I really don’t think anything should be off limits. If someone is offended by something you make, then they can either choose to accept that even though they were horrible people, they did play a major part, and use your cards, or just not use your cards at all. That’s just my opinion though, and some people might object. I have no problem is what I guess I’m saying.
I really don’t think anything should be off limits. If someone is offended by something you make, then they can either choose to accept that even though they were horrible people, they did play a major part, and use your cards, or just not use your cards at all. That’s just my opinion though, and some people might object. I have no problem is what I guess I’m saying.
Yeah, I think I’ll go with your advice. People could just not allow the specific card(s) that offend them. If, for example, a Ukrainian person is offending that I’ve included Kaganovich (he was involved in causing the Ukrainian famine in the 1930s), then they can just burn his card and use the rest of the set. Or ignore the set entirely.
Since I’m (obviously) not going to include event cards/national advantages for committing atrocities, it probably won’t be a big deal to include cards of people who committed such acts. After all, if you are playing this game then someone is playing Hitler and Stalin anyway.
I agree with otahere34. you should not limit the cards for anything. what those people did was horrible but history is history and people who don’t like the cards having war criminals on them should realize that you can’t change history you can only remember it. if anyone doesn’t like them on the cards they should just take them out when they print them off.
(also for a French military leader you should get a naval one because of all the navy France gets on the board) i am looking for one and will tell you when i find one
How about for a commander,Chief Marshal Dowding of the British.he decided to keep many air units in britian During and after Dunkirk to prepare British mainland defenses. he could give an extra plane in Britain if the card is played the turn after France is taken. :?
also can there be a card for the Italian Fascist militia and the communist conscripts. they would maybe be cards that cause inf to cost less for a turn or maybe cost less for the whole game and their defense is one less. :|
-also maybe an event card to rep the Russian recruitment of women in large numbers for skilled jobs like snipers, pilots for planes and tank
@Ghost:
I agree with otahere34. you should not limit the cards for anything. what those people did was horrible but history is history and people who don’t like the cards having war criminals on them should realize that you can’t change history you can only remember it. if anyone doesn’t like them on the cards they should just take them out when they print them off.
(also for a French military leader you should get a naval one because of all the navy France gets on the board) i am looking for one and will tell you when i find one
Good, I’m glad people seem to be in general agreement about this. :)
Darlan is an obvious choice for the French naval leader. At first he served Vichy France but he eventually defected to the allies only to be killed shortly thereafter. Paying 10 ipcs may reprsent persuading him to join the winning side.
@Ghost:
How about for a commander,Chief Marshal Dowding of the British.he decided to keep many air units in britian During and after Dunkirk to prepare British mainland defenses. he could give an extra plane in Britain if the card is played the turn after France is taken. :?
also can there be a card for the Italian Fascist militia and the communist conscripts. they would maybe be cards that cause inf to cost less for a turn or maybe cost less for the whole game and their defense is one less. :|
-also maybe an event card to rep the Russian recruitment of women in large numbers for skilled jobs like snipers, pilots for planes and tank
Dowding will be in there (as will bomber Harris). The Russians will have a great patriotic war card that will give a one turn conscription bonus. Also they’ll have a chief of staff card that will permanently reduce the price of infantry by 1 ipc. I wan’t going to have a specific women card but I was thinking about using this pic for the Great Patriotic War.
Re: Fascist militia, I’ll look into that.
Oh yes, I’ve added a concept. Some of the cards will be chief of staff cards who give various bonuses (like the other commanders). You may only have one Chief of Staff in play at a time. You can hold onto a second chief of staff card, of course. Chiefs of staff wouldn’t be discarded if you switched them out (which you’d do at the start of a new turn). They’d go back to you hand but there should be some minor ipc cost for switching chiefs of staff so people don’t do it every turn.
Great :-D all that sounds good, i love the pic for the GPW. also if you have the time could you post an update list of the card types thanks :lol: and keep asking questions about our thoughts it is appreciated.
@Ghost:
Great :-D all that sounds good, i love the pic for the GPW. also if you have the time could you post an update list of the card types thanks :lol: and keep asking questions about our thoughts it is appreciated.
Revised Card Types
Cabinet Ministers- Cabinet Members range from Civilian, Corporate, and Military figures who will aid the war effort in a variety of ways. Examples would include people like Albert Speer, Molotov, or George Marshall.
