Alpha 2 Sea Lion

[JimmyHat]

I’m a bit more conservative with my G1.  I only hit the bb in sz11 and the CA off gibraltar.  This way I can perhaps get a sub from the atlantic to join my fleet off Denmark.  I also have been purchasing the 2 trns 1 CV on G1 so that I have a credible threat on a G2 invasion of Scotland with 5 inf 1 aa.  I have been leaving the Italian army to die in Tobruk lately and landing 2 ftr 1 tac in SItaly.  This way most of my airforce is available to clear the English channel if needed G2 but most likely their prescence will keep the remaining UK ships away from the coast of Europe.  G2 land in Scotland.  G3 land in london.  G2 expect to buy 1 dd rest trns, the dd is to add a cheap soak wound in case UK tries to sink the 8 or 9 trns in the Skaggerat.

I’m more conservative G1 because I don’t want my opponent to scramble, so I send maximum attackers so it is unwise for him.  I also hit Normandy.

I think when going 1 CV 1 dd 1 sub G1 that you are actually better suited to switching to Barbarossa and hitting Russia G3.

[jim010]

I, too have landed in Scotland turn 2.

Removing all UK ships from play I like better than just hitting 1 sz, as it removes options for him.  The fewer options he has, the better.  With 6 planes on sz110, he would do better to not scramble.

And if he does scramble, barring luck, you will win, and he loses 3 planes for your 1-2.  I like this, too, as it also removes more possibilites for him, and Seaion just became more viable.

All that being said, I repeat that with alpha 2, Sealion can be stopped cold.  I still use this opening, as it still kills the UK fleet, and UK MUST respond properly, making UK moves predictable.

[edfactor]

Is there some build besides solid infantry that will stop sealion?

[Jennifer]

@edfactor:

Is there some build besides solid infantry that will stop sealion?

I like an armor and some extra aircraft myself.

[jim010]

@edfactor:

Is there some build besides solid infantry that will stop sealion?

No.  You need to max out your factory both turns.  That means 9 units turn 1 and 10 turn 2.

[Young Grasshopper]

@edfactor:

Is there some build besides solid infantry that will stop sealion?

I spend my money in Quebec while I still have some. I than prepare and execute a plan to liberate London with the Americans, I Usually buy warships in the first turn or two including an aircraft carrier to retreat my fighters on, I call it operation Albatross.

[jim010]

@Young:

@edfactor:

Is there some build besides solid infantry that will stop sealion?

I spend my money in Quebec while I still have some. I than prepare and execute a plan to liberate London with the Americans, I Usually buy warships in the first turn or two including an aircraft carrier to retreat my fighters on, I call it operation Albatross.

Why?  You can hold UK.  Why give it to the Germans?

[JimmyHat]

Well, not sure how you can hold UK but it might be possible.  What if Germ buys 2 trns G1 and then 10 more G2?  Now he can land with 13 loads in Scotland G3 and hit london with 26 ground plus aircraft G4?

I’d love to be able to hold UK, just not sure how to do it, does it include a US1 buy of a carrier to station in the Atlantic to ferry additional ftrs?

[Jennifer]

There is a viable strategy that entails abandoning England.

I have not tried, it, but I have heard of it.

[jim010]

Turn 3 can be stopped.  A turn 4 requires UK to hit and fade Scotland.

Germany should have 12 TT, not 13, though.

[Young Grasshopper]

@jim010:

@Young:

@edfactor:

Is there some build besides solid infantry that will stop sealion?

I spend my money in Quebec while I still have some. I than prepare and execute a plan to liberate London with the Americans, I Usually buy warships in the first turn or two including an aircraft carrier to retreat my fighters on, I call it operation Albatross.

Why?  You can hold UK.  Why give it to the Germans?

I have seen 2 games where the UK spent all their resources trying to defend sea lion and when they eventually lost it, they were left with zero money and very little units on the Europe board. Needless to say that their game experience for the next 7 hours wasn’t much fun, I don’t want that to be me.

[special forces]

@Young:

@jim010:

@Young:

@edfactor:

Is there some build besides solid infantry that will stop sealion?

I spend my money in Quebec while I still have some. I than prepare and execute a plan to liberate London with the Americans, I Usually buy warships in the first turn or two including an aircraft carrier to retreat my fighters on, I call it operation Albatross.

Why?  You can hold UK.  Why give it to the Germans?

I have seen 2 games where the UK spent all their resources trying to defend sea lion and when they eventually lost it, they were left with zero money and very little units on the Europe board. Needless to say that their game experience for the next 7 hours wasn’t much fun, I don’t want that to be me.

I’m sure they have cost a lot to the Germans too, in units. If you’re lucky even some planes. If you give UK away, you’ll have zero money as well, and more units, but Germany will also lose a lot less, which is bad for Russia.

[Chompers2]

@Young:

I have seen 2 games where the UK spent all their resources trying to defend sea lion and when they eventually lost it, they were left with zero money and very little units on the Europe board. Needless to say that their game experience for the next 7 hours wasn’t much fun, I don’t want that to be me.

