France

[Ruanek]

I don’t think France really offers a chance to distract Germany from building a navy.  From what I can tell most German naval buys are turn 1 (an aircraft carrier and 3 transports seems to be popular) and even if France does survive turn 1 Germany is going to attack with what it has currently (including its massive air force) and won’t build units to deal with France the next turn.  I suppose it stops Germany from building stuff in Normandy and Southern France, but that isn’t too popular anyway.  A German navy isn’t that popular, anyway.

In my opinion, it doesn’t offer much help to Russia either.  Russia’s in a pretty good position to hold out for a while whatever happens in the West, though I suppose it could theoretically delay Germany from taking Moscow by a turn if Paris doesn’t fall round 1.

The main thing, though, is Paris really almost always falls turn 1 to Germany (like 95%, at least).  Its survival to turn 3 indicates a terrible German player, which would spell doom for the Axis anyway.  So any chance of France diverting German attention is pretty much theoretical, anyway.

[taschuler]

France is an afterthought, and the last to go in a round. More than likely you will move 4 troops in Africa, 1 in Syria and a Destroyer till all of those get destroyed.

[Lord Claremorris]

Ah well. I suppose I’m just getting too hopeful then. Poor France, it’s still nice to have them in the game though, I don’t suppose it would be any use as being independently controlled by one person, but it definitely is nice to have a few French forces in the colonies to help out in holding Africa. Shame they didn’t give France more ships, the French Navy was the 4th largest in the World in 1940, much bigger than Russia’s, Germany’s, or Italy’s, but I understand that’s for game balance purposes. But I digress, thank you gentlemen for explaining to me the usual outcomes concerning France at the beginning of the game.

[Ruanek]

You could probably explain their lack of a navy with the whole lack of a Vichy France in the game.  The French navy didn’t contribute much to the war, and the British actually sank some of it themselves (they were afraid it would fall under German control).

[taschuler]

In the global game they start out with 2 cruisers and 2 destroyers. In every game I have played the cruiser in the North sea is destroyed, as are the cruiser and destroyer in the Mediterranean. The only ship left is the Destroyer by Madagascar.

There is a French infantry and fighter in England that I forgot, but they are there solely to help defend the UK.

[Lord Claremorris]

Indeed, “Operation Catapult.” The British sank or interned every French ship they could lay hands on. Later the remainder of the French Fleet sunk itself in Toulon when the Germans attempted to seize it. French Admiral Jean de Laborde yelled in response to a German demand to board the battlecruiser Dunkerque, “You’re too late, the ship will sink.” So in the actual war the French Fleet did barely anything.

Thanks for telling me the usual fate of the French Fleet in game, by the way. One destroyer is hardly of much use.

[Xandax]

France only exists as a nation due to the boards starting position. It’s global, it’s 1940 and France hasn’t fallen yet - hence a French nation is needed.
But if France was in any position to threaten Germany/Italy - the game would be a failure because then the Allies would have even an easier time winning.
The game could just as well have started with France occupied by Germany, but given the 1940 start - it would have been odd.

Frances purpose is to give Germany some extra IPC and to slow down Italy’s movement a little to the west in Africa. It is also why it isn’t played as a single nation in a 3+ person game.

[Ruanek]

What do you mean it isn’t played as a single nation in a 3+ game?  As far as I know, it’s always controlled by a player who controls another country (even in 2 player games) but it has its own distinct turn.

[Xandax]

@Ruanek:

What do you mean it isn’t played as a single nation in a 3+ game?  As far as I know, it’s always controlled by a player who controls another country (even in 2 player games) but it has its own distinct turn.

I mean the player controlling France is always controlling another nation as well. That alone should show the level of France’s involvement in the game. Even China has more of a role.

[JeffM]

Yeah, while France is in the game, they REALLY do not play much of a role in the overall outcome of the War.  If you liberate them, they become a playable faction once again and get bonus troops in Paris… being that France goes after the UK and the US, they can help reinforce allied gains in Western Europe.

[Robbernosky]

@JeffM:

Yeah, while France is in the game, they REALLY do not play much of a role in the overall outcome of the War.  If you liberate them, they become a playable faction once again and get bonus troops in Paris… being that France goes after the UK and the US, they can help reinforce allied gains in Western Europe.

Yeah, and it helps if Western Germany is neither a non-threat or captured.

