G40 Tourney Discussion/question(s)
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@Cmdr:
Any dmg shuts down the facility until the facility is repaired. (So no more sitting there with 7 dmg on your Major Complex and building 3 units a round.)
Please could you point out, in Larry’s page where you see such rule? I couldn’t find anything regarding that you have to have 0 DMG on Major IC in order to produce units.
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Almost all those changes seem to be advantage to the Allies. The only trade off is a possible sooner fall of India due to SBR? Axis can be hurt by SBR too. Axis get no additional NOs but for the round 7 or 8 taking of Volgograd? The Axis get one concession of not having to take 2 German fighters to So. Italy… that’s it? Did Japan get any additional advatage at all?
I don’t see, with what you are listing as the changes, how Alpha 3 is any more balanced than Alpha 2 as the Allies are getting nearly all the benefits of the change. Sea Lion, which was an advatange to the Axis, is now effectively removed and they have nearly nothing in exchange.
I totally agree with you.
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@Cmdr:
I don’t think BBB noticed that the tactical bomber in Italy is now a Strategic bomber.
For instance, in Alpha 2 you can bring untold number of tactical bombers to “bomb a base” and use them as fodder to protect your strategic bombers from AA Guns over factories.
1. I did notice, didn’t changed my point of view.
2. Really? Please could you refer me where you see this, because when I read Larry’s page I see :
For each “1” rolled, a bomber of the attacker’s choice is immediately removed.
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@Cmdr:
Any dmg shuts down the facility until the facility is repaired. (So no more sitting there with 7 dmg on your Major Complex and building 3 units a round.)
Please could you point out, in Larry’s page where you see such rule? I couldn’t find anything regarding that you have to have 0 DMG on Major IC in order to produce units.
Yes, page 1:
The target is considered inoperable if it receives any hits. It can be repaired by paying 1 IPC for the removal of each chip. This is done during the players next Purchase & Repair phase 1.
The maximum damage a major IC can receive is 20 damage markers. Minor ICs and bases can’t receive more than 6 damage markers each.Any damage to Major Complexes, Minor Complexes, Naval Bases and/or Air Bases shut down the facility unless repaired to 0 Damage. He has since added a second option for Major Complexes, but has added the “being considered” disclaimer. If that becomes official, it is official.
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2. Really? Please could you refer me where you see this, because when I read Larry’s page I see :
For each “1” rolled, a bomber of the attacker’s choice is immediately removed.
“ATTACKER’S CHOICE” you quoted it yourself. A tactical bomber is a bomber.
So if you go in with 3 escort fighters, bring 8 tactical bombers to bomb the Naval Base and Air Base in London and 2 strategic bombers to hit the Major Complex, then during the air battle, you can lose all the tactical bombers “insulating” your strategic bombers from Interceptor fire.
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Almost all those changes seem to be advantage to the Allies. The only trade off is a possible sooner fall of India due to SBR? Axis can be hurt by SBR too. Axis get no additional NOs but for the round 7 or 8 taking of Volgograd? The Axis get one concession of not having to take 2 German fighters to So. Italy… that’s it? Did Japan get any additional advatage at all?
I don’t see, with what you are listing as the changes, how Alpha 3 is any more balanced than Alpha 2 as the Allies are getting nearly all the benefits of the change. Sea Lion, which was an advatange to the Axis, is now effectively removed and they have nearly nothing in exchange.
I totally agree with you.
Japan’s “advantage” (in quotes because I don’t see it as such) is an NO change so they can pick up any 5 Pacific islands with no value for an NO. Of course, that means you have to PROTECT them and it means you have to send transports out to GET them, but Larry thinks this is an advantage and since he makes the rules….
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Page 5:
Larry is considering limiting Major Complexes to a maximum of 12 Damage under the new bombing rules (any damage turns off the complex.)
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So we are not going into round 2 until around Halloween, right? I assume we will do a new round of bidding?
Also, I have no objection with using alpha 3 or this new SBR rule in round 2, although in my opinion it favors the allies even more than alpha 2.
I have to say, all these changes (some if which are improvements) I don’t think fundamentally alter the basic imbalance with the game, which favors the allies. The ONLY change I think that would considerably rebalance the game would be to push out the time limit of when the USSR and US can enter the war, say to round 5 and 6 respectively. After all, the USSR wasn’t going to be ready to attack until 42, and the likelyhood of the US entering the war at all was contingent on Axis provocation and not just crossing some made up time limit.
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@Cmdr:
@Cmdr:
Any dmg shuts down the facility until the facility is repaired. (So no more sitting there with 7 dmg on your Major Complex and building 3 units a round.)
Please could you point out, in Larry’s page where you see such rule? I couldn’t find anything regarding that you have to have 0 DMG on Major IC in order to produce units.
Yes, page 1:
The target is considered inoperable if it receives any hits. It can be repaired by paying 1 IPC for the removal of each chip. This is done during the players next Purchase & Repair phase 1.
The maximum damage a major IC can receive is 20 damage markers. Minor ICs and bases can’t receive more than 6 damage markers each.Any damage to Major Complexes, Minor Complexes, Naval Bases and/or Air Bases shut down the facility unless repaired to 0 Damage. He has since added a second option for Major Complexes, but has added the “being considered” disclaimer. If that becomes official, it is official.
