 years. ;)

GG

[LHoffman]

@Young:

Lhoffman
It is proven every year that the old school special effects are way more effective than digital graphics, over the past decade film makers have become lazy in their craft. The only movies where I feel that CG worked 100% were Titanic and Jurasic Park.

Hey, no argument from me. In fact that was what I meant. And yes, I would agree with Jurassic Park I & II … excellent films, and the CGI worked very well. Never seen Titanic, but was the whole ship CGI? Seems the perfect fit for a model with CGI enhancements. I would throw The Lord of the Rings and upcoming Hobbit into this list also. Even though Jackson is old school and loves using models, there was a huge amount of CGI thrown in, which was unobtrusive for the most part. I mean… Gollum alone was totally groundbreaking and entirely believable. Jackson hit it out of the park with LOTR.

@Young:

As for Lucas retiring…. Maybe it’s time, because it’s obvious that he has lost his willingness to authenticate his imagination. Let’s see if Peter Jackson can fill his shoes.

SECONDED!   Sort of.     I mean I don’t want a George Lucas Jr. who makes defining classics and then tanks later in his career. I know none of us want that. I just want quality movies where the special effects (and story) are as real, accurate and meaningful as possible. Movies like Transformers and Avatar (and the new Star Wars trilogy to some extent) have exposed the public as CGI action junkies. It sells, which is unfortunately all the studios care about… so they market more of it. Hopefully we get more people like Jackson who don’t feel the need to stoop so low to acheive only pseudo-lifelike results to please the tasteless masses.       LOTR did well worldwide though, and in the Academy… so maybe there is hope yet.

[LHoffman]

@frimmel:

If you don’t start with a good script all the Harry Hausen stop animation in the world isn’t going to help your picture.

Point.

[Jermofoot]

Red Tails looks like crap, I don’t know how anyone would expect it to be good.  That being said, a friend asked me to see it with him so we’ll go on the cheap and maybe have some beers while doing so.

Honestly, I feel the discussion of old Lucas vs. new Lucas/CGI vs. old school special effects is silly.  The first point frim has already made.  I’d also add that everyone here discussing it is doing so through rose colored glasses.  I’d venture to guess that we were all younger and nostalgia gets the better of us when reflecting on old movies.

Jurassic Park had great special effects…for its time.  I mean, it definitely beats out low and mid budget movies of today, but movies with an equivalent budget for special effects look better today for contemporary audiences.  Check out District 9…half the budget of Jurassic Park with better special effects (that’s before inflation).  There certainly were movies released around the time of Jurassic Park that had higher budgets, but they were paying for big names and such, whereas JP had none (Samuel L. hadn’t even been in Pulp Fiction yet).  Another thing is that with CGI on things we “know” seem to be judged more harshly than things we have no point of reference from.  For example, dinosaurs, robots, aliens…we have no point of reference so they don’t stand out as good or bad, but put some humans or buildings, etc., then you have people easily picking it out from reality.

Some movies I’d bring up with impressive special effects: the aforementioned District 9, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Inception

Plenty complain about Lucas’ newest trilogy.  I thought they were bad, but still enjoyed seeing them (in particular Ep. 1 while I was in high school, although the continuity and script logic is atrocious), yet the original trilogy is not that far off.  The movie plots are pretty hokey themselves.  Teddy Bears fighting an imperial army?  An incredible battlestation destroyed not once but TWICE through a simple vent (that was increased dramatically after the first destruction…WTF?)?  Muppets galore of random goofy creatures…although I like them and think it was Yoda at his best.  I mean, in a galaxy of crazy creatures, Jar Jar does not seem that out of the question for me, and he was filling in for what the Ewoks were in ROTJ: kiddie attractions.

Hell, the original trilogy was nearly a straight translation of a few of Akira Kurosawa’s works (with elements of the Arthurian legend and other myths, etc.).  Not exactly a Lucas original.  Star Wars has always been a feel good drama/action movie, and they always will be.

Also, I don’t get watching a movie in the theater, not liking it, and expecting your money back.  It’s not the theater’s fault that you chose a movie and didn’t like it.  It’s like returning an empty candy bar wrapper to the gas station.

[Tall Paul]

Jermofoot,

I’m not comparing old Lucas vs, new lucas.

I’m not looking through “rose colored glasses”.

I have REALLY enjoyed seeing some well-done CGI in movies.

And I don’t judge “RT” against anything other than normal standards.

But that being said,…

Red Tails is CR*P!!!

And I watch/collect ALL war movies, even if a lot of them aren’t very good, or were made in a time when the “special effects” of that era leave a lot to be desired.

But “RT” is embarasing. Â

“Tall Paul”

[LHoffman]

@Jermofoot:

Honestly, I feel the discussion of old Lucas vs. new Lucas/CGI vs. old school special effects is silly.  The first point frim has already made.  I’d also add that everyone here discussing it is doing so through rose colored glasses.  I’d venture to guess that we were all younger and nostalgia gets the better of us when reflecting on old movies.

Perhaps… but isn’t that part of what age is for?  :-D    But in all seriousness, I (and apparently almost everyone else in the world) thinks trilogy 1 was better than the prequel trilogy. I realize that “which is better” is not the point we are discussing, but part of what makes the original better is the special effects. For whatever reason… Again, not the only thing, but I think a large portion. It just feels more real.

