Attacking Ussr as Germany

[thatonekid]

i was thinking with the japanese, you could just turtle on the two mainland VC’s and focus on knocking out india or anzac. you could also take hawaii early, and keep shucking things to western us. if you turtle on the mainland VC’s you can focus more on building a big navy to counter the US, and make them sweat. it would be pretty difficult to defend both fronts, ya know? if germany captures the quebec G5, like i said, three units pumping into usa mainland every round would be pretty harsh, especially if you build 3 bombers, and SBR the shit out of the western us factory. this would force the us to spend money to repair, or be forced to not build navy.

[JimmyHat]

Have you ever tried a G4 invasion of England?  If you want to see how close the egg is from breaking, try taking London G4 after 2 full loads of troops from the continent.  Now notice how easy it is for Russia to steam roll Europe.  In fact, the only thing stopping the Russians is your fleet bringing those troops back from England!  I don’t see where you’ll be getting the extra units to fight US while trying to stop the Red tide before it reaches Germany.

Also when Russia takes 1 german territory, they get an additional 3ipcs.  That quickly adds up, and the paltry forces Italy can cobble together won’t even be enough to hold Yugoslavia when the Russians lunge.

Europe is hard enough of an objective with all your troops added to the mix, if you send your army away you won’t be able to hold your capital let alone take on Russia.  I prefer to fight the Russians and occasionally add a dd or sub to the atlantic.  I like have excess subs so when US switches to Atlantic I have plenty of blockers ready.

[thatonekid]

@JimmyHat:

Have you ever tried a G4 invasion of England?  If you want to see how close the egg is from breaking, try taking London G4 after 2 full loads of troops from the continent.  Now notice how easy it is for Russia to steam roll Europe.  In fact, the only thing stopping the Russians is your fleet bringing those troops back from England!  I don’t see where you’ll be getting the extra units to fight US while trying to stop the Red tide before it reaches Germany.

Also when Russia takes 1 german territory, they get an additional 3ipcs.  That quickly adds up, and the paltry forces Italy can cobble together won’t even be enough to hold Yugoslavia when the Russians lunge.

of course, you would have to take england G3. and you would also need to dedicate resources to building lots of infantry on the front line. if russia is played correctly, not all of their forces will be on the front line anyway to start. russia’s goal is pretty much “give up land, and keep the VC’s and factories.” it would be easy to turtle on the 3 counrties on the front line, especially if russia buys only inf. like a normal buy.

oh and also, you cant use subs as blockers. it just cant be done.

[JimmyHat]

Well we must play our russia’s differently.  I feel that if Germ is going Sealion, I then want to have more tanks then Germany does on the front lines.  So I usually buy inf/art R1, inf/art R2, inf/art/arm R3, inf/art/arm R4.  After that I try and stay above Germany in tanks.  This is so that I can lunge.  I also want to have a strong army, even if falling back.  Inf are only good for defense.

If Russia cannot bring the fight to the Germans, then they are playing a passive game.  Willingly ceding initiative…not me!

And obviously I meant dd’s block, subs cannot block a thing.  Just a typo.

[thatonekid]

interesting, i just feel that buying infantry whose combat values are 1/2 for 3(so 3 for 3) is better than tanks whose combat values are 3/3 (6 for 6). at least for russia, their main goal early in the game is too defend against germany, and if it looks like germ is gonna do a barbarossa by having all of their stuff on the front lines, its probly better to defend at first.

[ronrye]

This is an interesting thought about Russia. I’ve always found in all the games I’ve played as Russia, that Russia is way stronger than it looks. I’ve played against people who don’t really know how to play as Russia, and I can easily defeat them. But when I play as Russia, I play to attack.

Have you ever played for or against Russia where it attacks full force?

[Chompers2]

@thatonekid:

interesting, i just feel that buying infantry whose combat values are 1/2 for 3(so 3 for 3) is better than tanks whose combat values are 3/3 (6 for 6). at least for russia, their main goal early in the game is too defend against germany, and if it looks like germ is gonna do a barbarossa by having all of their stuff on the front lines, its probly better to defend at first.

While I normaly prefer a mixture of inf/art as Russia I would buy tanks if I smelled a Sea Lion coming.  If Germany does a bloody G3 Sea Lion there is a window for Russia to punch into Germany and get a lot of IPCs as well keep the war far from Moscow.  That being said without American intervention Germany can rebound against Russia with all the cash it will have from sacking London.  Now I have never tried a G4 Sea Lion or played against one.  My gut tells me it could be a heck of fight just to keep the Communists out of Berlin in that scenario.

[thatonekid]

the main point is, although russia may be able to gain some german ground, it wont really matter if the axis takes america, which, like i said before, would be pretty easy with japan knocking on their door in the pacific, and 3 units/turn coming to assault washington directly. also, italy can get a foothold in the mid-east, and help redirect the russian assault.