Chief of Staff- The Chief of Staff is a special type of cabinet minister who gives a benefit to the entire military. While you may have many Chief of Staff cards in your hand, only one may be in play at a time. For 5 ipcs you may replace your existing Chief of Staff with another Chief of Staff card from your hand. The dismissed Chief of Staff card is not discarded. Rather, it returns to your hand. You never know if you’ll need to call on his services again.
Commanders- Commander cards would be able to grant their special bonus to one battle per turn. So, General Chukov’s benefits could be used on both the German and Soviet turns but only during one battle in each of those turns. These cards’ benefits may stack, so you could have multiple commanders giving their unique benefits to a single battle. Commanders will have a skill level and rank for optional rules.
Corporations- Corporations give various benefits to the war effort but are located in a specific territory. If that territory is captured you no longer gain the corporation’s benefits until you can liberate the territory. Examples would be Krupp, various Soviet Design Bureaus, or Chrysler.
National Advantages- These cards would represent unique national advantages for the various nations that aren’t covered in the other types. A couple examples would be the Trans Siberian Railroad or Japanese banzai attacks.
Puppets- These cards represent people like Vidkun Quisling or Pu Yi. They give a onetime bonus to the occupied territory that they are from and are then (usually) discarded.
Puppets- These cards represent people like Vidkun Quisling or Pu Yi. They (generally) give a onetime bonus to the occupied territory that they are from and are then discarded.
Special Events- Special Event cards would cover unique events in the war. For example the establishment of the Vichy Regime in France would count as a special event. A few “what if” events would be included, like the proposed Franco-British Union, or German the conquest of the Archangelsk to Astrakan line. Events will require certain parameters to be met before they may be played. After use these cards are discarded.
Soviet Chiefs of Staff
For the Soviet Chiefs of Staff I’m using various individuals who were Chief of the General Staff of the Soviet Armed forces during Wartime. I’m also using a few people who had the position of People’s Commissar for Defence during the war. Some people who had these positions won’t be represented by a Chief of Staff card as they either served for too short a time or I’d prefer to use them as a regular commander.
With Commander/Chief of Staff Cards, I’ll try to include a relevant quote from the individual in question.
Boris Shaposhnikov
“In any case, we will see a certain gradualism and advance steps in preparing mobilization in all spheres to a much greater degree than in 1914.”
Effect: Infantry cost 1 ipc less.
Joseph Stalin
“In the Soviet Army, it takes more courage to retreat than advance.”
Effect: Soviet infantry defend at +1 during the first cycle of Combat.
SemyonTimoshenko
“It is necessary to keep in mind the possibility of simultaneously conducting two, if not three, offensive operations of various fronts on a theater of war with the intention of strategically shaking the enemy’s entire combat capability as extensively as possible.”
Effect: If the Soviet Union attacks three or more land territories during its turn then all German units defend at -1 during the first cycle of combat.
Aleksandr Vasilevsky
“Our offensive on Kharkov demands that we not lose time and we commit all forces so that we can draw off as many divisions as possible.”
Effect: Soviet tanks and Mechanized infantry have a move of 3, but still follow the normal blitzing rules.
Kliment Voroshilov
“Whoever can lift a rifle, should have one.”
Effect: Soviet forces attack at +1 for all cycles of combat, but their casualties are doubled.
DB, This is great. I can’t wait to see the end result of all your hard work. This kind’ve reminds me of Risk Godstorm where cards can alter your strategies and the outcome of the game.
For the issues of German Chiefs of Staff I’m going to take people from the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (Supreme Command of the Armed Forces) as well as people from the Oberkommando des Heeres (the Army High Command). Despite the names, the OKH was basically independent of the OKW until a few days before the end of the war. Thus I’m considering the following individuals for the Chief of Staff cards for Germany:
Wilhelm Keitel- Head of the OKW
Alfred Jodl- Keitel’s deputy
Reichsmarschall Hermann Goring- The Head of the Airforce (nominally under the OKW, had the highest rank in the German Military)
Grossadmiral Erich Raeder- the Head of the Navy through 1943 (nominally under the OKW)
Generalfeldmarschall Walther von Brauchitsch- Head of OKH through 1941
Adolf Hitler- Head of the OKH through 1945
General Franz Halder- Army Chief of Staff (under OKH head) from 1938 to 1942
General Kurt Zeitzler Army Chief of Staff (under OKH head) from 1942 to 1944
Grossadmiral Karl Donitz was in charge of the Navy after Raeder, and General Heinz Guderian followed Zeitler as Army Chief of staff. I’m uncertain about whether to include them as regular commanders or as Chief of Staff Cards. Would it be more fun for Heinz to be commanding an individual army (he got so close to Moscow, after all) or giving him an army wide bonus?
