What happens if you SAVE your money G1?

[JeffM]

@Bischoffshof:

As UK why not just hold your IPC’s round 1 as well? It’s not as if Germany will be able to attack that very next turn. If Germany can wait so can you. You are essentially in the same position as you were on turn 1 just you both have larger amounts of money.

UK can only buy 10 units per round with its major factory… if they held off and did not buy anything the first round and it turned out that Germany was going to go for a Sea Lion, the best the UK could do on turn 2 would be to buy 10 units, which would not be enough to hold off the invasion on Germany’s turn 3.

[JimmyHat]

My concern is that the Axis, Germany in particular hold the initiative.  Now you want to wait and see what UK does so that Germany can respond?  I don’t understand why you would want to cede that control?  The Axis are on the clock, saving money doesn’t seem to be a wise idea unless we are talking about Italy saving for a major fleet purchase I2.

[shadowguidex]

@JimmyHat:

My concern is that the Axis, Germany in particular hold the initiative.  Now you want to wait and see what UK does so that Germany can respond?  I don’t understand why you would want to cede that control?  The Axis are on the clock, saving money doesn’t seem to be a wise idea unless we are talking about Italy saving for a major fleet purchase I2.

Too each their own, you don’t need to use this tactic.  It forfeits a bit of initiative in favor of flexibility.  To me, the unseen unspent IPCs are more worrisome than units on the board.

[Gargantua]

When talking about “Initiative”  think about the bigger picture, in the smaller picture.

Is adding 3 units, with NO attack value (acc 2x transports)  G1 instead of G2 (or a different G2 build)  Really losing the initiative?

It’s one aircraft carrier, because the transports basically don’t matter.  OMG you are on the clock!  Say you are right, where ON AVERAGE, is your acc on G2?  PROBABLY SZ 112!

If you plan an ALL barbarossa, and don’t want to build the ships, this is “a” way to go.  And if your opponent gaffs england and falls for this, even better!  Thank you for input everyone.

[JeffM]

@shadowguidex:

@JimmyHat:

My concern is that the Axis, Germany in particular hold the initiative.  Now you want to wait and see what UK does so that Germany can respond?  I don’t understand why you would want to cede that control?  The Axis are on the clock, saving money doesn’t seem to be a wise idea unless we are talking about Italy saving for a major fleet purchase I2.

Too each their own, you don’t need to use this tactic.  It forfeits a bit of initiative in favor of flexibility.  To me, the unseen unspent IPCs are more worrisome than units on the board.

I completely agree… I don’t think that you really give up anything by holding your cash on G1, and it gives you a lot of options depending on what the UK player does on their first turn.  I am going to try this in my next game.

[shadowguidex]

@Gargantua:

When talking about “Initiative”  think about the bigger picture, in the smaller picture.

Is adding 3 units, with NO attack value (acc 2x transports)  G1 instead of G2 (or a different G2 build)  Really losing the initiative?

It’s one aircraft carrier, because the transports basically don’t matter.  OMG you are on the clock!  Say you are right, where ON AVERAGE, is your acc on G2?  PROBABLY SZ 112!

If you plan an ALL barbarossa, and don’t want to build the ships, this is “a” way to go.  And if your opponent gaffs england and falls for this, even better!  Thank you for input everyone.

Exactly my point.  It’s totally upside.  I’ve always hated the “requirement” that everyone has to build a CV on G1.  The CV is in support of Sealion, but if Sealion isn’t your plan anyway, how do you still get UK to spend on INF…you keep your cards and don’t show them on G1, that’s how.

[suprise attack]

By not spending your $ or very little of it on G1 then the Allies have to guess what your up to and if they guess wrong then you could take advantage of their move. Like what Garg said Leningrad and London would have to make deployments  to cover them selves, in the event that Germany on 2 could do to them (smash either one or both)
  At first I was Skeptical, but after reading this thread I believe it could work out rather well

[Jennifer]

I still say, as England, I am going to blow 2 rounds of money on Homeland Defense and just end the threat of Sea Lion once and for all.

[gsh34]

@Cmdr:

I still say, as England, I am going to blow 2 rounds of money on Homeland Defense and just end the threat of Sea Lion once and for all.

Agreed.  Unless you are one of those UK players that want to bait the Germans into doing Sealion.

[Jennifer]

@gsh34:

@Cmdr:

I still say, as England, I am going to blow 2 rounds of money on Homeland Defense and just end the threat of Sea Lion once and for all.

Agreed.  Unless you are one of those UK players that want to bait the Germans into doing Sealion.

Then I am buying warships off S. Africa and evacuating England…(by that I mean flying away.)

[shadowguidex]

@Cmdr:

I still say, as England, I am going to blow 2 rounds of money on Homeland Defense and just end the threat of Sea Lion once and for all.

Great!  Then I don’t need to waste money on Naval buys, I can just do the TRN or skip Sealion and go right to Barbarossa.

[Omega1759]

@Cmdr:

Shadow, why not move the puny British fleet in SZ 98 out and get it to SZ 39?  (Not the aircraft, the fleet)

I have seen that done and worked surprisingly well for the British…

I find this discussion thread very interesting… Very interesting even!

Looking at the fleet battles, there is really no reason to go crazy about defending 112. Let’s assume for a second that the English fleet is wiped out except for the cruiser in 91 and the destroyer from 109. Although, Normandy will survive… So in that case, why not going for not 1, but 3 sub ($18 IPC)

So UK will have 4 planes attacking with the destroyer and cruiser. Since the attacking destroyer is present, the subs can serve as fodder.

