@Kreuzfeld said in Why is Global better than Revised?:
@SS-GEN It is a very good game. At least 40% of the rules are relating to optional units. Most people play with most optional units, but a lot of people play the vanilla version.
:+1: :+1: :+1:
Convoy Raiding - MUCH better - Than Strategic Bombing
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Just saying…
Axis, OR Allies, Convoy raiding is one of the best ways to win the game (Economically).
Axis uses it’s preturns before american war involvement to get subs off the coast of Africa / interdict Britain and Archangelsk NO.
Allies can later sack the med hard, or normandy/norway.
Not only do you interdict, but your opponent has to build destroyers to attack you. Something no one wants to build. Generally the subs at LEAST pay for themselves, if not outpay their cost in interdiction of the enemy.
Living to fight another day - is the name of the game.
Thoughts?
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I have always found it hard to interdict Britain with German submarines.Maybe I have not made it a priority but it seems ineffective in our games.
In Axis and Allies it is much easier to invade Great Britain than interdict it with submarines.
In the pacific the submarines are only effective once the allies have naval supremecy. And once you have that surface ships can raid.
My two cents….
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Unfortunatly subs do not move 7 steps and can pass over land, then they truly would own :)
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REDJAC
I have to know, do you build any subs?
I often seem to be able to interdict the british, and with excellent precision. The threat of sea-lion usually prevents any destroyer builds, and you bankrupt them.
Granted, I am an advocate for ALWAYS using the German -3 sub interdiction rule, a great game balancer…
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Just saying…
Axis, OR Allies, Convoy raiding is one of the best ways to win the game (Economically).
Axis uses it’s preturns before american war involvement to get subs off the coast of Africa / interdict Britain and Archangelsk NO.
Allies can later sack the med hard, or normandy/norway.
Not only do you interdict, but your opponent has to build destroyers to attack you. Something no one wants to build. Generally the subs at LEAST pay for themselves, if not outpay their cost in interdiction of the enemy.
Living to fight another day - is the name of the game.
Thoughts?
I have recently bought into this 100%
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I usually build the 1 AC and 2 TR on G1 followed by all transports on G2 if I plan to do Sea Lion. No real need for subs as I plan to invade Great Britain.
If I am hedging my bets and may attack Russia around G3 or G4, I build either 1 AC and 2 TR to threaten Sea Lion and use the TR to reinforce Norway and Finland for the attack on Russia later on or 1 AC (to protect the fleet) and 1 DR and 1 SUB to interdict England with. I may build submarines to attack any Allied Invasion Fleet that may form to attack Gibraltar or Normandy.
One game I bought 5 submarines on G1. I bought a few more on G2 and G3. The plan was to recreate the great German Submarine Campaign from history. It did not work out so well. The British player attacked my submarines one by one. If I placed them in a group one destroyer and few planes killed them all. He can only lose one destroyer as submarines cannot hit aircraft. When they were placed alone he killed them alone. I could not scramble to protect any of the submarines. If I attacked his destroyer off the coast of England he could always scramble aircraft to protect the destroyer. After a while I could not keep it up. The first few turns the German can use Luftwaffe to prevent the scrambling by covering the Sea Zone. But in my case, I found I needed the airplanes in Russia and in the Atlantic and I did not have enough. The British player put all of his money in destroyers and aircraft. He built his destroyers in Canada and then sailed them over to attack submarines off England. The Americans killed the other ones in the South Atlantic.
I am not saying it cannot work but I have yet to see the German submarine campaign be decisive. Likewise in the pacific I have seen submarines combined with a surface fleet to destroy the other side. But I have never seen convoy raiding work where the Allies did not already have naval supremacy.
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If you kill the transport DD outside canada and got 2 subs alive then they cant build just one destroyer up there. Then if you got that scenario one can try parts of your strategy, if you dont meet this requirement you select another option. Germany was a free country at that time…
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as Russia i always try to get red October into sz 125 and convoy Norway so the soviets get a little more income.
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Wrath, Gargantua,
I admit I may have been playing it wrong. I usually use the German submarines to attack the British Fleet on G1 and take them as losses in the first round. The only submarine left is the one that can attack the Canadian Coastline and try to kill the transport and destroyer. It often does not survive the attack.
The problem is that the United Kingdom starts with 3 destroyers in the Atlantic and it is hard to get all 3 on G1. One is off Canada (two german submarines can attack it) and one is near Dover where german airplanes can attack it but one is just west of England where it is hard to get at. This surviving destroyer usually goes to kill the two german submarines off the Canadian coastline on UK 1. This may or may not take a plane away from England depending on how aggresive the UK player is. From then on the British destroyers attack the submarine without mercy.
I need to sit down and plan out an attack based on convoy raiding for the Axis.
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In a recent game I played, Germany did SBR AND interdiction. London’s economy went down the toilet!!! Eventually I still won, but only after 2 days of nonstop play. America, Calcutta, and Australia were my main achievers.
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If I were to deploy a sub fest on UK I think I would head to the southern tip of Africa w/4-5 subs (8 IPCs w/convoy). UK would have to start building dd’s in S Africa, then they wouldn’t be building as many inf in England (Sea lion), ground units in S Africa, or rebuilding their navy in Canada. I think this may have been what Gargantua had in mind. I like to try to keep a German sub in sz 125 if I can (once at war w/Russia), but it is very hard to keep subs alive in the N Atlantic unless you have total air supremacy, and the whole UK navy is gone. You can do it for a short time, but eventually I think you lose that battle, especially when US gets going. Make them chase you around the horn, could be fun, or at least a distraction.
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i dont know…… as japan, if you buy sh*tloads of bombers, you can take out india from siam…
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You can also convoy India (sz 39) for 3 IPCs, and you don’t have to risk your bmrs to AA. UK can rarely do anything against your navy, only block it out temporarily.
But yeah, why limit yourself to either SBR, or convoy (subs), do them both. To me crippling the enemies econ is a big help, but both SBR & convoy can be risky in their own right. W/subs & bmrs combo you always have the option to go offensive instead of econ.
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Does anyone SBR UK w/Germany (starting G2) after you buzz the UK navy (G1) if you plan to SL (even if you don’t SL, just want to shut down their econ to help Italy). We already know we can keep the English from getting off the Island for a while (no navy). You can buy a 2nd bmr G1 (2 more G3), and you start w/quite a few tacs (bomb bases, just to get tacs into the dog fight), and a bunch of ftrs for escorts. You could very easily over power the RAF G2-G3, and they might not even send up interceptors. If they do send up interceptors you have a lot of 1’s firing at them w/entire Luftwaffe in the dog fight. I know it could go horribly wrong, but it works both ways. The way I see it if you lose a couple planes, but manage to max out their major IC & bases it would be worth it. Your bmrs will also come in very handy later when you need to take out more allied naval units.
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idk…… you usually need those planes to fight russia, and like you said, britan wont be doing many landings anyway…
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