S02 Zhukov44 (Allies) vs Amon Sûl (Axis) - 11 IPC

[Zhukov44]

Not much to add–the map is posted above.  As Ksmckay mentioned, the UK sub is still alive and can’t be attacked w/o a dd.

[Amon-Sul]

@ksmckay:

You cant hit a ss in z35 without a jap dd present.  It cant shoot you but you cant shoot it either.  No way for you to kill it.

but how can the sub receive hits isntead of dd

if it plays

it can be hit right ?!

[Amon-Sul]

@Zhukov44:

Battle in 2 Sea Zone
                British attack with 1 bomber, 2 destroyers and 1 fighter; Russians loiter and taunt with
                Germans defend with 2 submarines

hahahahha :-))

[Amon-Sul]

Game History

Round :1

Purchase Units - Italians
            Italians buy 1 infantry and 1 transport; 0 PUs remaining

Combat Move - Italians
            1 infantry moved from Libya to Egypt
                  Italians take Egypt from British

Non Combat Move - Italians
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Italy to 14 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 14 Sea Zone to Libya
            2 infantry moved from Balkans to Bulgaria Romania
            1 armour moved from Italy to Balkans
            1 fighter moved from Italy to Libya

Place Units - Italians
            1 infantry placed in Italy
            1 transport placed in 14 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - Italians
            Italians collect 12 PUs; end with 12 PUs total
            Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 17 PUs

A&A Forum : http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=23248.37#msg794829

[Amon-Sul]

Territory Summary for Italians :

Balkans : 2 armour
    Egypt : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    Italy : 1 aaGun, 1 factory and 1 infantry
    Libya : 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 2 infantry
    Bulgaria Romania : 2 infantry
    14 Sea Zone : 1 battleship, 2 cruisers and 2 transports

[Amon-Sul]

Turn Complete - Italians
            Italians collect 12 PUs; end with 12 PUs total
            Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 17 PUs

Territory Summary for Americans :

Alaska : 1 infantry
    Central United States : 1 infantry
    Eastern United States : 1 aaGun, 1 artillery, 1 bomber, 1 factory, 1 fighter and 1 infantry
    Hawaiian Islands : 1 fighter and 1 infantry
    Midway : 1 infantry
    Wake Island : 1 infantry
    Western United States : 1 aaGun, 1 bomber, 1 factory, 1 fighter and 1 infantry
    10 Sea Zone : 1 destroyer and 1 transport
    44 Sea Zone : 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter

[Amon-Sul]

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 35 / 45
    Russians : 26 / 31
    Japanese : 33 / 43
    British : 30 / 38
    Italians : 12 / 17
    Chinese : 4 / 0
    Americans : 38 / 40

[ksmckay]

@Amon:

@ksmckay:

You cant hit a ss in z35 without a jap dd present.  It cant shoot you but you cant shoot it either.  No way for you to kill it.

but how can the sub receive hits isntead of dd

if it plays

it can be hit right ?!

In order for an enemy sub to be hit by an air unit you must have a destroyer present.  The enemy sub can be hit by your ships but not by any air units if there is no destroyer present.

A sub can NEVER hit an air unit.

Example:

Japan uses 5 ftrs to attack a sea zone with 5 UK subs
  nothing happens neither side can hit the other.

Japan uses 5 ftrs and a dd to attack a 5 UK subs
  Japanese ftrs can hit UK subs, Subs can only hit the jap destroyer.
  So if every unit scored a hit (6 for japan, and 5 for UK) then Japan would only lose the destroyer as the UK subs cant hit air units and all 5 UK subs would be hit and lost.

There are lots of other examples but its probably very important for you to understand the rule.  It can make a huge difference in naval battles with lots of subs.  Sometime one side will have lots of subs so the attacker might purposely not bring a destroyer so that the defender cant select subs for casualties from air units.

Try out some battles on tripleA, if you dont submerge the sub the battle will either stop automatically or go on forever.

[Amon-Sul]

so even if i ( as defender want it) my sub cant be hit by attackers fig

and that how cant be taken as casualty and receive hit from air

?

i think you re wrong

[ksmckay]

Yep, even if you want it as a casualty you cant select it as it is against the rules.

Here is a link to the official faq for Axis and Allies Anniversary.

You can read the section on submarines for proof/clarification of the rules.

If you have a copy of the rules you can look at page 30 under submarines for this
“Cannot Attack Air Units: When attacking or defending, submarines cannot hit air units.”

And you can look at page 29 at the secion on destroyers where it says this as an ability of destroyers.
Additionally, your aircraft may attack enemy submarines.

There is zero chance that I am wrong on this.

Make sure you read the faq as that is a pretty helpful document.

