2012 League Discussion

[DarthMaximus]

I tried G40 briefly, but found it to be a bit too much.  Considering my gaming time is limited, I figured I’ll stick to anniversary as long as people still play that.  I also didn’t like the various rule updates of G40.  Alpha 2 or 3 etc.  I like updates/clarifications/balancing but to continue doing them just made me say I’ll wait until a “standard” is determined and then maybe get into it.

[gamerman01]

@Ol’:

I agree! What in the world were they thinking in just limiting the release??? They certainly are not making the insane $400+ it is selling for online now  :roll:

:-) Insane because it’s more than 10X the cost of Spring 1942, but not insane in the sense that that is where supply is meeting demand.  I’m not even willing to sell my copy for $400, and I’m broke.

[gamerman01]

@DarthMaximus:

I tried G40 briefly, but found it to be a bit too much.  Considering my gaming time is limited, I figured I’ll stick to anniversary as long as people still play that.  I also didn’t like the various rule updates of G40.  Alpha 2 or 3 etc.  I like updates/clarifications/balancing but to continue doing them just made me say I’ll wait until a “standard” is determined and then maybe get into it.

EXACTLY

I was really excited about it as P40 (played several games) and then E40 (Global) came out.  It was really exciting to play at first, and I weathered Alpha1 and Alpha2.  But after that, it got to be too much.
A normal G40 turn can take hours, if you’re playing seriously.  Compared to a normal AA50 turn of maybe 10-30 minutes.  (Hours only if you’re in a single elimination late-round tournament game)
This is why AA50 is still the premier Axis and Allies game (at least for individuals, as OBG said).  Global IS a fun team game - I immensely enjoyed a few games of 4 player Global (pre-Alpha2).

Global is not a substitute for AA50 the way AA50 was for Revised, which was for Classic.  It’s a little like comparing 3D chess or 4-way chess to regular chess, I think.

[Cow]

I don’t take an hour to do a turn playing seriously. At first sure because of the rules and everything was new. Now I just automatically know what to do and roll the dice.

japan takes some getting used to so you figure out your buys and stuff. generally speaking Europe going good -> expansion. germany going bad -> rush for VCs and attempt pacific victory around round 8.

[boldfresh]

cow, i can’t tell - do you have ANY idea what you are talking about?

[gamerman01]

Since 1940 and AA50 leagues are going on in the same league area, I think the subject of this thread should be edited to specify that this is AA50 discussion

[Nix]

i just wanna say hello to everyone that have played against me in the past.  And i hope to beat everyone of you this year =)

[DarthMaximus]

@JWW:

2012 League standings to date

Amazing Tyzoq & Yoshi, or should that be Yoshi & Tyzoq? Our top four could be set for the playoffs unless someone can take down DarthMaximus or Gamerman.

| Player | W-L | Pct |
| Tyzoq | 7-0 | 100% |
| Yoshi | 6-0 | 100% |
| NIX | 1-0 | 100% |
| CdnRanger | 1-0 | 100% |
| Darth Maximus | 10 -2 | 83% |
| Gamerman | 5-1 | 83% |
| DizzKneeLand33 | 3-1 | 75% |
| souL | 5-2 | 71% |
| Blood & Guts | 15-9 | 63% |
| JWW | 6-4 | 60% |
| U-505 | 3-3 | 50% |
| BoldFresh | 4-7 | 36% |
| Mojo | 1-2 | 33% |
| Lucky Lindy | 4-9 | 31% |
| djensen | 3-7 | 30% |
| Extra Billy | 3-10 | 23% |
| Amon Sul | 1-4 | 20% |
| Karl7 | 0-1 | 0% |
| Zhukov44 | 0-1 | 0% |
| BattlingMaxo | 0-1 | 0% |
| Gargantua | 0-1 | 0% |
| Cmdr Jenn | 0-1 | 0% |
| cts17 | 0-3 | 0% |
| Botider | 0-3 | 0% |
| Desert Journalist | 0-6 | 0% |

Don’t forget we are potentially doing a “major” league this year.  I expect to get to 14+ games, but I think we said we’d need 4 or more to do a major league playoffs.  I think we will probably get there.  At this point I’d include OBG, but he did leave the site so if we had another 4 I’d have no problem going with that 4 rather than giving an opponent an atuo-bye to “play” OBG in rd 1.

[gamerman01]

I hope there isn’t a major playoff, because that takes 4 top players away from the “regular” playoff, and BOTH playoffs would be diluted.  :|
14 is a lot of games!
Just my 2 cents -  I don’t make the rules of course

[DarthMaximus]

@Gamerman01:

I hope there isn’t a major playoff, because that takes 4 top players away from the “regular” playoff, and BOTH playoffs would be diluted.  :|
14 is a lot of games!
Just my 2 cents -  I don’t make the rules of course

Well, its in the rules so we can’t really change it now.  It may have influenced how people played their season.  We also didn’t put restrictions on it (or a min. win % needed), so we may have players with losing records in the major playoffs. 
However, I disagree that it will dilute the minor league.  They can be considered separate skills.  Its is one thing to be 8-2, it is another to be 16-4.  It is also a reward for those that play a lot of games, which is what we want to encourge.  I don’t want players to get to 9-1 or 8-2 and then stop playing because they are holding out for a playoff spot.  I think someone who goes 16-8 is a very good player, but there is no way that person would get into a playoff with a 8 game minimum.  Too many people will be between the 0-3 loss range, for example a 9-4 person would get the slot over a 16-8.  So why would the 9-4 player play another game and risk a loss that puts them behind the 16-8 player?
I want to discourage that.  Now the 9-4 player can play another game and if the lose still probably qualify for the major league even at 9-5.

