• Buying a G1 bmb and landing 3 ftr in WE means G2 can sink easily the merged SZ8 fleet at the expense of its ftr, which is totally worth it at this point of the game.
    The Allies will have to (partially) merge in SZ2, which is keeping the Americans out of the Atlantic and makes the defence of Norway easy for Germany, something that can have dire consequences for Karelia.

  • '12

    I see the numbers with a 2 sub, 2 bomber, 3 ftr attack against the best the allies can do in Sz8.

    Is this an ‘automatic’ play, that is when Germany has less that that, automatically the Brits build a CV+2 DD in Sz8 and the americans/brits supply 2 fighters and cruiser?

    I’m not sure I follow the partial merge in Sz2, is this due to air threat from Japanese air in WEu?  What turn/build sequence does that involve?

    I would see either (a brit navy build in Sz8 with low German threat) or (a bomber and maybe something else but no navy build on UK1 and a large US fleet build on US1 then a round 2 merge in Sz8 with a UK2 navy build).  This is why for my circle, the faster japanese air gets into Europe, the worse for England.

    But for me, even an early brit navy build in Sz8 round 1 doesn’t bother me much.  Nwy is always going to fall by Us4.  Us fleet build Us1>Sz8 US2>Sz12 Us3>Sz6 Us4 and capture of Nwy for possible US IC if and when Germany gets pinned down enough.

    I like 5 German tanks on G1, no doubt the bomber build does slow down the allied fleet for 1 turn.  The question: is that allied slow down worth more than Germany being able to lean forward quickly on G2 especially if Jap fighters are ready to land where Germany wants to stack.  Works great until Brit land units are in the European theater anyways.


  • @MrMalachiCrunch:

    I like 5 German tanks on G1, no doubt the bomber build does slow down the allied fleet for 1 turn.  The question: is that allied slow down worth more than Germany being able to lean forward quickly on G2 especially if Jap fighters are ready to land where Germany wants to stack.  Works great until Brit land units are in the European theater anyways.

    To bring your posts back to the Japan dilemma, I would probalby do the more agressive Ger buy (armor) together with a solid J1 attack on a stacked bury to put the heat on Russia very fast (Consider skipping SZ52).

    I think I will consider doing a KJF like opening in my next game 3 Russian armor in Cauc R1 a stacked bury - India IC UK1 maybe even a risky UK attack on FIC. And of course a US IC in Sinkiang US1.
    Has anyone ever faced a “proper” KJF opening in 42.

    I guess the best response is for G to be very aggressive on the eastern front - but it should definately give a very different game, with some tough choices for Japan.

  • '12

    I think the moment you see that stack on Bury R1 you do have to go Very aggressive.  Knowing the brits will have to put their india fighter on Bury you put an armour in Egy rather than the art from SEu.  The brits will be diverted from the atlantic and europe at the very least.  If it is full KJF then Germany ought to punish the Russians.  I would love to see a good KJF on PBEM here!


  • @MrMalachiCrunch:

    Knowing the brits will have to put their india fighter on Bury you put an armour in Egy rather than the art from SEu.

    I Almost always bring the armor - I find that extra IPC is well spent for the better odds in these important battles in Africa.

  • '12

    I hear ya on that, can’t bring much to africa so it might as well be the best.  The only draw back is on G2, if you hold the Art back on G1 it should stay in SEu for G2 or else you will have to move a newly built tank or pull from Bal and then you have to get an infantry that has already advanced  rather than one purchased on G1.

    I think if you go tank on G1, best to leave the Art in SEu and build a tank there too as well as at least 1 Inf, maybe 2 just in case of that 2% reason why you want 2 Inf going via TT somewhere.

    Getting back to the thread……A large move into Bry I feel is a mistake unless you are going KJF.  Telegraphing on R1 what your game plan is I feel gives the Axis a slight edge in the argument.


  • @jiman79:

    I think I will consider doing a KJF like opening in my next game 3 Russian armor in Cauc R1 a stacked bury - India IC UK1 maybe even a risky UK attack on FIC. And of course a US IC in Sinkiang US1.
    Has anyone ever faced a “proper” KJF opening in 42.

