???????????? (Axis) vs Corriganhp (Allies)- Alpha3- no tech

[corriganbp]

I want to get this issue of whether or not keeping the cv was the “right” move.

Let’s walk thru it step by step (one or both of us may walk away learning something by this exercise),

if we turned the tables and you were the allies, if you had to assign 2 hits, would you have lost 2 ftrs, or dmg the cv and lost 1 ftr?

[questioneer]

@corriganbp:

I am not sure why leaving planes on the carrier are relevant or not, you can fly planes to 110 in anticipation of a possible scramble even if those planes weren’t stationed on a carrier to begin with.

The problem with the cv, dmg or undmg’d is that you an then use the sub as cannon fodder, and that pretty much wipes out the usefulness of leaving it in tact.

Plus if I had kept the cv, the Italians would have shot down at least 1 ftr, and more likely 2 or more.

Ah right on planes on CV.  Maybe I would have shot down at least one ftr but the fact that you keep the CV…

1BB, 1SS, 1CV (no fire)
vs
1CV, 6ftrs, 1tac

I wasn’t even planning on using the CZ b/c I needed it to block the US from reaching Gibr- this was hinted in the Italian DD moving out to the Atlantic to block.  The fact is that you can force me to think and "commit " planes to the sea battle that would then not be used for the land battle then bettering your odds for survival greatly.

[corriganbp]

you would definitely have shot down 1 ftr, you rolled 2 hits!  I couldn’t avoid that!  me personally, if my objective is sea lion, my italian bomber would be worth sacrificing to take a shot at shooting down at least 1 more fighter.

[corriganbp]

the usa isn’t going to gib, it’s going to canada to stage a liberation effort - so I would not have predicted that the cruiser wouldn’t be used, and wait a minute, if the cruiser was going to 104, then it should not have been allowed to bombard.

[questioneer]

@corriganbp:

I want to get this issue of whether or not keeping the cv was the “right” move.

Let’s walk thru it step by step (one or both of us may walk away learning something by this exercise),

if we turned the tables and you were the allies, if you had to assign 2 hits, would you have lost 2 ftrs, or dmg the cv and lost 1 ftr?

1. Ok if I were you I would have taken out a French fighter and damaged the CV

2. Then as Germany you would have come in with 1BB, 1SS, 1CV.  You would NOT come in with the cruiser (which I believe I indicated that in the combat move list- this is why it is important to list out the combat moves but no necessarily the NCMs) b/c that was going to be non-combated into z103 later to block US ships from Gibr for a round.

3. As Germany you would see that in order to make a safe landing you need to overcome 1AC and possibly 5ftrs and a tac (crazy as that scramble sounds) which could destroy your invading fleet- according to the AABattleCalc that nearly a 100% win for UK.

4. Germany would have to declare at least 2,3 maybe 4 escorts to the naval battle to ensure your troops get to the coast.

5. When you declare them, as UK I declare none, forcing you to now commit those planes to take out the CV.  Those same aircraft now can’t help in the invasion- making Sealion very hard for Germany now- probably near 55% or below versus 77% depending how many aircraft they committed.

Germany would have had to do the same thing in z109 with the DD there.  Now I kinda see why some people take out those transports so land units don’t get to UK to beef it up.

[questioneer]

@corriganbp:

the usa isn’t going to gib, it’s going to canada to stage a liberation effort - so I would not have predicted that the cruiser wouldn’t be used, and wait a minute, if the cruiser was going to 104, then it should not have been allowed to bombard.

I don’t believe it did- if it did then that is my fault- however, one 3 hit didn’t seem to make a difference in Sealion this time.  Even with the CZ, as UK I probably would have scramble all aircraft b/c UK still has the odds.

[questioneer]

Ah, nevermind I caught myself- an airbase can only scramble up to 3ftr/tac anyway- that mutes my argument- man, I gotta brush up on these rules. :-(

[corriganbp]

I am limited to a 3 planes in the scramble.

[corriganbp]

so you agree that losing the cv was a decent move?

[questioneer]

LOL- I have to laugh at myself sometimes- all this thinking and overthinking one can do in this game and I forget a detail on a rule- ugghh. :-D

[corriganbp]

it’s very easy to do that.

unlimited scrambles would be one effective way to reduce the sea lion odds.

[questioneer]

@corriganbp:

so you agree that losing the cv was a decent move?

well let’s look at the odds now

att
1CV, 1BB, 1SS

def
3ftr, 1CV-damaged

…actually no the BattleCalc says 83.3% UK advantage still…hmmm interesting- you got the battlecalc app???  Very handy. :wink:

[questioneer]

that b/c the CV can take hits but can’t dish them out

Att only has 2 hitting units
Def 4 hitting units

[questioneer]

Gotta go right now- we’ll talk more later tonight maybe.  Go get the AASim app for your phone- by Skelly- really nice. :-)

[corriganbp]

well let’s look at the odds now

att
1CV, 1BB, 1SS

def
3ftr, 1CV-damaged

wait a minute, given the fact that I’m down 1-2 fighters on land, you wouldn’t have committed a couple of planes to the sea?

[corriganbp]

and why would I assume that you weren’t bringing the cruiser?

[corriganbp]

if you bring in the cruiser and 1 bomber, I’ve only got a 7% shot at knocking out the transports.

so you would go forward with 1 less bomber, and I would have 1-2 fewer fighters.

if I had one less fighter and you had 1 fewer bombers, your odds are pretty much the same,

but the thing is, I would have expected your Italian bomber to take one last shot, and so if I was down 2 fighters, your odds are improved by about 10% and that’s really significant because they you not only have better odds on land, you have better odds at sea.

[questioneer]

I get it now- yes you were right- the AC takeaway was the best move.

Anyway- where were we???

Do we play on???

[corriganbp]

yes, we play on.  will try to get my turns done tomorrow.

[questioneer]

this is the last map from my last turn

QvsCor_ag3.AAM