That’s the point though. Sea Lion is an objective for Germany but there is no justification for doing while the USSR is still a credible threat because once you capture London, there is no way in hell you can defend against the US liberation and the Soviet invasion. Hence, just don’t do it. I am only suggesting that if one wanted to do an early Sea Lion, you will need Japan to put so much pressure on USSR that Germany can focus completely on US thus Japan will lose in the Pacific. I agree Sea Lion isn’t a wise move.
Operation Sealion? Really?
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One thing I think you’re missing, stompy, is that a normal Sealion happens on G3, not G2.
On G3 you buy 10 Transports, for a total of 13 Transports.
This gives you 26 land units, not 6.Edit:Â Darn it, Jim.
Sorry.
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There’s also a G4 variation, I’d point out.
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The last two weekends I was Germany and Sealion worked both times. The first one my dice went south when I turned against Russia, the second one my opponents didn’t have the rolls and I was able to win
Turn 1 1 Carrier, 1 Destroyer, 1Sub
Turn 2 8 Transports
Turn 3 Inf, Art, Arm, and try to replace any aircraft lost and possibly a SubTurn 1 Take the French Capital and hit Sea zones 112 with BB and CR and a plane or two. S.Z. 111 with a Sub or two ( 118 &124). 110 I’ll send 6 planes ( 3 Tact’s & 3 Fighters) I also send the sub from 108. S.Z. 106 with a Sub or two, I will sometimes send a Sub down to S.Z. if I don’t send two at 106. I hope they scramble on the 110 battle because with 7 attacks I can sink everything there and with some luck eliminate Fighters that they will need for defense of their Capital. With the ALPHA+3 Germany has more planes (stat. bombers) that could help out.
I also bring my Italian Airforce up to take out any British Navy that they may deploy in 110.
Young Grasshopper has a good opening first 3 turn sealion stat posted in this thread just go look for it
Pray to the dice gods or wear your lucky shirt,shoes,sweater, or whateverGood luck and keep on rollin
Depending on what U.K. does determines how many Transports you’ll need to buy
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Can fighters scramble from the UK? I was under the impression that fighters could only scramble from and island. An island being a territory within a sea zone. I don’t believe that the UK qualifies.
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Can fighters scramble from the UK? I was under the impression that fighters could only scramble from and island. An island being a territory within a sea zone. I don’t believe that the UK qualifies.
per OOB rules, the UK territories do not count as islands and cannot scramble. Per Alpha rules, airbases have been revised such that any airbase can scramble to adjacent seazones.
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A variation on sealion I’d suggest is to make bomber buys G1, and strat. bomb London on G1 and G2.
It sets up an interesting scenario; you can pass on the immediate Sealion, going Barbarossa and using those bombers to strat. bomb Russian IC’s, while at the same time keeping an eye on London… often times, the UK player is so excited to build IC’s in the middle east, or navy in Canada, that they neglect to pay off the damage, and even with a modest income the Germans can plop seven transports at once at any time (even better if you discretely build one or two in the meantime).
Of course, against a perfect opponent such nefariousness is not possible, but nobody is perfect.
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How about 2 bombers, 1 sub. If UK builds all infantry, you stick the sub in z125 to block the Murmansk NO and the bombers help you kill Russians. If London is weak, you convoy raid and bomb London, then use them in the sea lion attack itself.
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How do you defend sz112 from an attack on UK1?
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You don’t. Leave the surface ships in z113 or use them to attack z110 or z111 (assuming the the new setup).
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In the new set up, the CAs are still in sz112. You can’t get out.
So you skip sz112. Interesting. What does France and UK do with those ships?
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In Krieghund’s most recent proposed changes, the 112 CAs are moved -
French ship to 110
UK ship to 111.Along with a few other changes.
None of those changes are official at all yet. -
I’m aware of those changes, but is Larry even considering them, or is this Krieghund unofficially trying to make up for his boss’s mistakes that he himself won’t correct?
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I like ALPHA+2 so far it has been the most challenging for the Axis. The 3 or 3.5 (I have both coppied on cardboard) take too much away ( Brit’s in France, air & naval bases over the entire board) and seem to make easier for the Axis to get powerfull early in the game, and with a little luck the Allies cant catch up in time
I forgot to say seazone 91 I send one sub about half the time, and seazone 111 a sub and a couple planes ( stat. bomber, a fighter or two and a tact. or two) I change it a little each time seazone 112 a BB and Crusier and a plane or two and deploy my CV DD and sub there
I say take the best of each one to make an ALPHA+16 give Germ. the extra Strat & Inf in Norway, Great Britian gets the tact, keep the BB for Russia etc.
If it aint broke dont fix it -
I’m aware of those changes, but is Larry even considering them, or is this Krieghund unofficially trying to make up for his boss’s mistakes that he himself won’t correct?
I can’t really say either way. It seems to me like it’s just Krieg doign this, but I can’t speak for him.
Surprise Attack -
I agree with you. I think Alpha 2 was quite a bit more balanced and had more interesting options for both sides, and many choices that had to be made.
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My question is, has anyone checked how Krieg’s alterations adjusts the percentages?
Anyway, there’s literally no way for England to stop Sea Lion in Alpha 3, well, short of getting 21x 1’s on the dice! The question is, what do you do after it falls? Some have claimed the ridiculous tactic of buying all fleet for Russia on round 1 so the Russians can soften up the Germans for an American attack on Germany the round London dies (with the Americans in SZ 102). Without the Russians, there’s not a snowball’s chance in hades of sinking the German fleet - but with the Russian fleet, perhaps Moscow becomes a juicier target? It’s certainly possible to win a Barbarossa game, and if Russia goes full navy, shouldnt those odds improve? Moscow, Stalingrad and Leningrad are 3 Victory Cities, London is one, and let’s not forget shifting priorties to Moscow grants Germany 70 IPC extra ground and air units for the attack (since they do not buy transports.)
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Even Alpha 2 there was no way of getting Sealion below 60%.
Russian navy? Interesting.
My first impulse is to laugh, but maybe there’s something to it? Where do they build it? Baltic or Arctic?
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In the 3 games where Russia has bought into a navy it has only worked once. That was because Germany left their capital empty. That was one of the first games (ALPHA+2)
The cost of even a DD is just that much less that Russia has in land units to stop the Germans.
In one of our most recent games the Russian’s did buy into a navy but I think that was just for show because it was pretty much over. My dice went so far south it wasn’t funny. -
So what you’re saying is that I should give into the impulse to laugh.
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Even Alpha 2 there was no way of getting Sealion below 60%.
Well I think that’s pretty important for game balance.
I don’t think UK should ever be able to completely remove the chance of Sealion.
But that 60% number is a heck of a lot better than the situation in Alpha 3. Even with a full-defense UK Germany still has nearly unstoppable odds. -
Russian navy? Interesting.
My first impulse is to laugh, but maybe there’s something to it? Where do they build it? Baltic or Arctic?
To attack the German fleet in SZ 110, it would have to be built north of Novgorod in the Arctic. The purpose is to make it statistically possible for the Americans to sink the Germans with all the fighter/bombers on their carriers in SZ 102 and their strategic bombers from E. USA (assuming Germany does not take Scotland of course.)
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