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SBR Cities

House Rules

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D

Dijitz
last edited by

Anyone think about bombing cities? Any ideas?
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C

crusaderiv
last edited by

Yes but like the concentration camp, there’s no place for bombing cities.
But I add bombing oil refinery/oil production in my house rules.
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G

Gargantua Liaison TripleA 11 10
last edited by

You would have to put together a simple scale

“National Morale Points”

Say you start with 25 points, and get + 2 points a turn. If you get pummelled by SBR, for each point you get hit, you lose a morale point. If you hit 0. You start losing an infantry for every point, or two points or something.
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I

i rock
last edited by

I have never heard of stratigic bombing of citys lowering public moral ever Gargantua alll I’ve ever heard was that it hardned the civilians will to fight the war.
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I

i rock
last edited by

Crap frogot about those instances but other than that it did nothing.
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G

Gargantua Liaison TripleA 11 10
last edited by

Well in fairness I suppose… they were more about BUILDING morale… but whatever same thing.
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G

SBR's with D8 D10 dice

House Rules
• • • General 6 Stars

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B

@SS:

This is what we have in game now.

Bombers C10
H Bombers C12

Bomber D6 1-6 3.5 ave 6 max dam 1 lowest dam

H Bomber D6+2 1-8 4.5 ave 8 max dam 3 lowest dam

This is the change I’m putting in next game.

Bomber D8 1-8 4.5 ave 8 max dam 1 lowest dam

H Bomber D10 1-10 5.5 ave 10 max dam 1 lowest dam

Nice +1 dmg increase.
To your game, it fit perfectly well with no bonus, only 1 dice to roll.

I like the fact that heavy bomber get a wider range from 1 to 10.
I don’t think heavy (high altitude bomber) were more accurate than bomber.
Probably due to the high altitude of bombing.
B

SBR comparative analysis, a real breakthrough

House Rules
• • • baron Münchhausen

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@Imperious:

The Strategic Bomber is just fine as it is. The only OOB unit that’s problematic is the Cruiser at 10 IPC.

People buy Bombers because of their reach for both land and sea, numbers don’t quantity that value.

Sorry IL but it is a totally different paradigm we were talking about.
A game changer for Strategic bomber, no more A4 C12 M6.
It is a much different dynamic and have way more interesting implications.

Here is the link to this Redesign discussion:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=39384.msg1632453#msg1632453

Soon, you will be able to playtest G40 both AA Cruiser C12 and bomber C5 on Triple A.

This method is to compare between SBR values in itself.
It cannot consider general combat values for sure.

And a way to explain why some SBR method and values may be unbalanced even without a lot of gametests.
B

A better HR for making G40 SBR dogfight more appealing?

House Rules
• • • baron Münchhausen

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B

@Baron:

1942.2 SBR Black Elk hypothesis

Strategic Bomber
Attack 0
Damage 1D6, 1D6+2
Cost 5

Fighter
Attack 1
Defense 1
Cost 10

Break even point C5, 1D6 damage: near 1 StB vs 2 Fgs: 0.5 StB/Fg
1 StB vs 2 Fgs : + 2.025 - 2.106 = -0.081 IPCs
12 StB vs 23 Fgs: exactly 0.522 StB/Fg
No FIT (Fighter Interception Threshold), always beneficial to Intercept.

Down below here is a different values doing SBR for 1942.2 and G40

Strategic Bomber in air-to-air combat SBR:
Attack 0
Bombard IC damage: D6 or 1D6+2

Fighter in air-to-air combat SBR:
Attack 1
Defend 1

IC’s AAA: @1 against each Strategic Bomber

1942.2 SBR HRules with StB A0 and Fg A1 D1 : damage 1D6 or 1D6+2

1 Strategic Bomber doing SBR against no interceptor

AAA roll = odds casualties

5/6 StB survived * 5.5 IPCs = +4.583 IPCs *3.5= +2.917 *6.5= 5.417
1/6 StB killed *5 IPCs = -0.833 IPCs

D6: +2.917-0.833= +2.084 IPCs
D6+2: + 4.583 - 0.833 = +3.750 IPCs damage/SBR

1 Strategic Bomber Att 0 doing SBR against 1 interceptor Def 1

Interceptor Fg roll/ AAA roll = odds casualties

1/66/6 = 6/36 1 StB killed by Fg
5/61/6 = 5/36 1 StB killed by AAA
5/6*5/6 = 25/36 No casualty at all.

Results:
Bombard on IC 25/36* ((1+2)+(6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = + 3.819 IPCs *3.5= 2.431 *6.5=+4.514
StB killed 11/36 *-5 IPCs = - 1.528 IPCs

D6: + 2.431 - 1.528 = +0.903
D6+2: + 3.819 - 1.528= + 2.291 IPC damage/SBR

1 Strategic Bomber Att 0 doing SBR against 2 interceptors Def 1

Interceptors Fgs roll/ AAA roll = odds casualties

11/366/6 = 66/216 1 StB killed by Fg
25/361/6 = 25/216 1 StB killed by AAA
25/36*5/6 = 125/216 No casualty at all.