@Jermofoot:

Plenty complain about Lucas’ newest trilogy.  I thought they were bad, but still enjoyed seeing them

I still enjoyed seeing them too. I wouldn’t even call them bad, because I really do like them. It’s just that in comparison most people find Ep. IV-VI to be better films than I-III. I still enjoy watching them and there are a heck of a lot of memorable lines from Ep. I-III to quote among friends. … Most of which happen to be Jar-Jar ones, but that is a side note…

@Jermofoot:

in a galaxy of crazy creatures, Jar Jar does not seem that out of the question for me, and he was filling in for what the Ewoks were in ROTJ: kiddie attractions.

Perhaps that is true. They are equally bogus in real-to-life situations… but there is just that something extra about Jar-Jar Binks (and Gungans in general) which is comical/stupid to the point of embarassment. I am not sure that I can put my finger on it… Can anyone else here? I mean, you just see the guy and laugh because of how he looks, acts and talks… and not in a good laugh. His role of comic relief was overdone for what people expected to be a more serious film. All Jar-Jar jokes in our society today are about mocking the character because he is a blemish on the Star Wars legacy. Ewoks as furry aborigines are much more acceptable to me than, well, a Jar-Jar Binks is.

But hey, maybe Jerm is right and we are looking through rose colored glasses. It sure seems like most Star Wars fans are wearing the same glasses then, even those younger ones for whom Ep. I-III is “their generation’s” Star Wars. I am just saying that it seems a consensus about Jar-Jar Binks. But maybe history will prove us wrong and he will become like Yoda or something.

Sorry… this is a galaxy far, far away from the topic.

[FieldMarshalGames]

@Tall:

Jermofoot,

I’m not comparing old Lucas vs, new lucas.

I’m not looking through “rose colored glasses”.

I have REALLY enjoyed seeing some well-done CGI in movies.

And I don’t judge “RT” against anything other than normal standards.

But that being said,…

Red Tails is CR*P!!!

And I watch/collect ALL war movies, even if a lot of them aren’t very good, or were made in a time when the “special effects” of that era leave a lot to be desired.

But “RT” is embarasing. �

“Tall Paul”

Thanks for the Heads up….    I also collect WW2 movies.  I was looking forward to this one  :x

Guess I will leave a gap in my collection (right beside the empty space where Inglorious Bastards should be.

[militaryman077]

My brother and I saw it at a local theater the Friday it came out and he hated it because as he said it lacked action and didnt have surround sound. he gave it a “……” .lol

[Admiral_Thrawn]

I really liked it. It felt like an old school WW2 movie.

[Young Grasshopper]

@Admiral_Thrawn:

I really liked it. It felt like an old school WW2 movie.

If by old school you mean “Lassie comes home” or “Return to witch mountian” than maybe.

[Tall Paul]

You know, I agree that “Inglorious Bastards” was a bad movie, but I thought that it was only offerred up as a toungue-in-cheek kind of flick, not a real war movie. Something like that old Charlie Sheen “silly” navy movie with the old “Sea Hunt” actor. Sorry, I can’t think of his name and don’t have much time. It wasn’t really supposed to be a serious movie,…was it?

“Tall Paul”

[Gargantua]

The best part of Inglorious Basterds, is that the Bear Jew dies in the end.

[Clyde85]

Wow, I know the movie wasnt great but its not like we’re dealing with Transformers 2 here (I was really dissapointed by that movie, you’re supposed to wait until the 3rd instalment to really screw up a triology)

The movie wasnt great but I could kind of guess that going into the theater so I had adjusted my expectations accordingly. Thinking it was going to be awful I was pleasantly suprised how “good” it actually was. It never really had a “slam dunk” moment but made more then enough lay-up’s to win the game. I view the movie as kind of a throw back to those old celebratory action flicks that were made back in the hay-day of patriotic war films. It seems cheezy at times but I think red tails really harkens back to the guazy, broadly drawn American war films produced in the immidet after math of the conflict. Given that the Tuskeege airmen were often over looked for a long time post conflict despite having an exemplary combat record, I view Red Tails as a long over due tributre movie that just got left in a studio vault in 1946 and was only reccently re-discovered, dusted off, and made with little to no changes. Viewed this was the movie wasn’t all that bad to me  :-)

[Tall Paul]

Clyde85,

I understand your appreciation of their real life exploits, and I also take my hat off to those fine flyers. But there has already been a MUCH BETTER film made about them called “The Tuskeegee Airmen” that focused the spotlight on them.

I’m NOT in favor of heaping praise on any project or thing simply because of it’s political correctness.

This was a BAD film,…and as a film deserves to be called that.

Again, I repeat, I applaud the real-life “Tuskeegee Airmen”. I’m planning to paint one of my HBG P-51s in their scheme. And I’m NOT making any statement other than as a movie, this was a really BAD one.

“Tall Paul”

[Gargantua]

Sarcastic

When are we going to see a movie about some of the waffen SS divisions, and all their persecution after the war,  and all the challenges they faced getting in to the SS, because of the high standard of racial profiling, and correctness.

What a challenge that must have been, to prove family history back to 1750,  and the trials and tribulations they must have faced, in a world at war.

What a heart warming movie of human success that would be.