[knp7765]

I think that if this plan works, and between Japan and Germany you end up taking USA out, then Germany should be able to go back and deal with Russia.  Yeah, Russia will be pretty strong with several rounds of building and they will probably take some German territory at first.  Once USA is out though, Germany can focus all it’s money into first holding Russia off then driving them back.  Once Germany is able to deal with the main Russian front armies that are doing all the damage, I don’t think that Russia will have as much in reserve to back up.  Meanwhile, Germany will be able to build a steady stream of armor and mechs that will steadily punch it’s way back into Russia thanks to all the money they will be getting from UK and USA.

However, if something goes wrong and they can’t take Washington, eventually Russia will surround and take Berlin, swoop down and gobble up Rome, liberate Paris and London then poor Japan will be all alone.

[Commando Brado]

This strategy won’t work. First of all, the US is strong enough to defend against Germany and Japan attacking it at once. If it needs to, it can build up a major defensive land force, capable of defeating anything the Germans or Japanese try to attack it with. The reason being is, as some folks have pointed out, while Germany and Japan are attacking the US, who is defending the German and Japanese IPC hexes from the Russians, Anzac, China and UK India? It won’t be long before your IPC base is toast and you start losing major territories. IF you’re able to beat the US, then the Allied player(s) are very weak! I just don’t see any scenario, even after a successful Sea Lion where the US falls, w/out the Germans & Japanese being steamrolled by the other Allied countries. The Axis would have to protect their IPC territories AND conquer the USA. I just don’t see this as being possible. Keep in mind, it’s easy to block SZ’s w/1 DD, making it difficult for the opposing player to make any headway.

I believe, after a successful Sea Lion that the path to easiest resistance is attacking Russia, especially if the Japanese are also focused on this effort. You use a two prong attack, w/the help of the Japanese through China and Soviet Far East. And the Italians down south.

Also, as some folks have pointed out on this thread, if you see on G2, Germany builds a bunch of transports, then Russia should IMMEDIATELY switch to offense and switch their builds from mostly infantry to mostly artillery and tanks. In the beginning, it is good for Russia to build mostly infantry but not ALL infantry. I believe this is a mistake. With 37 IPC’s a turn, I think it’s best to build about 9 Inf a turn. Then build Art, Mech & Tanks. By the time Germany attacks Russia, usually Turn 3 or Turn 4, Russia will have a nice sized attacking force. But, if the Russians are still building infantry, after the Germans have tipped their hand that they’re doing SeaLion, then you’ve made a HUGE mistake as Russia.

[Jennifer]

Yes, but while you’re taking out the US, the USSR is taking out you.

[thatonekid]

one of the big points is that, even if Russia steamrolls on the europe map, if japan and germany and italy team up to take out us, then the only ones defending the pacific are Uk, anzac, and china. forces easily dealt with by mighty japan. you only need to win on ONE board. and you only need ONE capital. so if germany builds all they can and sends it over to take out usa, it would TOTALLY be worth it to free up the japanese.

[Jennifer]

I’ve yet to see USA be taken out.  I have seen the Americans lose their capitol and then, in the same game, still end up slaughtering Japan like an over fattened pig at market.

[JimmyHat]

Something to keep in mind, the axis do not win for capturing captials, but the allies do.  If the axis are able to take US, Russia will take Germany.(its too far to bring your troops back…and your fleet…and your aircraft.)  If Russia takes Germany, I think they will take Italy too.

So now its Japan against the minors and a huge Russia, and a large Axis prisoner of war camp on America.

[thatonekid]

japan against uk, anzac, and china wouldn’t be that hard. and the remainder of the german and italian forces could deal with russia until japan wins. and if japan takes western us, and has hawaii, japan, hong kong, shanghai, and the phillipenes, it wont even need to go after either of the other two capitals.

[Jennifer]

Yer dreamin if you think Japan is getting W. USA.

[thatonekid]

wanna play a game, i bet i have probly about a 40/60 chance of taking america by implementing this strategy. i cant play for a few days, but when i get back from this trip ill totally kick your __insert word here.

[Jennifer]

I’ve seen E. USA go down, but never W. USA.  Even if E. USA goes down, I don’t see W. USA going down!

[thatonekid]

really??? even if germ takes the capital, you still think w usa could hold out against japan, if they’re pumping everything into taking it??

[Jennifer]

@thatonekid:

really??? even if germ takes the capital, you still think w usa could hold out against japan, if they’re pumping everything into taking it??

I just did it.  I got suckered by a German invasion I didnt see coming, liberated it that round and I am STILL ripping Japan apart with the American fleet.