Results:
Bombard on IC 125/216* ((1+2)+(6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = + 3.183 IPCs *3.5= 2.025 *6.5=+3.762
StB killed 91/216 *- 5 IPCs = - 2.106 IPCs

D6: + 2.025 - 2.106 = -0.081 IPCs
D6+2: + 3.183 - 2.106 = +1.077 IPC damage/SBR

1 Fighter Att 1 and 1 Strategic Bomber Att 0 doing SBR against 2 interceptors Def 1

Fighter roll/interceptors Fgs roll/ AAA roll = odds casualties

1/61/366/6 = 6/1296 1 Fg and 1 StB killed by Fgs vs 1 Fg
1/610/361/6= 10/1296 1 Fg killed by Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg
1/610/365/6= 50/1296 1 Fg killed by Fg vs 1 Fg
1/625/361/6 = 25/1296 1 StB killed by AAA
1/625/365/6 = 125/1296 No casualty vs 1 Fg

5/620/366/6 = 600/1296 1 Fg and 1 StB killed by Fg vs no casualty
5/616/361/6 = 80/1296 1 Fg killed by Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA vs no casualty
5/616/365/6 = 400/1296 no casualty at all

Results:
Bombard on IC: 1050/1296 * ((1+2)+(6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = + 4.456 IPCs 3.5= +2.836 6.5=+5.266
Killing 1 Fg: 216/1296 +10 IPCs = + 1.667 IPCs
Fg killed: 300/1296-10 IPCs = - 2.315 IPCs
StB killed: 150/1296 -5 IPCs = - 0.579IPCs
StB & Fg killed: 96/1296 -15 IPCs = - 1.111 IPCs

D6: +4.503 - 1.690 = +2.813 IPCs
D6+2: + 6.123 - 1.690 = + 4.433 IPC damage/SBR

1 Fighter Att 1 and 1 Strategic Bomber Att 0 doing SBR against 1 interceptor Def 1
Fighter escort taking the casualty.
Fighter roll/interceptor Fg roll/ AAA roll = odds casualties

1/61/61/6= 1/216 1 Fg killed by Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg
1/61/65/6= 5/216 1 Fg killed by Fg vs 1 Fg
1/65/61/6 = 5/216 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg
1/65/65/6 = 25/216 No casualty vs 1 Fg

5/61/61/6 = 5/216 1 Fg killed by Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA vs no casualty
5/61/65/6 = 25/216 1 Fg killed by Fg vs no casualty
5/65/61/6 = 25/216 1 StB killed by AAA vs no casualty
5/65/65/6 = 125/216 no casualty at all

Results:
Bombard on IC: 180/216 * ((1+2)+(6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = + 4.583 IPCs 3.5= +0.833 6.5=+5.417
Killing 1 Fg: 36/216 +10 IPCs = + 1.667 IPCs
Fg killed:30/216-10 IPCs = - 1.389 IPCs
StB killed: 30/216 -5 IPCs = - 0.694 IPCs
StB & Fg killed: 6/216 -15 IPCs = - 0.417 IPC

D6: +2.500 - 1.111 = +1.389 IPCs
D6+2: + 6.250 - 1.111 = + 5.139 IPC damage/SBR

2 Strategic Bombers Att 0 doing SBR against 2 interceptors Def 1

Interceptor Fgs roll/ AAA roll = odds casualties

1/3636/36= 36/1296 2 StBs killed by Fgs
10/366/36 = 60/1296 1 StB killed by Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA
10/6*30/36= 300/1296 1 StB killed by Fg

25/361/36 = 25/1296 2 StBs killed by AAA
25/3610/36 = 250/1296 1 StB killed by AAA
25/36*25/36 = 625/1296 No casualty at all.

Results:
2x Bombard on IC 625/1296* ((2+4)+(12+4) IPCs)/2= +11 IPCs) = +5.305 IPCs *7=+3.378 13=+6.269
1x Bombard on IC 550/1296 ((1+2)+(6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = + 2.334 IPCs 3.5=+1.485 6.5=+2.758
2 StBs killed 121/1296 -10 IPCs = - 0.934 IPCs
1 StB killed 550/1296 -5 IPCs = - 2.122 IPCs

D6: +4.863 - 3.056 = +1.807 IPCs
D6+2: + 7.639 - 3.056 = + 4.583 IPCs damage/SBR

2 Strategic Bombers Att 0 doing SBR against 1 interceptor Def 1

Interceptor Fg roll/ AAA roll = odds casualties

1/66/36 = 6/216 1 StB killed by Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA
1/630/36= 30/216 1 StB killed by Fg
5/61/36 = 5/216 2 StBs killed by AAA
5/610/36 = 50/216 1 StB killed by AAA
5/6*25/36 = 125/216 No casualty at all.