All that said, it only applies if we have at least 4 players with 14 games or more.

We always want to encourage games to be played, we also want to give some hope to players that might start off 0-2 or 0-3, maybe hit some tough dice in a couple games.  What incentive would you have to continue playing if you are 1-4 in April?  The past few years you’ve needed 3 losses or less the get into the playoffs.  But with a major league maybe you get to 9-5 and qualify.

I’d certainly be open to tweaks for next year.  JWW and I have already discussed some things.  One thing we are looking at are ways to speed up the post season.  We are crowning champions waaaaay too late.  The intention was to create games the community would “watch” and take notice of.  While some may, it is hard to stay interested if the playoffs are essentially running 9-10+ months.  By the time we have winners the result is obselete because we have a new crop of league players positioning themselves for the current playoffs.

This is a different issue, but just wanted it known that we continue to look for ways to improve the league.

[gamerman01]

Thanks for letting us in on your thoughts, DM

First, the long playoff season.  This could be totally avoided if you apply the same time limits as you have for regular games.  Now I know, you don’t want to force a forfeit, but you’ll think of something.

Zhukov’s maybe been really busy, but I’ve usually posted VERY timely to our game to try and keep it going, but he has had multiple week or two week delays.  I’m not trying to pick on Zhukov - it hasn’t bothered me much although it would have been nice to have been crowned months ago with my first league championship, but I’m just saying if there is no enforcement on time limits on moves then you might continue to get this result.

[gamerman01]

I hear you on the major playoff.  And I totally agree you can’t change the rules on it now.  I never intended to ask for that.  I only meant for future years.

I’m concerned that you get a scenario something like this:

Player 1 is 16-2
Player 2 is 15-9 but isn’t playing anymore
Player 3 is 4-10
Player 4 is 3-11
Player 5 is 3-11

This is actually a very possible scenario for 2012.  Now what you’ve done by having a major playoff is taken Player 1 (which is you!) out of the “real” playoff with the other 3 best players of the year.  This is the dilution I’m talking about.

Basically by having a major playoff, you are diluting the talent in the “minor” playoff by taking some of the best players out.

All that said, I personally don’t get charged up about the playoff, and have actually considered intentionally not qualifying by not playing enough different players this year.  Or if I did qualify, I may decline my playoff spot.
You assume that all players’ motivations are to get into the playoffs, when in fact the opposite may be true.

I think a number of players play in league just to be a part of the standings, and to have an “official” record of their games.  And to follow the same game rules and have moderators, etc.  So if I start off the year with 3 or 4 losses, I’m not discouraged from playing because of the great difficulty of qualifying for the playoffs.  In fact, I would be motivated to play a lot more games so that my record doesn’t look so bad.

What do you think now?

[gamerman01]

One more thing about the major playoff.

What would you think if you end this season 16-2 and your 3 opponents in the major playoff all have records way below .500?  What would most other normal players think if they were in that position?  Wouldn’t you want to be in the “minor” one playing the winning players?  Wouldn’t you rather win the minor over me, Yoshi, and Tyzoq?

[gamerman01]

I’m hoping you don’t have 4 players with 14 games or more (OBG won’t count if he doesn’t come back) so that there is only one playoff, because no, you can’t change the rules now.  I think you should be in the same playoff as everyone else.  If you’re not, I for one will be wondering “what if”!

[Yoshi]

One point with the major league playoff is that you can play it just by giving a few games away to reach the 14 games limit…

I believe a minimum percentage of win should be required to reach it (like 50%, or at least 40%) to avoid that.

[DarthMaximus]

Okay, I see what your saying.  I guess this is sort of a unique scenerio we have yet to encounter.  In the past when we’ve done major/minor we’ve always had players with winning records qualify for both.  Whether it was people at 15-10 or something similar.  Losing OBG was kind of a hit to the major league.

–------------

Oh, and I’m not criticizing you or Zhuk, good AA50 games can take a while.  Heck I just played a rd 1 tourney game with Soul that lasted 7-8 months and only ended b/c some really poor dice.

It’s just sort of the nature of the beast, AA50 games can take a while.

JWW and I have talked about using different scoring systems and perhaps going back to the old ways where the league winner is just the league winner (no playoffs at all), but nothing is set in stone and we were just kicking around ideas.  At the very least we might just drop it down to two players qualify.  But we’re open to other ideas as well.

@Yoshi:

One point with the major league playoff is that you can play it just by giving a few games away to reach the 14 games limit…

I believe a minimum percentage of win should be required to reach it (like 50%, or at least 40%) to avoid that.

That’s an idea.  And something we’d have to consider.

[666]

@Yoshi:

One point with the major league playoff is that you can play it just by giving a few games away to reach the 14 games limit…

My strategy has been revealed!

[DarthMaximus]

League games end on Nov. 1.  Only about 6 weeks to go.  Get them in!

[General_D.Fox]

Couple things Darth:

1. When can we start games that count for the next/upcoming season?

2. Maybe I have been under a rock, but has it been discussed to have a time cap on when a person has to post a move? I was browsing in the tournament forum and some of those games haven’t seen moves posted in what seems forever.

Has anything been discussed (or is it already the case) of maybe forcing a person to move at least within a 72-hour period? (Although I sometimes personally liked Switch’s idea of once every 24 hours, b/c that kept the game moving and impatient people like me from pestering the opponent.  :lol: :-D )

[gamerman01]

Read the first post of the league rules, TDJ, to find the time limit rules - you’ll like what you see