Sorry, I don’t see what you say in that page : http://harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=6149&sid=e72b40b4cde63e93f165dfa6eb16b97d
So I guess it’s another
Because I should never have discussed proposed changes before they were officially added, so it was my mistake to even introduce them.
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Jenn, Jenn, Jenn… you first talk about AA Gun, then about interceptors… not easy to follow. Is it a real rule of Alpha 3 you’re talkking about now, or another of your wish list?
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Could you read them rules, please BBB? Because you are confusing the hell out of people by making unqualified claims and throwing clear rules into doubt.
SBR
Air Battle.
All escorts and bombers (Strategic & Tactical) fires @ 1
Jets fires @ 2Generated casualties are placed behind the casualty line and will return fire before being eliminated.
Interceptors. fires @ 1
Jet interceptors fires @ 2All casualties, both sides, are removed.
Surviving escorts retreat.Bombing Run
Bombers are assigned to targets.
Strategic bombers can be assigned to any target (IC’s, naval bases. airbase).
Tactical bombers can be assigned only to naval bases and airbases.Each targeted facility fires @ 1, each can fire one time at each bomber that is attacking it.
All casualties at both stages of the raid are chosen by the owners of the units involved.Bombs Away
Strategic bombers roll a 1d6+2
Tactical bombers roll a 1d6Damage Report
The damage to the target (hits) is equal to the total number rolled on the die/dice. Place 1 gray chip (damage marker) under the target for each hit scored.
Option #1The target is considered inoperable if it receives any hits. It can be repaired by paying 1 IPC for the removal of each chip. This is done during the players next Purchase & Repair phase 1.
The maximum damage a major IC can receive is 20 damage markers. Minor ICs and bases can’t receive more than 6 damage markers each.http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=6491
I don’t think it gets much clearer than that. I understand you are having issues finding it since you are in a defunct thread. He started new ones for ISSUES to be fixed, SBR questions and CONVOY questions. Those are the only three “active” threads atm.
Anyway, yes, it does not matter (currently) if you have 1 dmg on a facility, if you don’t repair it, you cannot use it at all. It applies to Naval Bases, Air Bases, Minor Factories and Major Factories. There’s no doubt in his intent, the doubt is only in the issue of balance.
To clarify (and it has been clarified, but to save you time going through pages of posts): 7 Damage to a Major Factory requires 7 repair to use the factory AT ALL. You cannot just repair enough to place your builds, you either fix it entirely, or it is out of commission.
Convoys: All warships and planes IN THE SPECIFIC CONVOY SEA ZONE must attack convoys. For each “hit” one damage is taken. You “hit” with a three or less. (ie, a 1, 2 or 3.) Submarines fire two shots, aircraft carriers fire zero shots. Any fighters or tactical bombers that happen to be on aircraft carriers that are in enemy convoy zones may also roll to see if they do convoy damage.
Dog Fighting Rules:
Interceptors, Bombers and Escorts all fire at 1. All hits are removed.
AA Guns fire at 1 for each bomber attacking. All hits are removed.
Tactical Bombers do 1d6 damage to their Air/Naval Base.
Strategic Bombers do 1d6+2 damage to their Air/Naval Base or Minor/Major Complex.It’s really simple. There’s no 2’s or things being killed before it can return fire, or anything. It’s a straight up dogfight now.
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http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=25073.new#new
There is a copy paste of the new SBR rules and new Convoy Rules. Last two posts respectively.
The first three posts are a copy of all Alpha 3 core rules to include changes to technology, game board set up, etc, etc, etc. Basically, all the stuff he posted weeks ago.
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Well, you don’t have an history that gives credibility and having to look at multiple pages/sites is not my defintion of a clear set of rules.
Anyway, Alpha 3 not for me… have fun.
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2 Votes against, 2 votes for.
(It’s not all that hard to find the rules, I put them all in one thread for you with links to Larry’s actual posts on his page. If Larry does not have any credibility for you, then maybe you need to go play Risk or Chess, he is the game creator after all.)
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So Alpha 3 is still being tinkered with?
I’m out as well.
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So Alpha 3 is still being tinkered with?
I’m out as well.
No idea if it is being tinkered with.
Almost every response from Larry now is “bite me” so maybe he’s done?
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Actually, I’m just out.
Alpha 2 may as well be buried with the dinosaurs, and Alpha 3 just isn’t ready.
If I vote, then it is for OOB with a bid. It is still technically the official rule set.
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Seems like since this is an A2 tournament and A3 is still being updated, see the green dates some September some October, I say save alpha 3 for a raining day, maybe next year in fact. Personally, I’m not sure I even want to play A3 for fun, its so fundamentally changed, that its taking the simple cool things like convoy raiding and making them work…no predictability, more dicey then A2 as a result. The NO’s are changed, the Neutrals are tinkered with, SBR is messed with. I prefer a game that is less dice as close to chess as possible but a little variability is fine. This is just getting to bogged down, and quite frankly too much bookkeeping. Trying to figure out your opponents reactions just adds more time to each turn face to face suffers greatly, forum play is painstaking now with all the extra typing, the extra delays due to turn order changes, (France should be moved to after USSR imo for easy posting).
In short, I vote A2.
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I vote A3.
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