Results:
2x Bombard on IC 125/216* ((2+4)+(12+4) IPCs)/2= +11 IPCs) = +6.366 IPCs *7=+4.051 13=+7.523
1x Bombard on IC 80/216 ((1+2)+(6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = + 2.037 IPCs 3.5=+1.296 6.5=+2.407
2 StBs killed 11/216 -10 IPCs = - 0.509 IPC
1 StB killed 80/216 -5 IPCs = - 1.852 IPCs

D6: + 5.347 - 2.361= + 2.986 IPCs
D6+2: + 8.403 - 2.361 = + 6.042 IPCs damage/SBR
B

A simplified dogfight and SBR House Rule for 1942 2nd Edition

House Rules
• • • baron Münchhausen

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B

Another way to play a 1942.2 game with some elements which can simulate air-to-air combat between Fighters or against Bombers are as follow.
This House Rule keep the same principles as the opening post system:

Fighters are having dogfight against other Fighters and Bombers and not just hitting grounds targets (as casualties chosen by owner’s) acting like a shield.

That Strategic Bombers are weak and vulnerable against Fighters in air-to-air combat.

But Strategic Bombers have a heavy payload of bombs against ground targets.

There is no special phase in this HR and the dogfight in SBR is consistent with the air-to-air combat value of Fighter and Bomber units.
However, it implies a few changes on combat values and cost of these units:

FIGHTER
Attack 2
Defense 2
Move 4
Cost 7
Always hit enemy’s aircrafts first, if any available.
A Destroyer must be present to hit submarine.

Strategic Bombing Raid Escort and Interception
Attack 2
Defense 2

STRATEGIC BOMBER
Attack 4
Defense 1
Move 6
Cost 12 (Optional: reduced to 10 IPCs)
A Destroyer must be present to hit submarine.
Can make a Strategic Bombing Raid against Industrial Complex.
OPTIONAL: Every time on attack a “1” is rolled, then an enemy’s plane (either Fighter or Bomber) must be taken as casualty.

**Strategic Bombing Raid Escort and Interception
Attack 1

Damage on IC: 1D6+2**

1942.2 FLEET CARRIER
Attack 0
Defense 3
Move 2
Cost 14
Hit: 2 hits
Carry 3 planes (Fighters)
Damaged Carrier can still carry 1 plane.
Carriers are repaired at the beginning of the Power’s turn (Purchase and repair damage phase),
unlike Battleship which are repaired at the end the player’s turn (Placement phase).

ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move NCM1
Cost 4
1 hit
Up to 3 preemptive defense @1 against up to 3 planes, whichever the lesser,(as OOB AAA) and
fire regular defense @1 against up to 1 plane on the following combat rounds.
Stop any blitz, but cannot defend itself against enemy’s ground units.

Additional units are added:

For every 2 Fighter units, you can add on the board 1 new Fighter unit.
USSR gets 1 additional Fighter unit. (1 Fg is put in Russia.)
UK gets 2 additional Fighter units. (1 Fg is put on Carrier, 1 Fighter is put in UK.)
USA gets 3 additional Fighter units. (1 Fg is put on Carrier, 1 Fg is put in Western USA and 1 is put in Eastern USA.)
Optional: You can add an AAA in China instead of a Fighter in Eastern USA.

Germany gets 3 additional Fighter units. (1 Fg is put in Northwestern Europe, 1 Fg is put in Germany, 1 Fg is put in Poland.)
Japan gets 3 additional Fighter units. (2 Fgs are put on each Carriers, and 1 Fg is put in Manchuria.)
F

Simple Victory City System

House Rules
• • • Flashman

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C

These VCs could actually be very good for fixing some one problem of the game. “Capture the capitals” is always a terrible victory condition, and because of the slow warfare in this game, the CPs basically have to get an economic advantage to stand a chance (which is virtually impossible). I don’t agree with the non-capitals having production capacity, but I could be convinced if it led to better balance. However, I would change it to 12 VCs after round 4, with one of them having to be an enemy capital, and shared or revolted Russian VCs counting as half a point for both sides. (Perhaps only for the CPs if Russia intentionally revolting itself becomes a problem) Contested VCs are still nothing for either side.
S

City bonus

House Rules
• • • shintokamikaze

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S

Infantry always defend on two on all rounds of combat, did you mean 3?

yeh,sorry typo
Z

Restricted unit production/placement and enhanced SBR

House Rules
• • • Zero

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G

SBR Rules are intersting…
T

SBR's can destroy ICs

House Rules
• • • Tinker

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X

I agree the simple version is better. I’ll try to talk my buds into trying it.

Yup, HBMRs outa Russia (RUS) is one of my favorite moves. The problem is that you need to leave 1 INF there and maybe 1 ARM to cover it.

The possiblity of BMRs in RUS is why I build an IC for Japan in KWA if I do at all(about 1/3 of the time.)

A funny story: The first guy who tried that on me had moved 2 UK BMRs and 1 US BMR to Russia without protection by the end of UK2. On G2 I flew 1 BMR and 2 FTR to Russia, lost 1 FTR on the way in, and destroyed his BMR wings!!! Glory! Glory! Glory!

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