4 planes at 3 + 1 destroyer + 1 cruiser against 1 damaged battleship, 1 cruiser, 3 fighters and 3 subs is not a good bet at all, even with option to retreat… Then, what’s next for UK?! Cannot build fleet, too many subs. Need to build infantry and put fleet out of range of all the subs (if not, that’s crazy). Next turn, one sub gets to work in 109, 1 in 119. 2 more subs get to 118  and 108 (assuming 1 sub survived the naval battles of first round)  and the other one gets to work in (with or without the rest of the fleet).  How will the UK get out of trouble with this? The best they can do is to kill one of these four subs (with the 109), and they will lose the destroyer after the first turn. They can’t build fleet again either so they go land. Then, just starve them off with subs!

And with these 3 subs, how about adding a bomber? If Italy takes gibraltar, the bombers can come in quite handy!

[NoMercy]

I guess it’s a cool wow factor but by Turn 2 German needs to show their cards with this strategy anyway.

1. England still needs to prepare for Sea lion
2. Russia still needs to plan for Barbarossa (really what else can do but prepare until attacked anyway  :-D )

I always thought the CV purchase (only played a few games actually) is to protect the fleet in SZ 112.
Just by having a CV does not require you to do Sea lion; I think you still have a lot of options/routes and at least your fleet is protected for only $16

If you purchase 3 SS on turn 1 for SZ 112 your not doing Sea lion turn 3… Turn 4? (how big is Russia at this point?)

I know people don’t like scripted first turns…but UK is pretty well stuck with 9 Inf UK1 and the other allies are pretty well scripted?
A Germany 1 CV just gives you a lot of options still.

Japan is by far the more interesting Axis with options in my opinion.

[shadowguidex]

Well a CV’s real use is to protect surface ships.  If you plan to go with Barbarossa, then why build the CV?  You can spend G1 and G2 money on land units (10 ART, 5 TANK, 5 MECH) and forget about the CV, while still forcing UK to build 9 INF on UK1 - or alternatively if the UK player doesn’t build the INF, whack him with Sealion.

[NoMercy]

a Cv, 2 trn turn 1 can still transport troops to Norway to Leningrad or just do a decent re-supply later on in the war against Russia.
The CV and any extra naval purchases later can then join up with Italy/keep UK income/ships down.

Again Japan needs to be doing a good job for the Axis to win anyway.

[Jennifer]

You know, 1 Airbase is cheaper than a carrier and provides 3 extra fighters for defense…if we are not putting out fleet that is.  Norway seems like a good place for one.

[Jennifer]

@shadowguidex:

Well a CV’s real use is to protect surface ships.  If you plan to go with Barbarossa, then why build the CV?  You can spend G1 and G2 money on land units (10 ART, 5 TANK, 5 MECH) and forget about the CV, while still forcing UK to build 9 INF on UK1 - or alternatively if the UK player doesn’t build the INF, whack him with Sealion.

Because it’s added defense in SZ 91 allowing you to slow the Americans a bit more before Italy is threatened.

[JeffM]

@shadowguidex:

Well a CV’s real use is to protect surface ships.  If you plan to go with Barbarossa, then why build the CV?  You can spend G1 and G2 money on land units (10 ART, 5 TANK, 5 MECH) and forget about the CV, while still forcing UK to build 9 INF on UK1 - or alternatively if the UK player doesn’t build the INF, whack him with Sealion.

You are right, the advantage to buying the CV, DD, and Transport on G1 is that it forces the UK to buy all inf on its first turn and pulls its resources away from the med… if you hold onto your money G1, the UK STILL Has to do that!  If UK does a defense buy you save the fleet money and go all in on Barbarossa.  If they don’t beef up defense and buy ships, go all in on Sea Lion.

I just do not see any down side to holding the money with Germany on G1.

[Kobu]

I’ve held my money several times. It’s effective if the UK ends up spending foolishly since you can have all you need for Sealion by G3 anyway and they are stuck at 10 buys a turn for England. If they do spend well, you can spend it all on ground troops and planes.

[Omega1759]

Why can’t I do a turn 3 sea lion with 3 subs in the first turn?

12 saved + 68 with germany is 80. That is 10 transports and an extra fighter of turn 2 purchases. Never did the count, by why would that not be enough?

The UK at that time can scramble 3 planes against a battleship, cruiser,  plus say a bomber and a fighter. If the UK builds ships, the subs can take care of it.

@NoMercy:

I guess it’s a cool wow factor but by Turn 2 German needs to show their cards with this strategy anyway.

1. England still needs to prepare for Sea lion
2. Russia still needs to plan for Barbarossa (really what else can do but prepare until attacked anyway  :-D )

I always thought the CV purchase (only played a few games actually) is to protect the fleet in SZ 112.
Just by having a CV does not require you to do Sea lion; I think you still have a lot of options/routes and at least your fleet is protected for only $16

If you purchase 3 SS on turn 1 for SZ 112 your not doing Sea lion turn 3… Turn 4? (how big is Russia at this point?)

I know people don’t like scripted first turns…but UK is pretty well stuck with 9 Inf UK1 and the other allies are pretty well scripted?
A Germany 1 CV just gives you a lot of options still.

Japan is by far the more interesting Axis with options in my opinion.