[knp7765]

In all the games I have played so far, there were two times that France didn’t fall to Germany on G1.  This was due basically to Germany not committing enough units to attacking France and some lucky dice for France.  In both cases, Italy finished the job on I1.
One thing about Germany having to take France is that it does force Germany to commit quite a lot of recources to that.  France itself is stacked pretty strong (6 inf, 2 art, 2 tanks, 1 fighter and 1 Brit inf).  That’s a lot to take down when you think about it.  Plus the addition of a British inf and fighter on Normandy makes it a little harder for Germany.  So while France does usually fall G1, I’ve found it takes a lot of German recources to do it and quite often after investing a large amount of forces I see Germany ending up with only 2 or 3 tanks left out of that force.  So, while France doesn’t get to do a lot of buying units or counterattacking, at the very least they use up Axis resources and slow them down some.
Plus, sometimes they can surprise you by putting up more of a fight than you would expect.  One time I saw the French Cruiser and Destroyer in the Med hold out against an Italian sub, 2 destroyers, 1 fighter and 1 tac.  Another time I saw the French infantry in Syria defeat an Italian tank and infantry to hold that territory and slow the Italian advance in the Middle East.

[Lord Claremorris]

Interesting. Yes, I’m not quite liking North Italy being contiguous with France, as realistically you cannot reach the heart of France from Italy. Nonetheless that is about the answer I was looking for. Thank you sir.

[taschuler]

The game could get more granular with certain boundaries that either you cannot blitz through and/or only a limited number of units can move through in a turn. One such should be N Italy/S France.

I also think some territories should hamper movement of mechanized units. Burma/Siam/FIC should all be 1 move territories due to dense jungles and possibly a diminished attack or defense for mech units.

[Lord Claremorris]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. The Alps are a pretty formidable barrier, I think it should be similar with Persia, and like you said, with the dense jungles of South-East Asia.

As for Italy taking France, wouldn’t that be a very good thing for the Allies? I just played my first game of Global 1940 and I was thinking that if Germany didn’t bag that extra 23 IPCs from taking Paris, then that would make Sealion pretty darn difficult. It would be much less dangerous to have Italy take the money, seeing as how they’re in no position to do Sealion. So I’m thinking, if France resists Germany on G1, even if Italy takes France on I1, the UK is more or less saved from Sealion, unless the UK player is really terrible.

[knp7765]

Yeah, I agree.  If Germany fails to take Paris, even if the Italians end up taking Paris it will definitely slow things down for the Axis.  Germany won’t have as much money to spend on Sealion or even Barbarossa.  Since Italy has to commit resources to taking Paris, that will set them back in the Med and Africa.  Plus, if Sealion fails or just doesn’t happen because Germany doesn’t think they can do it, the Brits could really take advantage of the situation in Africa and make things rough for the Italians, even with the extra French money.  I’m not saying the Axis couldn’t still win the war, it will just be harder to do.

Of course, if France doesn’t fall to Germany G1, Italy does have the option of ignoring Paris and moving on with their Med operations.  Problem with this strategy is it leaves an enemy force right there on both Axis country’s doorstep.  Not sure if Paris could survive a second German attack but at the very least, it would take even more German resources and Sealion would be just about out of the picture.  Unless Germany went ahead with Sealion without taking Paris first.  I wonder if that could work.

[Lord Claremorris]

That’s an interesting thought. If I were Germany I would consider France the bigger threat over the UK. The UK has more money, but France has a decent amount, and it doesn’t need any transports to hit Germany. If France is allowed to survive for a few turns it might be able to throw a decent amount of troops at West Germany or Holland/Belgium and take them from the Germans, or they could take North Italy and take the Italians only Major IC. Even if the UK falls things will not be pretty on the Continent, and if Germany doesn’t manage to finish France of by turn 3, then they’re pretty much screwed, because in comes the Bear. But yes, both Italy and Germany get set back pretty bad, the UK might have the chance to wreck Italy’s Navy which would more or less neutralise the Italians.

[italiansarecoming]

I realize this is a super old thread  :-D  However I am quite lazy.  Anyways my friends and I played from 6pm-7am and to sum it all up France got utterly destroyed first turn.  However once it came back into the game it took Germany.  I still have the picture on my phone :)

[Gargantua]

I hold out every game with France.  And I roll over Germany with tankettes by round 5!

[BulwFi]

France get annihilated in every game the only useful thing they have is 2 or 3 boats and a fighter after Paris falls which happens at the begining of every game.