I jest, of course :-D
What do you do with italy???
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Two great points, JimmyHat.
I always want to build an Italian Carrier, but when the time comes to pull the trigger, I feel like I can’t afford the cost. One of these days I’ll finally do it.
And if you’re playing against an opponent who allows you access into Egypt (I’m never that fortunate), then yes! The Middle East is the direction to go, absolutely.
The I1 Fighter is a replacement for the one I lost defending the fleet in the Taranto battle. 2 Fighters and a Tactical bomber are a great combo stationed in S Italy. They have excellent range.
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I have a few objectives that I like to go for with Italy
Main objectives:
Achieve NOs as soon as possible which means clearing out North Africa then the middle east
Stacking the hell out of Gibraltar. The allies can only get to your home territories and your NO territories by getting into the Med and its gonna be a hell of a lot harder for them to fight in North Africa if they cant bring ships in to help. Im fine with them landing in Morocco
Secondary objectives:
Push south into Africa depriving UK of precious IPCs hopefully reaching as far as south africa. With a small mechanized force and some air power you can make quick work of the UK african troops
Branching out from the Middle East I like to both harass India and provide support to Germany in Southern Russia.
Tertiary objectives:
Once Gibraltar has a fairly big stack I like to branch out and land troops in Brazil, Panama, Mexico or the West indies. Just by forcing the US player to divert resources to this area gives me more time to stack Gibraltar and prepare for defense. This is coupled with helping Germany in the Battle for the Atlantic
My Italy is usually all over the place so the way I achieve this explosive growth is typically by having German planes back up newly taken italian territories with german planes similar to how italy can openers for Germany on the Eastern front
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i agree w Xandax, Italy’s low income tends to hold them back. IMO if Tobruk, Italian Somaliland and Sardiana were given values of 1 and Sicily a value of 2 to raise Italy to 15 IPCs, it would help Italy as it has a few more bucks to spend and help it expand but not too much to unbalance the game
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I agree that Italy really only becomes effective once its economy has reached the 15IPC mark. However, I think Italy is better served getting to this level by attack and occupying Yugoslavia, Greece and Bulgaria. Its 5IPC right on Italy’s doorstep, much eaiser to hold then Africa, and gives Italy bases closer to the SU.
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Clyde - I love the idea of Italian economy in the Balkans, but the German Minor IC/Airbase in Greece causes a lot of trouble for the Allies, so I prefer to let Germany take all of it: Yugoslavia/Balkans on G1, Greece on G2, build Minor IC on G3, build Airbase on G4 - and now you’re in position to help Italy maintain fleet and provide air cover in the Med before the US has had a chance to do much.
I maintain that timing and initiative are two of the most important concepts to master in this game, and the German move/infrastructure into the Balkans creates a thorn the Allies have to deal with. Once it is up and running, Germany can focus solely on units - infrastructure is done.
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what do you do with italy???
Secretly make a deal w/US player. Make horrible attacks w/both navy and ground units. Save all your IPCs from the start (don’t buy anything), so when the US sacks Rome they get all your $ and effectively bring you to the allies “winning” side.
Screw the Krauts :evil:Oh crap, that’s almost how it went down.
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@WILD:
what do you do with italy???
Secretly make a deal w/US player. Make horrible attacks w/both navy and ground units. Save all your IPCs from the start (don’t buy anything), so when the US sacks Rome they get all your $ and effectively bring you to the allies “winning” side.
Screw the Krauts :evil:Oh crap, that’s almost how it went down.
How much real money will the US player give you? If none being on the “winning side” isn’t worth it.
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@Dylan:
How much real money will the US player give you? If none being on the “winning side” isn’t worth it.
I suggest you make your own deal, then we can re-name you “Benedict the Canadian” :-D
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Stalingardski- I see your point, the new rules on scrambling aircraft do make that a powerful. I think having the Italians take south France, at the very least, would help off-set handing the Balkans to Germany. I still think Italy taking Bulgaria is a good idea, they could always use the extra troops if nothing else.
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In my games, Italy is used mainly to defend. If a tanranto raid happens, the Egypt is practically mine since the Brtish NEED to bring the gibralter fighter to the fight, and if the aircraft carriers is destroyed then the fighter is dead anyways. I clear the rest of the British fleet and secure the Med.
Depending on how Italy is doing, I may or may not send the tank and mech from Tobruk with the inf and arty in Libya into tunisa to get the north africa NO.
Its far more important to get the Middle East, to collect the money there, and threathen both Calcutta and Stalingrad.
But once Italy has around 30 IPCs per turn I start sending Infantry and Artillery into Paris. If the Americans and British land it lets me counterattack easily. With Italy defending europe, i let the Germans focus 100% on Russia.
