Turn 2 SeaLion is very difficult but Turn 3 SeaLion is very possible, especially considering what the UK does. Also, the US being in the war does not guarantee the UK is taken back. Most players do a KJF strategy, which I think is a mistake. I believe a KGF strategy is best. If the US marshalls it’s forces correctly(a lot of players don’t know how to play the US to it’s max potential from what I’ve seen), then the US can easily take back the UK, unless Germany puts all it’s resources into defending it, which means Russia steam rolls Germany, even w/Italian help.
Cts, you actually can run odds on later rounds, it just requires a bit of strange unit numbers.
For example:
If I’m attacking with 2 Inf, 2 Art, I get 8 dots to attack.
Say I’ll statistically recieve 1.5 hits from defense.
Then I say I have 0.5 Inf, 2 Art.
That’s where it gets weird, but it still is correct, statistics-wise.
Then I’d get 5 dots to attack.
(2 Art * 2 + 0.5 Inf * 2 = 5)
It’s weird, but it is still right, and requires no rounding.
Here’s the Italian proposal.
Tweaks?
Maybe hit eh DD in sz110?
I guess you need a map.
Turn 2 SeaLion is very difficult but Turn 3 SeaLion is very possible, especially considering what the UK does. Also, the US being in the war does not guarantee the UK is taken back. Most players do a KJF strategy, which I think is a mistake. I believe a KGF strategy is best. If the US marshalls it’s forces correctly(a lot of players don’t know how to play the US to it’s max potential from what I’ve seen), then the US can easily take back the UK, unless Germany puts all it’s resources into defending it, which means Russia steam rolls Germany, even w/Italian help.
Here’s a game of Europe I played with a successful Sealion. UK and Gibraltar were not taken back in the game.
Could be of interest, as there is no Japan to distract the US.
Sorry, slept in.
We /do not/ want England to fall twice. Germ gets paid, if Germ can hold UK with 1 unit and a great chance to capture again the next round, it would not be in Englands interest to liberate their own capital…unless they can hold it.
I don’t like hitting both BB’s, but do see the value in it. What are the average losses you expect from these battles? Basically is the luftwaffe still unhurt? I would suggest possibly sending 1 Germ sub against the CA in sz91 as Germs only low odds battle.
I also find the Normandy battle to be a bit weak, its at 79%, but shows Germ capturing usually with 1 art 1 arm. 23 attacking pips against 22 defending, its a bit close.
I think Italy’s best moves are to build a ftr in this instance and move aircraft into France perhaps.
Good point Jimmy. I think that we should discuss G1’s targets at least to see why we’re doing what we are doing.
To be more specific - hitting SZ 110 or not.
There’s enough merit to both sides that we could discuss it a bit more.
Pro’s:
UK’s navy is pretty much reduced to the Med fleet along with whatever DDs survive G1 and the 91 CA.
No threat (realistically) to the German fleet.
Hitting whatever tries to block the Sealion fleet is significantly easier, requires less air, which can then just go straight for London.
Con’s:
Resources are diverted from other sea/land battles.
Paris and Normandy battles are less assured.
DD in 106 can survive much more often.
No subs can be afforded to the 91 CA (admittedly this is a 50% battle anyway)
Larger risk to important Armor and - to a lesser degree - artillery.
Fighter in Normandy might survive.
Thoughts?
Jen brought up a good point as well; do we want to prioritize SZ 110 over SZ 111?
Perhaps we could put 2 SS to 106, 2 SS to 110, and send the remainder to 112, to be used against what UK navy remains on G2.
The only real “escape” route for the 111 fleet is the Iceland SZ, and from there, it cannot reach 110 on UK2.
Hitting 110 instead of 111 would require a bit more air power, but not nearly as much as if we were hitting both navies, that way we could still take Paris and Normandy with very acceptable odds.
I have a really hard time letting the sz110 fleet go. That CA and BB gives UK options that don’t normally have. The best German opening leaves UK with few options.
