G40 League House Rule project

[gamerman01]

@Karl7:

Gamerman, are the Axis stil rocking ahead on kills?

The Axis had a lot of wins in the last 20 results or so.  Before that, it was almost tied.

Look to the right in the spreadsheet.  Bottom right.

Axis 92
Allies 75

So Axis is significantly ahead right now.

[Karl7]

hmm, Axis are just shy of winning 30% more of the time… not too bad I suppose for balance.

Although, I’ve always wanted it to be the other way around with the Axis the ones pressed to win…

I guess Larry likes the Axis.  Who knew?

[boldfresh]

@Karl7:

hmm, Axis are just shy of winning 30% more of the time… not too bad I suppose for balance.

Although, I’ve always wanted it to be the other way around with the Axis the ones pressed to win…

I guess Larry likes the Axis.  Who knew?

people just don’t know how to play the Allies yet

[Karl7]

Gamerman, who has the most wins as the Allies, we should consult him!

[boldfresh]

probably you karl.

[Karl7]

huh?  really?  I doubt that…. or maybe that explains why I got kicked out of tier 1…  :lol:

[gamerman01]

Jeff has the most wins at 10, but I have the highest winning percentage at 8-1

I’m not seeing the Allied disadvantage, no  :-)

[allweneedislove]

the axis have the advantage. this is shown in that players are bidding for the right to play the axis.

the allied to axis win ratio does not show which side has the advantage. it shows that bids are not high enough.

[gamerman01]

Thanks for weighing in, allweneed

I respectfully disagree that the Axis have the advantage for the reason that people are bidding for the Allies.  That just means that the PERCEPTION is that the Axis have the advantage, and perhaps they do.

Or perhaps a lot of players don’t know how to play the Allies to their potential and the Axis are much more straightforward and harder to stop for inexperienced players.  At least half the league playing field, I think, is pretty inexperienced at playing G40.

Now that said, I agree with you that the 92-75 current record shows that Allied bids are not high enough.  For the time being.  Until we collectively have more experience.

But what do I know.  I haven’t watched any of these games - it takes too much time.

I do know that if you take Eggman out of the equation, the record is 79-68

[gamerman01]

Well, this is why I track Axis vs. Allied play, by player.

Perhaps we have a few players who are just a lot better at playing one side than the other.  Or several players.

Let’s look:

Stalingradski  Axis 4-0  Allies 0-2
Ziggurat        Axis 6-0  Allies 3-4
Wheatbeer    Axis 10-5 Allies 0-2
Snake11eyes Axis 5-2  Allies 3-5
JWW            Axis 5-2  Allies 2-7
Eggman        Axis 0-0  Allies 7-13
Variance      Axis 3-4  Allies 1-6

Most everyone else has a roughly comparable record taking Axis or Allies
I think the answer lies in the answer to this question:

Do the above players’ experiences demonstrate that there is a significant Axis advantage, or are the above players just a lot more effective at playing the Axis than the Allies?  Probably some of both.

I think Eggman would say that the Axis have a big advantage, but he hasn’t played as Axis in league.  If he played 20 games as Axis, then we could talk.

Yes, my guess/opinion is that overall, it’s easier for the relatively inexperienced G40 player to win with the 3 Axis powers.  Playing the Allies in G40 is very different than any previous Axis and Allies challenge/experience.  I agree with Bold that on the whole, players are not playing the Allies as effectively as they are the Axis.

About a month ago, the record between Axis and Allies was almost tied.  Axis have been on a run lately.  We’ll see what happens in the future - it’s interesting.

[Karl7]

Gamerman, maybe you should give us some simple bullet points on what you think good allies play is.  I would like to know…  :lol:

I’d say after going 1-4 with you, you tend to like to do pot shot attacks to disrupt the Axis, wearing them down with little side battles… or maybe that is just how you killed me…

[gamerman01]

I’m not going to give away my game plans - it’s bad enough people can just watch me and copy me  :lol:

You got bullet point #1 though

1. You have got to get your units into the action.  Use the 3 ANZAC fighters, for example.  They’re not doing much good sitting around on an airbase.  A&A players are very protective of their expensive units, from past experience and other games.  You have to start getting over that.  Each ANZAC fighter is roughly equivalent to 1 Japanese infantry that is on the front because of positional value.

2. Scramble on G1 more often.  Not always, necessarily.  Again, players don’t want to exchange fighters with Germany at a less than 1:1 ratio.  I think that’s a missed opportunity.  This is one of the UK’s best chances to help Russia avoid an early demise.  You can often get 2 or more German fighters with 2 UK fighters and 1 French fighter.  But you probably won’t kill a single one if you don’t scramble.  So yes, this might involve letting the Italian fleet go.  But there are other things to do with the UK fleets than slam into the Italians…

3. Think about doing unprovoked attacks on Japan more often.  Especially on round 2.  Again, forward Japanese infantry and transports are very valuable.  Unprovoked on round 2 only costs the USA the extra NO’s one time, and attack on US4 instead of US3 (although this is sometimes prohibitive).  But you get +5 to UK and +5 to ANZAC for NO’s on round 2, you can usually hit the 2 infantry in Siam, and maybe something else especially if the Japanese player is thinking you won’t attack.

