UK Gov't in exile Discussion - Delta 1

[Guest]

No no. After London falls, Germany takes UK Europe’s money.  All the gov’t in exile has is the $7 they start earning for the Canadian territories.  The will never have more than $7 to spend unless they save it up or liberate London.

[Young Grasshopper]

Is there a version where it says to swap the minor in Quebec with a major once the UK gov. becomes exiled?

[Guest]

No we don’t have a version like that.  It seems kind of wierd to be moving a facility like a minor IC.  Maybe there could be an item in the setup changes vote for moving the Minor IC in Quebec to Ontario at setup (just like the moving malta airbase to egypt idea)

[Jennifer]

I see the gov’t in Exile as just that, the UK Capitol moved to Ontario until London is liberated.

1. Why are the limited to just Canada?
2. If they are limited to just Canada, what’s the point?

I don’t think Canada should start with any money.  Whatever they saved from England is lost paying to move the government and creating a government in Canada.  The rest is captured by Germany, Italy or Japan when London falls.  Basically, like any other capitol which makes sense to me.

Canada collects on the next round for all liberated territories, again, just like if you liberated the British capitol, which makes sense to me.

Likewise, they can use any British complexes currently in British control, as any capitol would.

Given these conditions, it is reasonable for Canada to expect to make as much as Australia or India for a few rounds at least, until the Axis can take away enough land.

Basically, the idea is it is the British capitol once London falls, but to penalyze them for losing London (and to negate the benefit of just abandoning England and letting the Axis take it free) is they lose the entire treasury.

[Jennifer]

@Young:

Is there a version where it says to swap the minor in Quebec with a major once the UK gov. becomes exiled?

Cannot, legally.  Quebec is only worth 2 IPC.  As such, it is prohibited from containing a major complex.  (Another reason to add a minor to Ontario.)

[Guest]

Jennifer, I thought we were limiting the income of the Government in Exile to just UK territories in the Americas.

[Jennifer]

@Vance:

Jennifer, I thought we were limiting the income of the Government in Exile to just UK territories in the Americas.

I disagree. I think it should, literally, become the British capitol.  In exchange for this privalege, the Germans, Italians and/or Japanese get the entire British treasury.

It is my intent to make the government in Exile make England functionable even if Sea Lion succeeds.

[Young Grasshopper]

@Cmdr:

@Vance:

Jennifer, I thought we were limiting the income of the Government in Exile to just UK territories in the Americas.

I disagree. I think it should, literally, become the British capitol.  In exchange for this privalege, the Germans, Italians and/or Japanese get the entire British treasury.

It is my intent to make the government in Exile make England functionable even if Sea Lion succeeds.

I 100% agree with this.

[Guest]

Jennifer, can you please give provide a version of the Gov’t in Exile rule that you would support?  If you do that I will add it as “Version 9” to the poll and everyone can vote on your idea.  thanks.

[JimmyHat]

Jenn you should put together a list of ideas for the exile gov.  That way we have a few versions to look at and play test to see if one works better over the other.

I like what you have here and will add comments in red.

@Cmdr:

I see the gov’t in Exile as just that, the UK Capitol moved to Ontario until London is liberated.

1. Why are the limited to just Canada?
2. If they are limited to just Canada, what’s the point?
   arguably the only real point is to give the UK player something to do.  7ipcs isn’t going to largely affect the game.

I don’t think Canada should start with any money.  Whatever they saved from England is lost paying to move the government and creating a government in Canada.  The rest is captured by Germany, Italy or Japan when London falls.  Basically, like any other capitol which makes sense to me.
I agree.

Canada collects on the next round for all liberated territories, again, just like if you liberated the British capitol, which makes sense to me.

Likewise, they can use any British complexes currently in British control, as any capitol would.

Given these conditions, it is reasonable for Canada to expect to make as much as Australia or India for a few rounds at least, until the Axis can take away enough land.
Well, with these options I don’t see why Canada would need extra production, Safrica still being viable.  I think this is going to make UK really tough, they will have the ipcs to still fight in Africa and defend the Atlantic.  Perhaps by adding in Vance’s idea of dropping the sz109 convoy and adding the London NO for Germ will offset this?  UK also losses production for a round and we could give Canada no NO’s.  Its an intriguing idea and I think valid if we can make sure Canada isn’t super-powerful.

Basically, the idea is it is the British capitol once London falls, but to penalyze them for losing London (and to negate the benefit of just abandoning England and letting the Axis take it free) is they lose the entire treasury.

UK should never be tempted to abandon London and head for Canada…I think the penalty may have to be more harsh.

EDIT: deleting the convoy zone for 109 is a great idea, but going to be hard to sell and keep track of.  Now we have to mark when a convoy zone is ‘inactive’, any ideas?

[Young Grasshopper]

Or we could just tweak one of the more popular versions that already exists. It’s like when Tuco from the good the bad and the ugly, made himself a great gun from the parts of average guns.

[JimmyHat]

No reason for Jenn not to put together a list of ideas for an alternate exile rule.  Through playtesting we can see if one is better than the other.  Or perhaps meld the two, we shall have to see:)

[special forces]

@Vance:

UK Europe government in exile - version 6 (Germany takes all IPCs, Canada only).

