if you’re Italy and Germany signals Sealion, DON’T take Gibraltar. You simply bomb the base after the operation, after which it cannot be repaired, hampering the USA.
Won many a game this way. The poison pill is one of my all-time favorites hahaha!
Best UK defense for Sealion 3 or 4 collaboration
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Wait, you leave the BB to protect the new Transports?
Leaving just 1 CV, 1 CA, 2 Fig to protect 111.
Is the potential sacrifice of that fleet + 3 Transports worth the death of 3-4 UK Fighters? That trade is probably in Germany’s favor, but is still a tough call. Plus that few high-power units means dice could royally screw that fight in either direction very easily. But this is probably ideal, seems alright to me.And I think you’re good as far as UK blocking 111.
If they did, the Luftwaffe would just nuke whatever lone DD/CA UK puts there. No issue there, as far as I can tell.Odds on sz111 are bad. I typed it in wrong before.
5 fht, 1 tac vs 1 CA, 1 CV, 2 fht = 79%
However, UK needs to bring CV up to sz110 for planes to land, potentially.
Swith the BB with the CA and the odds are more like 55%.
Scotland is bad, unless Germany buys some covering units to protect the TTs A buy of 10 TTs looks to be out.
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.@jim010:
If Germany loses a CA in G1, then Scotland on G2 is out.
What about leaving the UK sz91 CA in sz91 to hit sz111 in conjunction with the UK planes?
I agree there. If the dice are naughty in 112 G1, then yes, stay away from Scotland.
Good point with a 91 CA. Hm, tough calls.
Also, I’d recommend against hitting Greece G2.
Those Infantry are needed to block Poland/Hungary/Romania by G4 against Russia’s onslaught. They can make it to Poland exactly by then, along with 1 extra in Yugo for the Egypt NO, and one more in Germany for defense -
We could just leave Scotland alone G2, and go with the full 10 TT.
That would get 26 full loads against UK on G4. That’s pretty ideal, it seems. And more or less unstoppable. -
Also, I’d recommend against hitting Greece G2.
Those Infantry are needed to block Poland/Hungary/Romania by G4 against Russia’s onslaught. They can make it to Poland exactly by then, along with 1 extra in Yugo for the Egypt NO, and one more in Germany for defenseDepends on what is expected to survive in London. If London is expected to be tight, or anything less than 7 units, then I agree, skip Greece.
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It’s not that everything would be destroyed in London, just that they get taken there and are out of Europe for a turn.
It’s really going to take everything else available in Europe along with 10 units purchased G3 in West Germany. -
We could just leave Scotland alone G2, and go with the full 10 TT.
That would get 26 full loads against UK on G4. That’s pretty ideal, it seems. And more or less unstoppable.OK, skip Scotalnd, as it seems that it is too risky with the UK planes hanging around.
It’s not that everything would be destroyed in London, just that they get taken there and are out of Europe for a turn
They can be brought back to Poland by turn 4 Via the TTs, along with whatecer is in Wge. I wouldn’t attack Russia until turn 5 if I did a Sealion, anyway.
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Is it agreed that landing in Scotland during a sealion strategy is not worth it?
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Right, but I’m more worried about a Russian cannonball sitting in East Poland.
They can be brought back to Poland by turn 4 Via the TTs, along with whatecer is in Wge. I wouldn’t attack Russia until turn 5 if I did a Sealion, anyway.
They can’t get back until G5. By then we don’t know what’s in Poland, but it sure isn’t German.
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@Young:
Is it agreed that landing in Scotland during a sealion strategy is not worth it?
It seems to be that a Scotland landing on G2 isn’t worth it, if London places its air as in this scenario.
We are hitting Scotland on G3 though. Then we can focus our navy into a single Seazone.
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Right, but I’m more worried about a Russian cannonball sitting in East Poland.
They can be brought back to Poland by turn 4 Via the TTs, along with whatecer is in Wge. I wouldn’t attack Russia until turn 5 if I did a Sealion, anyway.
They can’t get back until G5. By then we don’t know what’s in Poland, but it sure isn’t German.
I was refering to getting them back if I did a Sealion G3. They make it back then, as the TTs that are in sz110 can pick up everything along the way back to sz114 and unload into Poland - before Russia attacks.
