G40 Tourney Discussion/question(s)

[suprise attack]

Please post the results of the first round of combat I find it interesting to see who advances to the winners bracket and who takes on who in the redemption/consolation bracket
            Tanks a bunch!!!

[Jennifer]

@suprise:

Please post the results of the first round of combat I find it interesting to see who advances to the winners bracket and who takes on who in the redemption/consolation bracket
             Tanks a bunch!!!

News from the Front page has a copy of who won and who lost.  Winners are in Green, Losers in Red finished games in Blue.

[jim010]

I will not be participating in the redemption round.

[fighter pilot 48]

game #5 Ol’ Blood&Guts concedes to Fighter Pilot 48 due to work schedule

G40_OBG_vs_FP48_03aGer.AAM

[dutchmand]

DutchmanD (Axis -6) over Tyzok (Allies).  Allies concede following combat round of US6.

06Dus - pre NonCom and Mobe.AAM

[Jennifer]

“News from the Front” updated with latest results.

Clarification:

Blue text means the game is over.
Green text reveals the winner.
Red text reveals the loser.

Whether or not there is a redemption bracket is unknown, having a few games end due to real life and some losers having disheartened feelings mentioning to me (in PM) that they might not be interested in a consolation round.

So far, of the games finished, only one game with a negative bid resulted in an Axis win.  4 Bids of zero or negative resulted in Allied wins.  3 Bids of positive values have resulted in Axis wins and no bids of positive values have resulted in Allied victories, so far.  We have 5 games out standing, so about 67% of games have been completed so far.

At 80% completion or 90% completion of round 1, I am considering having round 2 start (assuming your opponent is not still embroiled in a game.)  My best guess?  Somewhere around Halloween we should have round 2 starting.  That is just a guess based on when the tournament started and how many round 1 games are complete so far.

[Jennifer]

We need to make a decision if we want to have Alpha 3 for the second round of combat, or Alpha 2.

If there is strong support for a change to Alpha 3, but not unanimous support from the victors of round 1, I will allow the players to make a decision with their opponents as to which version to play.  If the two, specific, players choose to go to Alpha 3, then they may do so, if they cannot decide which version or decide to play Alpha 2, then it will be alpha 2.

If there is no support for Alpha 3, I’ll drop the issue.

I would like to point out that there is currently a 90% win rate with the allies using the Alpha 2 rules.  Extrapolate on that as you wish.  It could be that the better player always got the allies except in one instance, or that players over estimated the power of the axis and crippled themselves by not bidding enough or removing too many units, or there could be an inherent balance issue. (Although, it’s my personal belief that Alpha 3 is even more tilted in favor of the allies than alpha 2.)

[jim010]

If round 2 is the third version, I’ll stay.

[BigBadBruce]

I’ll never play Alpha 3, it’s wrong… not as much as OOB tho.
Alpha 2 is, by far, the most balanced game (of AAG40 I mean). I say we should stick to Alpha2.

As proof of this :
1. Bids were from negative (!) to +11 (if it takes only 6to11 IPC worth of units to “fully” balance the game, it’s not much!!)
2. Out of 10 round 1 games so far, 4 won with Axis, 6 by allies (where that 90% come from???)
3. In the 6 allies victory, 3 were won by very quick surrender of axis.

Bottom line, as I always said, Alpha 2 is fairly balanced (like 60-40%) and I challenged anyway who says otherwise.

[Jennifer]

@jim010:

If round 2 is the third version, I’ll stay.

I can see this argument as a valid one.  Alpha 3 is the most current incarnation of the rules and it seems funny to play by a old set for whatever reason.

I can see the counter argument as a valid one as well.  Alpha 2 is what we started with, Alpha 3 has at least one major change: AA Guns, and a moderate one (Turn order change).  Otherwise, many of the changes were already included as house rules for the tournament. (AA Guns worth 5, German submarines do 3 dmg, etc.)

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In tournament, yes, it is 4 Axis wins vs 6 Axis losses.  I got my overall statistic screwed up with my tournament one, sorry.  (Over all, of the games on the boards here and abroad, the allies are about 90% wins in Alpha 2.  Of course, players who don’t play at AA.org are just inferior by nature of their cowardace. Yes, it is an elitest attitude, but we are leet!)  Anyway…

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We are going to have to add in a destroyer in SZ 99 to block England from just raping the Italians as a house rule.  Larry is almost certianly putting one in (or switching a cruiser in SZ 98 to Australian).  He’s just trying to figure out if it will destabilize the Med.  Keep in mind, with the AA Gun changes, England does not have to turtle anymore.