    I guess the best response is for G to be very aggressive on the eastern front - but it should definately give a very different game, with some tough choices for Japan.

    I started facing something similar on the last game… 6 inf stack on Bury,  UK attack on FIC, Russians moving into Sinkiang, US buy of 2 ACs for the Pacific, UK IC on India.

    Unfortunately for the Axis player, it is impossible to hold that India IC without Russian help at the start. I moved 3 inf, 1 arm to retake FIC, let the Russians have Manchuria and placed Japan in position to hit India with 5 inf, 1 arm and 4 ftrs on J2 (India had only 1 fighter).
    The only chance would be for the Russians to send some of their 4 arm and 3 ftrs for India… but Germany hit WRus on G1 and now could stack WRus on G2, even if the 4 Russian arm are still around… the Allies now need to choose between losing Caucasus or India or both…

  • '12

    3 fighters?  1 existing brit and the 2 Russians?


  • @MrMalachiCrunch:

    3 fighters?  1 existing brit and the 2 Russians?

    3 Russian fighters. I’ve faced thrice this standard buy for Russia on round 1: 1 inf, 1 arm, 1 sub, 1 ftr. I guess they must be really desperate to kill the SZ15 fleet. Only problem is that Germany buys 5 inf, 5 arm and afterwards the Eastern front is theirs.

  • '12

    How often is the 5 Inf, 5 Arm used?  I like it myself, alot.  I would LOVE to see Russia build that especially if they race them away on some complex scheme.  I generally avoid schemes whereby allied nations are locked into specific courses of action unable to take advantage of strange yet beneficial dice rolls.

    I am sure I am not the first to ask, Hobbes, how come you don’t play by forum here?  I have read that you just don’t.  Just curious.


  • Interesting game development Hobbes - thanks for sharing. I do however hope that it is possible to put together a more succesfull KJF attempt than that.

    I don’t get the fighter buy for russia along with a KJF tactic.

    My KJF Russia R1 will be something like this:
    Buy  3 arm 3 inf attack on West Russia and Ukraine (a succesfull strafe on Ukraine would be the optimal outcome).
    Stack bury - perhaps 2 inf to Sinkiang

    With armor in Cauc USSR can work on both fronts and reach India - A russian liberation of India would allow for UK to insert troops there, so it would be an important move if possible.

    If USSR gets diced in the WR-Ukraine attacks it is not too late to switch to a more standard KGF - I would definately not build the India IC if West Russia was lost on G1.


  • Well, now it’s 4 times in a row I’ve seen the Russian 1 inf, 1 arm, 1 sub, 1 ftr buy on GTO. This time there was only the WR attack, Russia didn’t go for Norway or Belo.

    And it’s the 4th time that I respond by crushing West Russia on G1. Afterwards he tries a hopeless KFJ with an India and Sinkiang IC but Japan positions itself and attacks and takes the Sinkiang IC on J2, 3 inf, 1 arm, 5 fighters and 1 bomber against 4 inf and 4 ftrs. Rest of the game, wrap up Russia.

    MrMalachiCrunch, I dislike playing by forum. Prefer the adrenaline of live play :)


  • @Hobbes:

    Well, now it’s 4 times in a row I’ve seen the Russian 1 inf, 1 arm, 1 sub, 1 ftr buy on GTO. This time there was only the WR attack, Russia didn’t go for Norway or Belo.

    And it’s the 4th time that I respond by crushing West Russia on G1. Afterwards he tries a hopeless KFJ with an India and Sinkiang IC but Japan positions itself and attacks and takes the Sinkiang IC on J2, 3 inf, 1 arm, 5 fighters and 1 bomber against 4 inf and 4 ftrs. Rest of the game, wrap up Russia.