[ksmckay]

oops forgot the link to the faq

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/pdf/Anniversary_FAQ.pdf

[ksmckay]

Hrmm, it deleted the faq link automatically

http :// www.harris  gamedesign.com/pdf/Anniversary_FAQ.pdf

Just remove the spaces for the link to work

[ksmckay]

ha ok, sorry for all the link posts, since there is a link it has to be approved by a moderator.

Just google search for axis and allies anniversary faq and it should be the first thing on the list from harris game design.

[Amon-Sul]

i apologise

i taught tra is the only unit which cant be taken as cas

sorry

thank you

[ksmckay]

@Amon:

i apologise

i taught tra is the only unit which cant be taken as cas

sorry

thank you

No problem, just trying to help you understand as it can be a pretty important rule and make a big difference in how someone might select casualties in a battle.

[Zhukov44]

Amon Sul,

Basically the deal is that unless the attacker has a destroyer, a sub can submerge prior to the attack.  Air cannot hit a sub (w/o a destroyer).  So for SZ 35 there is no choice to submerge or not.

Now if you attacked the sub with naval vessels but no dd, then I can choose to have the sub stay and defend if I want.  However, if you attack with a dd, then all my special sub abilities are null and void.

Since Japan only starts with 1 dd, you can understand why a sub to sz35 is a common bid placement.  Allies will get at least 1 transport for the bid, and sometimes more.

[Zhukov44]

Hmm post turn summary didn’t work this time.

[Zhukov44]

I did get the dicey email though….

Hmm I’m not able to copy/paste either (is there a special way to do that?), so I’ll just type up a quick summary…

USA 1, buy ac tpt fig 3 inf

No combat

NCM
ac dd 45>43
fig 45, fig haw, fig bmb wusa, inf ala, inf aa wusa>wcan
fig bmb eusa>uk

Place 3 inf eusa, fig wusa, ac tpt 10

China 1

Combat
inf fig yun>fuk

Each side lost 1 inf, fuk holds nt. (combat roll in your email)

NCM
fig>chi

Place 2 inf chi.

000001_tourney_zhukov4_amonsul_01FA.tsvg

[Amon-Sul]

@Zhukov44:

Amon Sul,

Basically the deal is that unless the attacker has a destroyer, a sub can submerge prior to the attack.  Air cannot hit a sub (w/o a destroyer).  So for SZ 35 there is no choice to submerge or not.

Now if you attacked the sub with naval vessels but no dd, then I can choose to have the sub stay and defend if I want.  However, if you attack with a dd, then all my special sub abilities are null and void.

Since Japan only starts with 1 dd, you can understand why a sub to sz35 is a common bid placement.  Allies will get at least 1 transport for the bid, and sometimes more.

so your hands were tied
to in that battle it HAD to be like theres no sub at all

1 des against 2 figs

[Amon-Sul]

Game History

Round :2

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 1 armour, 1 battleship, 1 carrier and 2 infantry; 0 PUs remaining

Combat Move - Germans
            1 bomber moved from Norway to Karelia S.S.R.
            1 infantry moved from Finland to Karelia S.S.R.

Combat - Germans
            Strategic bombing raid in Karelia S.S.R.
            Bombing raid in Karelia S.S.R. costs: 1 production.
                AA raid costs 1  production in Karelia S.S.R.

Non Combat Move - Germans
            1 infantry moved from East Poland to Baltic States
            1 infantry moved from Ukraine to East Poland
            1 artillery moved from East Poland to Poland
            2 armour moved from Baltic States to Poland
            1 armour moved from East Poland to Poland
            2 infantry moved from Norway to 5 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Finland to 5 Sea Zone
            3 infantry moved from 5 Sea Zone to Poland
            1 fighter moved from Norway to 5 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from France to 5 Sea Zone
            4 infantry moved from France to Germany
            1 bomber moved from Karelia S.S.R. to Balkans
            1 transport moved from 14 Sea Zone to 16 Sea Zone
            2 armour moved from Ukraine to Poland
            1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Ukraine to 16 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 16 Sea Zone to 14 Sea Zone
            1 armour and 1 infantry moved from 14 Sea Zone to Libya

Place Units - Germans
            1 armour and 2 infantry placed in Germany
            1 battleship and 1 carrier placed in 5 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - Germans
            Germans collect 37 PUs; end with 37 PUs total
            Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 42 PUs
            Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 47 PUs
            Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 52 PUs

Territory Summary for Germans :

Balkans : 1 bomber
    Baltic States : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    East Poland : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    Germany : 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 factory and 6 infantry
    Karelia S.S.R. : 1 flag, 1 factory and 1 infantry
    Libya : 3 armour, 1 artillery and 4 infantry
    Poland : 5 armour, 1 artillery and 3 infantry
    Ukraine : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    5 Sea Zone : 1 battleship, 2 carriers, 1 cruiser, 4 fighters and 2 transports
    14 Sea Zone : 1 transport