In the G1 I posted, 2 sb, 3 fht, 2 tac vs 1 CA, 1 BB, 3 fht (scrambled)
70% with 2 planes surviving on average. This is pretty variable, though, but UK losing 3 planes to 3 German planes only helps Sealion, though.
Hit Normandy with 3 inf, 3 tanks is 84% surviving with 3 units.
Hit Paris with 4 inf, 4 mec, 3 art, 2 tanks, 1 fht, 1 tac is 87% surviving with 5 units.
I can’t get any better odds for any battle without lowering the odds somewhere important.
This is off my G1 posted at the beginning.
Hitting 110 instead of 111 would require a bit more air power, but not nearly as much as if we were hitting both navies, that way we could still take Paris and Normandy with very acceptable odds
.
Interesting. Could UK take advatage of it, though? Like hitting sz112?
If Germany loses the CA in sz112, and the UK CA in sz91 survives (50%), then UK could hit sz112 with 51% success. A risk, but I’d take it with UK instead of waiting for Germany to get better than even odds of taking London.
Interesting. Could UK take advatage of it, though? Like hitting sz112?
Well UK can’t do anything with the 111 fleet that they couldn’t do with the 110 fleet.
I assume you’re building a CV in your scenario and attack with the Gibraltar Fighter as well. That’s the only way I’m getting odds like what you’re calculating. And you’re right, that does make the German fleet relatively vulnerable.
Yes, a UK CV needs to be built.
Risky, but if Germany has Sealion in the bag otherwise, I’d take those odds as UK.
Ok, I agree then that the 110 ships should be attacked if possible, so long as the dd/trn off canada also is sunk. Lets go with your standard G1 opening then Jim because you’ve worked out the best, least risky attacks.
UK to counter will build all inf hopefully, and attempt to get the Med fleet to Gib. If the sz110 fleet dies, then UK should leave a blocker to stop the Italian fleet from attacking. Also expect to need 3 ftrs in Gib for scrambling to dissuade a German airstrike. The trn in 109 should move to the Med fleet and pick up frenchies, while the dd blocks in sz 104. Not that it is important to this exercise, but since India is hitting Iraq UK1, I would build 1 trn for them as well. That leaves UK with 35 ipcs UK1 correct?
If there is a decent possibility of (above 70%) of taking England on G2, it would be utterly foolish to not take it. Who cares if America is in the war on turn 2, Japan would cripple them in Pearl Harbor anyway. If the British take England right back from Germany, the Germans would just get their money twice. The only time England will be liberated after that is if the Americans take it, and with the UK player gone, it will be easier to defend.
Let’s go with mine, or we could be here awhile.
Here it is with the most likely results.
I have it set up that if I wanted to, I can land in Scotland with 6 inf, but there are 3 art available in case London is left weak, and I can’t get the 3 tanksin Normandy for some reason.
My proposed UK 1 based on the previous G1.
I don’t know how to use that battlemap, and my computer is so chock full of virus’s right now, not sure if I want to download it. I can get a new OS once school starts, but that’s going to be another month.
Is there an easy walkthrough on that application since I would only be using it to propose moves, not do any rolling.
If you are talking abattlemap, you cannot do any rolling in it. It is merely a mapping utility. One would do all the rolls on the inhouse dicey or another similar program and those would not be rolled on your computer but rather on the server.
Jim010: Please explain? If Germany uses its subs to take out the dd and TT in SZ106 how does UK lose its 5 IPC bonus?
The Assyrian
Has anyone considered not taking normandy on G1. I know it leaves a UK fighter, but greatly increases the odds on Paris and allows Germany to use its entire AF against the British fleet.
As to Japan v U.S Pacific. Is it not possible to hit the U.S. fleet in Hawaii or SZ10 on J3 with its entire fleet and 16 planes?
Jim010: Please explain? If Germany uses its subs to take out the dd and TT in SZ106 how does UK lose its 5 IPC bonus?
The Assyrian
UK should still have it’s $5 bomus for holding all its territories.