    MrMalachiCrunch, I dislike playing by forum. Prefer the adrenaline of live play :)

    The Sinkiang IC is good IF R1 goes well (on W.Russia and on Ukraine), giving the Russians some buffer (and without taking Ukraine the Russians in W.Russia are indeed dead meat…

    If Allies do both US IC and UK IC (i tried that in my last 3 games and i happened to win all 3 of them, admitted 1 was by awesome dice for me, and the other 2 i also had decent dice).

    If you do it, Russia should buy 1 more fighter (or a bomber) and a tank.
    about 3 or 4 Russian INF need to go to Sinkiang right away, fighters need to land within attacking reach of China (not so hard on this small map), preferably Caucasus for the increased defence against amphibious attacks. Siberian Russians move to Buryata, UK must take out the japanese TRP (i prefer sacrificing the indian cruiser for this), AC flees, fighters land in India (here i prefer to retreat from Egypt, inf to Italian East Africa, egypt tank to persia, within reach of Egypt and FIC. Both fighters can still attack Egypt in a next turn). US FIG from Hawai to Australia (next turn land in India).
    Optional: moving the UK figs to W.Africa gives more options in keeping an eye on Egypt.

    My point is: both UK and US IC should be secured for now. With the initial help of Russia (Russian tanks in Kazakh can move into India in 1 turn or attack China if needed.

    I let US follow up with buying tank/fig for Sink. and bomber(s) in USA which can reach Sinkiang in 2 turns via Congo or Australia or Yakut (and if Yakut is safe, they can even do combat in their 2nd turn already)

    Got abit carried away there, sorry :)

    Edit: in one of those games Japan had built also 2 IC’s, but he 1-2-3 advantage of the Allies (US-Russia-UK) turned out deadly and they lost 1 IC pretty fast , due to a small mistake.
    Not saying this is all without risk, but this strat has been kind on me.

    But if you do it, do it turn 1.

  • '12

    Question, why do you have forces in Egy?  Is Germany building additional fleet and staying put in S14?  I can’t see any other reason Germany does not hit Egy with 2 Inf, 2 Tanks and a fighter.  Moreover, I don’t see that as a good reason/strategy.

    Fair enough Hobbes.  I find it hard to put aside interruption free time in large enough blocks.  I try to run the numbers for Germany for their Atlantic wall defense while the girlfriend talks about her day at work…… How long do your typical games go on various websites?  The 5 minute timer sounds a bit harsh but it’s fair in a bi-lateral sense I guess.


  • @MrMalachiCrunch:

    Question, why do you have forces in Egy?  Is Germany building additional fleet and staying put in S14?  I can’t see any other reason Germany does not hit Egy with 2 Inf, 2 Tanks and a fighter.  Moreover, I don’t see that as a good reason/strategy.

    mm, good question. basically because germany didnot attack me,

    The first game they went to take Gibraltar (so no allied planes could land there and protect their fleet, even though, if the german fleet would be out of range if they went to Egypt… i kinda talked them into that, i must admit, haha).
    The other 2 times they bought extra med fleet, so they decided to stay in the same zone, sending some land units to Libia.

    Indeed, if they take out Egypt (also not without risk for them) there won’t be any more retreating for me :)
    Maybe next game they will do that. Until now they didn’t have much succes in africa, i think they might change strategy there. they should.
    If so that is a job for… USA-man!
    My opponents are good players though, but never really focused on Africa.

  • '12

    Hmmm. with a solid set of german attacks, Sz2, Sz15, Sz13, Ukraine and Egy I suspect things would be different.  I cannot justify not putting to work a fleet that then add to and africa units basking in the sun rather than fighting.  I want every one of my pieces doing something, preferably attacking or moving to attack.  I think if Germany is heating up the russian front, not diverting money by fleet purchased and attacking, well…I don’t like german fleet builds so I am biased I guess.


  • @MrMalachiCrunch:

    Fair enough Hobbes.  I find it hard to put aside interruption free time in large enough blocks.  I try to run the numbers for Germany for their Atlantic wall defense while the girlfriend talks about her day at work…… How long do your typical games go on various websites?  The 5 minute timer sounds a bit harsh but it’s fair in a bi-lateral sense I guess.