The Guderian question is particularly vexing to me. I think he was a great commander, but I also think he was the best Chief of Staff that the army had. Plus, he basically invented Blitzkreig.
Edit: Oh sweet, this was my 100th post. Now I’m an artillery piece. Bwahaha!
Whether or not any of the individuals that you use in these cards were accused/convicted of war crimes is irrelevant. I know that the atrocities were a part of the actual history of WW2, but in Axis & Allies we don’t deal with that part. We only deal with the military conflict. So if these individuals participated in the military war effort, they should be included.
Here’s another way to look at it; in many of our games, the Axis win and take over the world. So, in that case, there would be no Nuremburg trials. Those individuals that were accused of war crimes in actual history instead would be hailed as heros of the Fatherland. Remember, it’s the victors that write the history books.
By the way dannyboy2016, love your artillery piece. That’s the 800mm Gustav, right?
Whether or not any of the individuals that you use in these cards were accused/convicted of war crimes is irrelevant. I know that the atrocities were a part of the actual history of WW2, but in Axis & Allies we don’t deal with that part. We only deal with the military conflict. So if these individuals participated in the military war effort, they should be included.
Here’s another way to look at it; in many of our games, the Axis win and take over the world. So, in that case, there would be no Nuremburg trials. Those individuals that were accused of war crimes in actual history instead would be hailed as heros of the Fatherland. Remember, it’s the victors that write the history books.
By the way dannyboy2016, love your artillery piece. That’s the 800mm Gustav, right?
Yeah, that’s my basic way of thinking about it. If a game like Hearts of Iron can have people like Heydrich, Kaltenbrunner, Himmler, and Frick in it as ministers then I don’t see a problem with including people like Speer, Goring, Keitel, Jodl, etc. And if someone is offended by a particular card for some reason then they can just not use the offending card.
You are correct about victors writing the history. If Germany had won then “bomber” Harris would probably have been treated as a war criminal as would the vast majority of the Soviet government.
Finally, yes that’s the Gustav. Did you know they were trying to build a self propelled version of that monster? Speer canceled the project because it was so obviously wasteful.
I’m going to be in San Francisco most of this week for work, but I intend to have a full list of soviet cards and effects posted next week. Any suggestions for the Soviet Union would be most appreciated. Here is the big list of planned Soviet cards so far
CABINET CARDS
Lavrenty Beria
Lazar Kagnanovich
Georgy Malenkov
Anastas Mikoyan
Vyacheslav Molotov
Nikita Khrushchev
Nikolai Voznesensky
Andrei Zhdanov
CHIEF OF STAFF CARDS
Boris Shaposhnikov
Joseph Stalin
Semyon Timoshenko
Aleksandr Vasilevsky
Kliment Voroshilov
COMMANDER CARDS
Chuikov
Konev
Kuznetsov
Novikov
Rokossovskiy
Zhukov
CORPORATION CARDS
Tula Arms Plant
Uralvagonzavod Factory
Ilyushin Design Bureau
Tupolev Design Bureau
Chelyabinsk Kirov Narkomtankprom Plant
NATIONAL ADVANTAGES
Black Sea Fleet
JS 2 Heavy tank
Katyusha Rockets
Lucy Spy Ring
Pacific Fleet
Partisans
Sharashka
Richard Sorge
Stavka
Tank Guard Divisions
Trans Siberian Railroad
PUPPETS
Kim Il-sung
Khorloogiin Choibalsan
Mao Zedong
Josip Broz Tito
SPECIAL EVENT CARDS
General Winter
Great Patriotic War
Lend Lease USSR
Not one Step Backwards
Rasputitsa
State Defense Committee
Anything else you guys would want to see? I’d like to get Russia and the German set in stone first before moving on to the UK, US, Japan, Italy and then revising the minors.