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Oh well right, right.
Germany will have plenty of units left in Europe after a G3 Sealion.
A G3 Sealion with this precise of a UK is pretty tragic for Germany, though.
I was more referring to the apocalyptically powerful G4 Sealion. -
OK, we’l we’ll get there.
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Alright.
If we’re going for a G3 Sealion, then yeah, Greece is an alright idea. Assuming we don’t want Italy to take it, which I guess it could do with its I1.
This G2 seems pretty ideal. -
So UK should NOT scramble its planes on G1 in order to retain options for UK 2, such as hitting sz111 or sz112/113.
If there are 4 UK planes in UK and 2 in Gib, then skip Scotland, and do this, or buy a DD to go with the new TTs. Will only be able to get 8 TTs, though, not 10.
Without running the numbers, 11 TTs and landing in Scotland seems about the same to me as just getting 13 TTs and no Scotland.
As for Greece, I’ll leave it, but it can just as easily not be done.
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Sounds good.
When we run for a planned G4 Sealion, though, we should avoid Greece. Germany will need those Inf elsewhere.Although I’d think that 11 TT + Scotland (3 in Scotland) = 14 loads
So it is just slightly better than a normal 13 TT.And the way we distributed German air for G1, wouldn’t scrambling be to UK’s disadvantage, anyway?
Seem just right, about preserving the RAF to enable these options we’re discussing.
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Couple points regarding this entire discussion -
Do we want to run some scenarios based on different outcomes of G1 106?
I figure it’s the biggest variable of the various battles setting up for Sealion.Also - a minor point based on a much earlier thought:
Hitting 110 instead of 111 would require a bit more air power, but not nearly as much as if we were hitting both navies, that way we could still take Paris and Normandy with very acceptable odds
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Interesting. Could UK take advatage of it, though? Like hitting sz112?
If Germany loses the CA in sz112, and the UK CA in sz91 survives (50%), then UK could hit sz112 with 51% success. A risk, but I’d take it with UK instead of waiting for Germany to get better than even odds of taking London.
In this hypothetical I suggested, of hitting 110 and not 111, the 124 sub hits 112 along with the German navy.
Therefore there’s really no threat of losing the Cruiser.
It also leaves 2 subs to take 106, making victory there much more likely.I understand there’s also large cons to doing this, and we’re already far into this discussion, so feel free to just ignore it.
Just a minor thought. -
That gives England a BB making hitting SZ 92 much harder.
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But that BB is in 111. It’s not really in a position to find both mobility and protection from Germany on its next turn. Plus it’ll take 2 turns to get to 92.
Also, the plan for I1 that we’ve been going with for this scenario doesn’t involve hitting 92 anyway.
Again, just a thought. -
Sounds good.
When we run for a planned G4 Sealion, though, we should avoid Greece. Germany will need those Inf elsewhere.Although I’d think that 11 TT + Scotland (3 in Scotland) = 14 loads
So it is just slightly better than a normal 13 TT.And the way we distributed German air for G1, wouldn’t scrambling be to UK’s disadvantage, anyway?
Seem just right, about preserving the RAF to enable these options we’re discussing.
If going for a G4, the odds of Success for Germany will all depend on the outcome of a 2 round battle in Scotland on UK3. Looks like UK can hit Scotland on UK3 with 23 inf, 1 art, 4 tanks, 5 fht, 1 tac.
The idea is not to take it, but hit for 2 rounds to cause more damage than it receives, and pull back.
If Germany only has 10 TTs for a G4 Sealion, as others suggest, then UK should maul the 20 units in Scotland, leaving Germany with not enough to take Londonn on G4.
So we should look at the maximum number that Germany has to invest in, as 10 TTs or less is not enough.
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How about this, then?
I’m avoiding Scotland, as 4 fht vs 3 fht, 1 DD in sz113 is just too risky.
Safer to just sit in sz112 with the whole fleet. I usually only take Scotland if my opponent doesn’t have the aircraft, but this scenario just leaves options in the hands of the UK.
With this UK defense, G3 Sealion is 70%, surviving with 6 units. Very variable, and not enough units to bring back to Poland.
Onto G4 Sealion, then.
Here’s G2 final. Let’s look at UK 2 now.
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