    Usually around 2 hours


  • Re:  Original Post:

    If Japan skips hitting the Hawaiian Islands fleet, US has a lot of potential attacks on the coast; at the very least, US can use that fighter early in Asia or Europe.

    Re:  KJF:

    There are slow and fast variations of KJF - fast and slow, but neither is particularly effective if the Axis player responds appropriately.

    The slow variation goes something like this - push Japan off the Asian coast with Russia, while US kills the Pacific fleet.  UK supports Russia in Europe.

    The fast variation goes something like this - Sinkiang IC / India IC, then UK ground from India plus UK air, Russian ground, and US fleet all push in on Japan.

    In both variations, what the Allies are planning is pretty clear; the Allies have to move around to set up their KJF plan.  That movement always weakens the Russian-German front, and is sometimes not too effective, as Japan has a lot of flexibility that it can use to punish the Allies.

    SLOW:

    With the slow variation, Japan can use fighters and subs to stall out the US fleet in the Pacific while maintaining the ability to trade coastal territories.  Transports can dump Japanese infantry anywhere along the coast, making it very hard for the Allies to fortify any single territory.

    The Russians run into a major problem in that Russian infantry need to march from Russia-Novosibirsk-China-Sinkiang-coast; a five turn delay.  (Much more favorable is Caucasus-Ukraine or Russia-West Russia-Eastern Front with a one or two turn delay).  How bad is that, really?  It’s like four entire turns worth of production lost just because those infantry aren’t contributing much while they’re marching to the coast.

    In contrast, Japan’s logistics are much EASIER, as the Allies march right into their mouths.  Japan-coast,  a single turn.

    Then add in the fact that it’s very difficult for the Allies to redirect their attacks, while Japan has no such difficulties.  Suppose the Allies decide to push in at Buryatia in the north.  Then Japan could steal a march and push in on India to the south.  After all, Japan can afford to lose the Pacific Coast if it means Japan and Germany combined can smash Caucasus and Russia in the meantime.

    Russia can compensate by building expensive tanks and fighters for better response time, but when considering that they also need to fend the Germans off, it becomes a very nasty battle.

    FAST:

    Japan’s first friend against a fast industrial complex-supported KJF is the dice.  A few bad dice rolls on the part of the Allies can mean the Allies got smoked right away.  Particularly, if UK attacks French Indochina and fails, and the German-UK battle in Anglo-Egypt (both the initial German attack and the UK counter).  But let’s say the dice are not too bad, and that the Sinkiang/IC plan goes off.

    Japan’s second friend is that the typical IC plan calls for a UK IC on India and a US IC on Sinkiang.  Rather than two points of attack AGAINST Japan, those ICs become targets FOR Japan, with the added bonus that trying to fortify both severely weakens Moscow.  The Allies then need to protect three targets; Moscow, India, and Sinkiang.  Germany presses towards Moscow while Japan builds up at French Indochina.  If the Allies continue to fortify India and Sinkiang heavily, Moscow will be in danger.  If the Allies retreat from India or Sinkiang, the Japanese move in and have a ready-built industrial complex ready to use on their next round.  That wouldn’t be so bad if Japan could be counterattacked, but Japan has a lot of room for allowing the Allies to advance.  It doesn’t matter if Japan loses the entire Pacific coast if Moscow falls while Japan keeps its air force and a strong grip on Tokyo.

    All this isn’t to say that KJF is awful, or even “incorrect”.    But I definitely consider KJF to be an uphill battle.  I consider KGF to offer the Allies far better flexibility and concentration of force.

    If the Axis mess up, or have super awful rolls, then sure, KJF.  But otherwise I would stick with KGF.

  • '12

    2 hours versus 1-2 weeks.  Yeah, I can see the allure of that.  I don’t think I would fair well in those time constraints!


  • @MrMalachiCrunch:

    2 hours versus 1-2 weeks.  Yeah, I can see the allure of that.  I don’t think I would fair well in those time constraints!

    2 hours, game ending around round 8. But I’ve had some very tough games lasting up to 5 hours…

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