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As for your challenge, BBB, you are afriad to continue our game!  How can you challenge anyone?  You’ve been dragging your heels and grasping for straws for days now!  Of course, you did screw up the map (saying you did it on purpose, I think it was a mistake) leading too a little issue which, instead of just taking the original solution, you dragged out for over a day to delay your own game so you didn’t have to do Italy and watch as you went down in the fires of my fighter pilots.

Yea, that’s right, I’m sh*t talkin you.  Throw some dice!

(Yes, Alpha 2 is the most balanced of the four versions in my mind.  But Alpha 3 is the most fun of the four versions.)

[jim010]

As alpha2 is now superceded by alpha3, I don’t see a point in playing it, regardless of balance issues.

[BigBadBruce]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

You’re so dishonnest Jenn. Say the plain truth for once.

1. You quit the first game we played. It was to prove your so called All PAC US (as you claim Alpha2 broken) strat was wrong. I was right (again).

2. I took over someone who gave up in your tourney game. Now I’m turning the odds, so you bring your own rules as you see the game slipping. Besides, how can you consider to win twice with the same game (which I wasn’t starting player BTW)

3. You were suppose to let me know when you can afford a rematch. You never called…

4. I’ll start a new game Alpha2 against you ANYTIME! Eventhought I hate playing with you because there is an issue on EVERY turn you play. In fact I have more issue with you alone than all my games together (wich close to be none, since I’m easy going). You twist rules to fit you so often… I have no fun at all.

[BigBadBruce]

@jim010:

As alpha2 is now superceded by alpha3, I don’t see a point in playing it, regardless of balance issues.

The point is Allies will win… not as bad as OOB tho, but what’s the point to plain a game if both players doesn’t have a chance to win? Specially in a tourney.

[Jennifer]

@BigBadBruce:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

You’re so dishonnest Jenn. Say the plain truth for once.

1. You quit the first game we played. It was to prove your so called All PAC US (as you claim Alpha2 broken) strat was wrong. I was right (again).
We’re not talking previous games, I’m taunting you about dragging your feet in this one.  You said you could turn it around, you have so far failed to do so, but you are trying valiantly.
2. I took over someone who gave up in your tourney game. Now I’m turning the odds, so you bring your own rules as you see the game slipping. Besides, how can you consider to win twice with the same game (which I wasn’t starting player BTW)
He felt that the game was over.  I agree with you it was early, but neither of us were him.  I don’t think you have the skills to turn it around, but you are more than welcome to try.  However, if you want to try, I suggest you doing Italy’s turn because I can’t get to France until then.
3. You were suppose to let me know when you can afford a rematch. You never called…
We were able to continue because that game slot in my everyday life was already open.  Since there is now Alpha 3 and I dont intend to ever play more Alpha 2s (and my pac strat was undefeated and will remain so I guess since you cant do it in A3 due to the loss of income there) I guess it’s moot.  Maybe we can collaberate on an alpha 3 version one day?  Course, in Alpha 3, I’m usally happy to have the Australians spank the Japanese a little.
4. I’ll start a new game Alpha2 against you ANYTIME! Eventhought I hate playing with you because there is an issue on EVERY turn you play. In fact I have more issue with you alone than all my games together (wich close to be none, since I’m easy going). You twist rules to fit you so often… I have no fun at all.
Says the guy who committed an illegal act and then, when I trusted him and went with it, tried to call me a cheater for it.  You’ve yet to have a full round without a mistake, I had a mistake landing planes (fine that was easy to fix because I left them over newly taken land, and miscollected for India and it was caught before you got to Italy, since you STILL have not gotten to Italy.  You attacked a sea zone and never removed the transports there.  You moved MY units off the island and into the water.  Now I have to go back through and micro manage each of your turns to see what else you might have done wrong (by wrong, I mean in clear and direct violation of the rules.)  Or you can set aside your petty vendetta and get back to the tournament continuation game.

[Jennifer]

@BigBadBruce:

@jim010:

As alpha2 is now superceded by alpha3, I don’t see a point in playing it, regardless of balance issues.

The point is Allies will win… not as bad as OOB tho, but what’s the point to plain a game if both players doesn’t have a chance to win? Specially in a tourney.