4. Win Yunnan.  See point #3, as a UK attack can secure Yunnan on round 2.  If you can keep the Japanese from breaking Yunnan, you can usually beat them, and then you can focus on Europe more.  Extreme J1 dice can gift this to you, or make it very difficult, but with normal dice you can often secure Yunnan (in one form or another) and if Japan can’t land planes in Yunnan and the Chinese are getting the +6, it’s a huge factor.

You’ve been more successful with the Allies than the Axis yourself, Karl.  Maybe you should add some bullet points  :-)

[gamerman01]

Oh yeah, one thing related to #1 and #4

Chinese infantry are not worth nearly as much as Japanese infantry.  This means these are often good attacks to make:

1)  1 Chinese infantry vs. 1 Japanese infantry.  3/8 chance of killing the Japanese infantry, 1/4 chance of outright winning
2)  2 infantry and fighter vs. 3 Japanese units  50/50 battle, but you can retreat.  If you get unlucky you lose the flying tigers, but what good are they if they’re not making a difference?  This is what they were made for - daring missions.  I have destroyed all 3 Japanese units losing 0 or 1 myself, multiple times.

Again, Japanese infantry, especially in strategic spots (not in North China) are extremely valuable because they have so many options and put a lot of pressure on a lot of different places.  Smart Chinese play is a big component of Allied success.

Again, in A&A, power projection and concentration are powerful.  The Axis have all of this at the beginning.  You can reduce a lot of the pressure by taking out forward Japanese infantry and transports here or there, or by taking down a few German fighters.  Because the power of the Germans and Japanese can be focused and projected on so many different targets at once (they are centrally located), the Allies need to poke holes in them wherever they can, and the earlier the better.

[Karl7]

What you say is true.

I’d lend emphasis to No. 4.  Yunnan is like the MOST important territory in the game for Japan.  I know from experience. I foolishly decided to NOT sacrifice a ftr and take Yunnan when the dice went crazy.  Needless to say, it was down hill for Japan very quickly. I think that was a game with Zuk.

I’d add this: Maybe it’s a frustrating part of the game, but the dice have a lot to say on Axis fortunes the first couple turns.  If the Axis kill the first couple rounds, the Allies are going to have a pretty hard uphill battle.  If the dice runaway from the Axis, the game is the allies to lose (assume relatively equal players).  So the allies have to gauge pretty closely how well the Axis do R1,2,3, in terms of how agressive they want to be.

I remember Gamer, you sunk the Italian fleet losing 1 ftr only – that was terrible and really set the Axis back allowing a pretty agressive amount of Allied play and almost total US commitment to Aisa.

[gamerman01]

Lesser men would have quit right away

[gamerman01]

I’m a lot tougher when I’m lucky  :lol:

Everyone’s vulnerable when the dice poop out on them

[allweneedislove]

@Gamerman01:

Well, this is why I track Axis vs. Allied play, by player.

Perhaps we have a few players who are just a lot better at playing one side than the other.  Or several players.

Let’s look:

Stalingradski  Axis 4-0   Allies 0-2
Ziggurat        Axis 6-0  Allies 3-4
Wheatbeer    Axis 10-5 Allies 0-2
Snake11eyes Axis 5-2   Allies 3-5
JWW            Axis 5-2   Allies 2-7
Eggman        Axis 0-0   Allies 7-13
Variance       Axis 3-4   Allies 1-6

Most everyone else has a roughly comparable record taking Axis or Allies
I think the answer lies in the answer to this question:

Do the above players’ experiences demonstrate that there is a significant Axis advantage, or are the above players just a lot more effective at playing the Axis than the Allies?  Probably some of both.

I think Eggman would say that the Axis have a big advantage, but he hasn’t played as Axis in league.  If he played 20 games as Axis, then we could talk.

Yes, my guess/opinion is that overall, it’s easier for the relatively inexperienced G40 player to win with the 3 Axis powers.  Playing the Allies in G40 is very different than any previous Axis and Allies challenge/experience.  I agree with Bold that on the whole, players are not playing the Allies as effectively as they are the Axis.

About a month ago, the record between Axis and Allies was almost tied.  Axis have been on a run lately.  We’ll see what happens in the future - it’s interesting.

excellent breakdown gamerman. nice to see some of the anomalies broken out.

i also liked reading your allied points, but wish you would not put it in this thread to be buried and lost. this should be in its own thread, in the global section for all to see.(i would like to comment on it but dont want to take this thread off topic)

[boldfresh]

just read cow’s playbooks, that’s all you need.  :roll:

[gamerman01]

Thanks, Allweneed

You can certainly copy it and start a discussion thread in G40 so you can comment on it there, if you like
Let me know if you do

[Eqqman]

Wheatbeer (Axis) over Eggman (Allies +9)

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=30391.0