They may be true but I believe that if the UK can really bleed Germany enough in Sea Lion that it increases the chance greatly that the Allies will win the Game.  If the UK just does fully defend itself then Germany will win Sea Lion will the Air Force intact and with a ton of troops sitting in the London.  This makes taking London back for the US a very tough job.

[Young Grasshopper]

As the UK, I personally like liberating when Russia is distracting Germany rather than defending when I’m all alone. That’s just my strategy preference.

[jim010]

@Young:

@jim010:

@Young:

@edfactor:

Is there some build besides solid infantry that will stop sealion?

I spend my money in Quebec while I still have some. I than prepare and execute a plan to liberate London with the Americans, I Usually buy warships in the first turn or two including an aircraft carrier to retreat my fighters on, I call it operation Albatross.

Why?  You can hold UK.  Why give it to the Germans?

I have seen 2 games where the UK spent all their resources trying to defend sea lion and when they eventually lost it, they were left with zero money and very little units on the Europe board. Needless to say that their game experience for the next 7 hours wasn’t much fun, I don’t want that to be me.

That shouldn’t happen.  Odds of German success if UK goes all in is less than 40% in Alpha 2+.  UK got unlucky in your game.

[Young Grasshopper]

@jim010:

@Young:

@jim010:

@Young:

@edfactor:

Is there some build besides solid infantry that will stop sealion?

I spend my money in Quebec while I still have some. I than prepare and execute a plan to liberate London with the Americans, I Usually buy warships in the first turn or two including an aircraft carrier to retreat my fighters on, I call it operation Albatross.

Why?  You can hold UK.  Why give it to the Germans?

I have seen 2 games where the UK spent all their resources trying to defend sea lion and when they eventually lost it, they were left with zero money and very little units on the Europe board. Needless to say that their game experience for the next 7 hours wasn’t much fun, I don’t want that to be me.

That shouldn’t happen.  Odds of German success if UK goes all in is less than 40% in Alpha 2+.  UK got unlucky in your game.

You are right in one case (dice rolls were horrible). Point is, I need to play in more games to personally see the UK successfully defend sea lion (of course, games where I am not playing the UK). The problem is a buddy of mine in my one on one group has adopted the same strategy from me.

[Bigtiti]

so the invasion of britian is possible
what do japan and italy do?
(italy taking egypt is impossible, i don’t get how anybody can do it)
what bout US counterattacks and the massive russian army?

[jim010]

My reasons for setting up for Sealion just in case UK is not defended properly in Alpha 2.

1. You are wiping out 25+ UK ground and air units for ~20 German ground units. That’s a good exchange.

2. You are going to have to fight these units when they land in France, or wherever else they are going, so why NOT kill them right there in the UK?

3. UK now has limited options or none for most of (or the rest of) the game.  That counts for something.

4. In addition to the first 3 turns of the UK being wiped out, at least the next few turns as well are gone.  Assuming the Allies take UK back right away, they are still missing ~$25 per turn that he is out of the game.

5. Also, you do capture UK’s ~$30, so that repenishes 10 inf lost in the battle for you right on turn 4. So your losses aren’t really ~20 ground units, but more like ~10.

6. The $13 for owning UK every turn also helps pay back the investment made in taking UK out.

7. So does the absence of a need to defend France (which is SO much easier now).

8. As for taking Russia, you are now outspending Russia 2 to 1.  You WILL catch up fast, especially with the ~$90 you have to spend on turn 4.

9. And those 12 TTs should not be a one time use.  They should ferry inf and art from your factories right up to Baltic States.  That is getting them there from Germany 1 turn early, and 2 turns early from West Germany.  That also makes up for losses from UK.

10. And Leningrad would need to be defended properly against 24 ground units from those TTs or be abandoned.

11. Taking UK back?  US liberates UK.  UK goes next and collects ~$24.  Germany goes next and retakes London with 12 TTs and takes UK $ again?  I’ve done that - it was pretty funny.  Besides, I’d rather defend in London where he is not a direct threat than in France.

[Young Grasshopper]

So, I just attempted sea lion and got my butt kicked so hard, my unborn grand children will have frequent nose bleeds for life. I guess I needed that to become a little more respectful towards a good sea lion defense. Cheers.

[jim010]

@Young:

So, I just attempted sea lion and got my butt kicked so hard, my unborn grand children will have frequent nose bleeds for life. I guess I needed that to become a little more respectful towards a good sea lion defense. Cheers.

I repeat, Sealion is a go ONLY if UK improperly defends against it.

Here are some numbers for you

Turn 3 Sealion highest numbers for both sides (UK pulling out of Med)

Germany 12 inf, 4 art, 8 tanks, 5 fht, 5 tac, 1 bmb, 1 BB, 1 CA

vs

UK 25 inf, 1 art, 3 tanks, 7 fht, 1 tac

Sealion success 15%

If UK still attacks Italy, take away 2 fht, 1 tac, 1 inf, 1 tank - then odds rise to 80% and survivng with 8 units on average.

This can be tinkered with by landing 5 units 1 AA in Scotland on turn 2.

Could also land turn 3 with 24 units and hit London on turn 4.  In this case, UK would hit Scotland for 2 rounds and pull back.  It would be bad luck for the UK, however, if they got stuck in Scotland by actually winning there (as happened to me once).