Agreed.  Which is why any alpha 3 game would have to go with either the cruiser swap that Larry is considering or the blocking Destroyer that Larry is considering.  If we go with the destroyer, then (as I told Larry) it should be German so as not to increase the number of Italian units that can be used to attack.  Since it’s there specifically to prevent England from slaughtering the Italians, it probably wont be moved on round 1 anyway.

And yes, the allies seem to win an inordinately high number of games, even in Alpha 2. (but no where near as bad as OOB.)

[BigBadBruce]

Just placing a DD won’t do much IMO. (I guess it would be placed a z96 or z94)
Why?
Because you can destroy it with planes (3 available)… still giving the option for Royal Navy to gather at z92, with attacking planes joining them in NCM.

Besides, in alpha 3 the lost of a plane this way is even less important since England can afford to send planes aways to replace a lost (destroying DD in z92).

OOB : Axis doesn’s stand a chance. I’m posisive to win 100% games with Allies.
Alpha2 : Fairly balanced. I give Axis 40% chance to win, but they most succeed Sea Lion. With a failed Sea Lion (or not attempted at all) I doubt Axis can win.
Alph3 : I can’t put odds now (I didn’t play enough), but if Axis stand a chance, it’s greatly less than in Alpha2.

[jim010]

Can we leave this thread for general discussion of the tournament please you two?

[jim010]

To keep things on topic, I’ll stay with alpha3 and bidding.  Otherwise no.

[Jennifer]

Larry’s idea of a destroyer in SZ 99 is to block the British surface fleet from joining a battle in SZ 97.  Remember, in Alpha 3 one of the Italian destroyers has been moved to SZ 96.  The rationale for the additional warship is because England is now in a position where they can afford to get a “hat trick” taking out all three Italian fleets if Germany does not give up some of their attacks and land planes. (If they do, then England still has great odds at taking out two of the fleets.)

There’s also the change of the British fighter making it a Strategic Bomber that you have to consider here.  It’s all but been put on the rules already.  The turn order was changed, so now Australia and France go together after Italy.  I don’t think it’s enough, but again, if Italy goes before England, Larry had the problem of the SZ 98 fleet being sunk.

Why am I discussing this?  Because if we go with Alpha 3 we will have to make the changes to prevent the Italian fleet from being completely destroyed and thus, leaving Italy as a mere shell of a country, otherwise, Allied odds are going to be unrealistically high.

If it is left to me, it will be a German destroyer.  That way, it can be used as Germany sees fit, or left to block the British.  In essence, the maintenance of the Italian fleet is still in German hands, but now Germany can still conduct the battles they want too.  I am, of course, open to suggestions on how to handle the revised situations.  There was a suggestion to just remove the Airbase from Gibraltar and the naval bases from Egypt and Gibraltar which would, in effect, stop England from many of the attacks. (SZ 91 cruiser cannot get there.  Gibraltar fighter cannot get there.  SZ 98 fleet cannot get to SZ 92 or 93…etc.)  What I like about this is that now you’ll have the British buying these facilities at some point in the game, giving the Axis a freebie SBR essentially.  Free as in they dont actually have to risk their assets to get England to shell out money on units or repairs because the Allies need some of these facilities.

I do see Gibraltar occasionally getting a German naval base, but again, it’s a good thing.

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Right now, I am heavily leaning towards going Alpha 3 with the partners being able to elect to stay Alpha 2.  I am also thinking of Alpha 2 with the partners being able to elect Alpha 3.  Honestly, if I had made up my mind on the situation, I’d just declare by fiat what was going to happen, not ask for advice and concern.  I want feedback from the participants, I don’t want to make any significant changes and end up with someone having hurt feelings and I fear that if you don’t give me feedback and you allow one or two loud voices to make changes, then someone is going to get angry and resentful and even if they dont, I’ll think someone is and I’ll fret over who it might be.

Then again, I’m just a silly girl, maybe I’m making something emotional that does not have to be?  Anyway, better safe than sorry.  Jim votes for Alpha 3, so do I personally.  BBB I think votes for Alpha 2, but I have serious misgivings as to his knowledge of Alpha 3 with the changes made over the past couple of months.  (Becuase he said the destroyer in SZ 94 or SZ 96 specifically and Alpha 3 already has a destroyer in SZ 96 already.  And a transport.  This leads me to believe, and I am not saying it is necessarily true mind you, but it leads me to believe he has not kept up to date on the rules and may have missed all of Alpha 3 since that destroyer has been there since Day 1.)

[BigBadBruce]

Is there a starting map available of Alpha 3?