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Wow KillOfreeze, as UK I always attack Tobruk and never do that Taranto raid. The UK odds on Tobruk are sooo much better than that fleet battle, and Africa can be easier to defend if you kill the Italian Army that starts in Africa.
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Anything especial.
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I created a theory with Italy. If Italy captures Ukraine, Russia has lost.
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@Dylan:
I created a theory with Italy. If Italy captures Ukraine, Russia has lost.
…care to elaborate on this? Like…why? Are you referring to an Italian army or Italian can opener? is 3 production really going to matter for Italy when it’s can opener army comprises mech/tank so you can also threaten flank attacks?
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Italy 1 save all 10 IPCS
Capture Tunisia, Gibalter, Alexandria (usually pulled out of,) South France, Kenya, Greece and sink British and French ships using your navy and airforce. Italy collects 36 with NOS. Then buy 6 Tanks roll for the Ukraine. Once you’ve captured that you can prepare defense at home and you can mobilize right in Russia (keep making tanks.) Then keep on mobilizing mainly tanks to Ukraine. Then you should capture Egypt soon then your planes can be more used to attack Stalingrad along with your tanks and if not take it, Germany will kill it.
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@Dylan:
Italy 1 save all 10 IPCS
Capture Tunisia, Gibalter, Alexandria (usually pulled out of,) South France, Kenya, Greece and sink British and French ships using your navy and airforce. Italy collects 36 with NOS. Then buy 6 Tanks roll for the Ukraine. Once you’ve captured that you can prepare defense at home and you can mobilize right in Russia (keep making tanks.) Then keep on mobilizing mainly tanks to Ukraine. Then you should capture Egypt soon then your planes can be more used to attack Stalingrad along with your tanks and if not take it, Germany will kill it.
Great plan, however you are a couple of bad rolls away from totally screwing the axis cause.
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@Dylan:
Italy 1 save all 10 IPCS
Capture Tunisia, Gibalter, Alexandria (usually pulled out of,) South France, Kenya, Greece and sink British and French ships using your navy and airforce. Italy collects 36 with NOS. Then buy 6 Tanks roll for the Ukraine. Once you’ve captured that you can prepare defense at home and you can mobilize right in Russia (keep making tanks.) Then keep on mobilizing mainly tanks to Ukraine. Then you should capture Egypt soon then your planes can be more used to attack Stalingrad along with your tanks and if not take it, Germany will kill it.
Great plan, however you are a couple of bad rolls away from totally screwing the axis cause.
Use the force and have the dice rolls, roll on what you want.
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See, this is always the problem with these games. You can come up with a great idea, and great over-arching stratgey, and it will look unbeatable. The problem is these plans always fall apart on the specifics. Yeah, you could try to play to the averages, maxamizing you attacks, and increasing your odds for success. However it will always come down to the dice, and alady luck can be a fickel mistress. I really think it makes planning anything beyond the first 2 turns a total acedemic and hypothetical pursuit. There are just to many variables to account for, any number of ways a seemingly sound stratgey and come undone.
I like these forums because you can extrapolate out to greater degree, everyone offering their counter points acting as the variables I mentioned before. To me though, the dice can never be trusted, and therefore detailed planning is beyond the first turn is all speculative
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I agree. In warfare, you make a plan and stick to it. Almost all variables are known values, from our fighting spirit to the enemies and even including weather. (SARCASM)
But yeah, you can try and have a plan, but being able to adapt that plan to the current conditions is where the actual strategy for the game comes from. The dice represent the randomness of war, quite nicely I think. I would be willing to move to D8’s or D10s for more variation tho.
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@frontovik,
I really don’t know how your games go, I rarely see more then a single fighter in Egypt. Usually, as Jimmy said, Germany is threatening London(well said as always jimmy :-) ) so Britian is loathe to spend IPC’s in Africa, usually husbanding it’s resources for a major defense until America can get there or the threat to London evaporates. So taking Cairo isnt that much of a stretch for Italy if Germany is being played well.As for taking the territories in the Balkans, I think it’s better for Italy to have an economy that is easier for it to defend. Taking large tracks of Africa is good, but one major naval push by an allied player and Italy will be cut off from this income. Not that an allied player couldn’t convoy raid the Balkans, but it would be much more difficult. Italy can defend the Balkans more readily then Africa, not having to transport troops there across a potentially hostile Med.
With this secured, Italy can send reinforcments to the eastern front and “can opener” for Germany.2 or 3 indian fighters, plus leftovers from taranto do the trick
yeah, sealion can’t be stopped
even with all fighters. as germany i’d attack it round 4 then, making all that extra defense quite useless (figs for inf?) and giving italy free hand in africa…
tell me if i’m wrong, cause imo this is best thing to do as allies.
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