If London is captured by an axis power, the capitol of UK Europe moves to Ottawa, Canada.  When an axis power captures London it collects all of the UK Europe IPCs.  On its next turn, and as long as London is occupied, the UK government in exile will collect income for Canadian territories.  The government in exile will mobilize units only in Canadian industrial complexes.  Because trade with Great Britain ceases while London is occupied by the axis, sea zone 106 ceases to be a convoy raid zone until London is liberated.  At the Collect Income phase of the UK Europe turn following the liberation of London, the government of UK Europe returns to London and income is collected for all UK controlled territories on the Europe map.

I wanted to add that Canada doesn’t trade exclusively with UK, i don’t see why SZ106 would have to be neutralised.

(edit for clarity)

[Guest]

As Jenn suggested, suppose the UK Gov’t in Exile collects for UK territories on the entire Europe map starting the turn after London falls.

If you were to go with that, maybe something could be added on the axis side for when Rome falls.  What if Germany automatically takes over control of all Italian territories and collects income for them starting the turn after when Rome falls?

Would that sort of even things out a bit?  Both sides having a gov’t in exile rule?

[JimmyHat]

@special:

@Vance:

UK Europe government in exile - version 6 (Germany takes all IPCs, Canada only).

If London is captured by an axis power, the capitol of UK Europe moves to Ottawa, Canada.  When an axis power captures London it collects all of the UK Europe IPCs.  On its next turn, and as long as London is occupied, the UK government in exile will collect income for Canadian territories.  The government in exile will mobilize units only in Canadian industrial complexes.  Because trade with Great Britain ceases while London is occupied by the axis, sea zone 106 ceases to be a convoy raid zone until London is liberated.  At the Collect Income phase of the UK Europe turn following the liberation of London, the government of UK Europe returns to London and income is collected for all UK controlled territories on the Europe map.

I wanted to add that Canada doesn’t trade exclusively with UK, i don’t see why SZ106 would have to be neutralised.

(edit for clarity)

Agreed, in fact I thought we were talking about sz109 because resources would not be flowing in from the empire anymore and therefore no need for Germany to protect that convoy zone.  Vance, why do you have 106 as not being a convoy zone?

[JimmyHat]

@Vance:

As Jenn suggested, suppose the UK Gov’t in Exile collects for UK territories on the entire Europe map starting the turn after London falls.

If you were to go with that, maybe something could be added on the axis side for when Rome falls.  What if Germany automatically takes over control of all Italian territories and collects income for them starting the turn after when Rome falls?

Would that sort of even things out a bit?  Both sides having a gov’t in exile rule?

hmmm, now were talking about an ‘exile gov’ rule for each country….I think this should be exclusive to UK, due to their ‘empire’, and it shouldn’t be too powerful because then it has a good chance of upsetting the balance of the game…I do think 7 ipcs seems weak, everyone else has a 10 base.

[Guest]

z106 is where materiel was shipped from Canada to UK during the war.  Those Altlantic convoys were a very one way trade, with full ships going from Canada to Britain; empty ones coming back.  All that would stop when UK falls.

[Guest]

@JimmyHat:

I think this should be exclusive to UK, due to their ‘empire’, and it shouldn’t be too powerful because then it has a good chance of upsetting the balance of the game….I do think 7 ipcs seems weak, everyone else has a 10 base.

I agree.  The Italy thing would be as a counter Jen’s much more ambitious idea.  At some point though, we wouldn’t be playing Axis & Allies anymore, but some other game altogether.

[special forces]

@Vance:

@JimmyHat:

I think this should be exclusive to UK, due to their ‘empire’, and it shouldn’t be too powerful because then it has a good chance of upsetting the balance of the game….I do think 7 ipcs seems weak, everyone else has a 10 base.

I agree.  The Italy thing would be as a counter Jen’s much more ambitious idea.  At some point though, we wouldn’t be playing Axis & Allies anymore, but some other game altogether.

It should definitely stay UK-only, i guess the reason for the Gov in exile is mostly that London can fall so early in the game. As for Italy, that could never be teh case.

As for the idea of giving Canada all UK’s territory, that would result in never having a Sea-Lion again, i think. Big part of the incentive for Axis to do Sea-Lion is to take out 1 Allied power for some time (which has a price since it risks letting Russia to get strong. Not having UK fall  + strong Russia sounds like a very bad deal for germany.

[special forces]

@Vance:

z106 is where materiel was shipped from Canada to UK during the war.  Those Altlantic convoys were a very one trade, with full ships going from Canada to Britain; empty ones coming back.  All that would stop when UK falls.

Mmm, but if so, giving Canada IPC’s extra should be completely out of the question. They should stay weak, just have a little bit of IPC’s to have a bit of defence or to build up some units to sail to the UK after USA liberates it.

Even if the convoy zone stays active, Germany still has to bring over fleet to disrupt it, in a dangerous place (closeby USA forces), chances it will actually happen are particularly small.
… so i guess the convoy zone is not that relevant, but giving extra IPC’s? That is just wrong.

And for defence, they are next to the giant of the game, so even that shouldn’t really be a big issue.