Maybe, if Germany is at war with the USSR and Japan isn’t then you could get some free reinforcements in Moscow to represent Siberian forces that were rushed there (including many tanks, which sadly aren’t in Holy Larry’s oob for Siberia). Do you have any ideas on what Sorge’s effects should be?
The idea you’ve just described sounds pretty good.
Anything else you guys would want to see? I’d like to get Russia and the German set in stone first before moving on to the UK, US, Japan, Italy and then revising the minors.
How about a card for:
For the issues of German Chiefs of Staff I’m going to take people from the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (Supreme Command of the Armed Forces) as well as people from the Oberkommando des Heeres (the Army High Command). Despite the names, the OKH was basically independent of the OKW until a few days before the end of the war. Thus I’m considering the following individuals for the Chief of Staff cards for Germany:
Wilhelm Keitel- Head of the OKW
Alfred Jodl- Keitel’s deputy
Reichsmarschall Hermann Goring- The Head of the Airforce (nominally under the OKW, had the highest rank in the German Military)
Grossadmiral Erich Raeder- the Head of the Navy through 1943 (nominally under the OKW)
Generalfeldmarschall Walther von Brauchitsch- Head of OKH through 1941
Adolf Hitler- Head of the OKH through 1945
General Franz Halder- Army Chief of Staff (under OKH head) from 1938 to 1942
General Kurt Zeitzler Army Chief of Staff (under OKH head) from 1942 to 1944Grossadmiral Karl Donitz was in charge of the Navy after Raeder, and General Heinz Guderian followed Zeitler as Army Chief of staff. I’m uncertain about whether to include them as regular commanders or as Chief of Staff Cards. Would it be more fun for Heinz to be commanding an individual army (he got so close to Moscow, after all) or giving him an army wide bonus?
The Guderian question is particularly vexing to me. I think he was a great commander, but I also think he was the best Chief of Staff that the army had. Plus, he basically invented Blitzkreig.
I like the idea of your cards (made a smaller deck for Classic a few years ago), but I really think that you should reconsider some of the names you mentioned above, not because of war crimes issues but because of their incompetence, like Keitel and Goering.
I like the division you made regarding the 3 levels for people, strategic/operational/tactical, what you could do probably would be that each person can have more than 1 skill. For instance, Guderian could play all the 3: as Inspector General for Armor he became responsible for tank design and improvement (strategic); as Chief of Staff he would improve movement of armor (operational); as Army commander any tanks would hit with a 4.
Anything else you guys would want to see? I’d like to get Russia and the German set in stone first before moving on to the UK, US, Japan, Italy and then revising the minors.
Industrial Redeployment (IC from Ukraine to Urals)
Shock Armies (or your Guards Divisions)
Deep Battle
Maskirovka
Siberian Divisions
an idea for a Russian event card is a winter war card to represent the Russian invasion of Finland before the Germans attacked. on the first round of combat Finnish units defend at a -1 and Russian attack at a +1. on the second round Finnish defend at a +1 and Russian attack at a -1 or regular. all rounds after that are normal. this would apply only once to a Russian attack on Finland.
I like the idea of your cards (made a smaller deck for Classic a few years ago), but I really think that you should reconsider some of the names you mentioned above, not because of war crimes issues but because of their incompetence, like Keitel and Goering.
Alternately, these could be treated as “disadvantage” cards, with negative effects, for offensive use against another player rather than to boost one’s own country. The same concept could apply to “negative techs” like the defective US torpedoes mentioned in another thread. So for example, if the player for Japan happens to get a “defective US torpedo” card, he could play this disadvantage card and thus negatively affect the US player. It’s the reverse concept of an “advantage” card – for example a Japanese Long Lance torpedo “positive tech” card which the player for Japan would play to positively affect himself.
I think that’s a very good idea. :-D having disadvantage cards will let you have advantages that are usually just luck in real life (like Hitlers refusal to move his tanks from upper France to Normandy allowed the allies to gain a foot holed which would not have happened if Hitler had moved his tanks.) the disadvantage cards could provide advantages over specific countries.
These are pretty cool. If you don’t already have this card, it could be a battle of the buldge type card. When German forces attack allied forces on Europe the allied forces don’t get to roll the first round. For Japan you could have a Pearl Harbor type card, where the first time you attack the U.S. navy, they don’t roll the first round. IDK for Italy cause i don’t really know to much about them.
