What’s the consensus on Japan DOW on Russia late in the game for Germany to pick up next turn when it seizes Moscow?
They can’t. The NO is awarded at the beginning of the next turn. Japan attacks russia, allies play, italy plays, germany goes, and only THEN does Russia have an oppotunity to collect the 12.
DUH!!!
@Idi:
What’s the consensus on Japan DOW on Russia late in the game for Germany to pick up next turn when it seizes Moscow?
They can’t. The NO is awarded at the beginning of the next turn. Japan attacks russia, allies play, italy plays, germany goes, and only THEN does Russia have an oppotunity to collect the 12.
DUH!!!
Yup, written exactly that way to prevent that specific exploit. Those sneaky Krauts.
What’s the consensus on Japan DOW on Russia late in the game for Germany to pick up next turn when it seizes Moscow?
They can’t. The NO is awarded at the beginning of the next turn. Japan attacks russia, allies play, italy plays, germany goes, and only THEN does Russia have an oppotunity to collect the 12.
So in other words, Japan has to declare war on Russia 2 turns before Germany captures Moscow to collect the money.
Japan attacks Russia, Germany moves next to Moscow, Russia collects the bonus 12, Japan does something else, then Germany takes Russia and collects the enhanced income Russia has collected.
If Japan waits the whole game to declare war…since Germany does not capture Moscow in the early rounds…then it probably doesn’t matter that much to worry about it. If you are that worried about it, they could change the rule to permit 12 ipcs worth of units to be placed.
To answer the topic of this thread: I do not think the aggressor should pay money. (Reparations are paid by losers after the war) Why? Because I like that the defender gets rewarded as it is currently written.
I would never count on having this money. Honestly, there is a serious problem if Russia cannot spend that 12 IPC on something. Seriously, even if I maxed out my builds somehow and had cash left, I would buy technology rolls, specifically to prevent Germany from getting this money in the first place.
Japan Declares WAR on RUSSIA
Germany Goes.
Russia AT THE START OF THEIR TURN gets an exta 12 IPC’s to spend, and spends it.
It is IMPOSSIBLE for the Axis to capture that 12 IPC’s.
Japan Declares WAR on RUSSIA
Germany Goes.
Russia AT THE START OF THEIR TURN gets an exta 12 IPC’s to spend, and spends it.
It is IMPOSSIBLE for the Axis to capture that 12 IPC’s.
This is interesting. We have been playing that the Japanese hand over the cash as soon as they declare war and before any units are moved.
With most people you would be fine doing that. With a few people, you would literally have to stick with the rule and this is a prime example of why these people require the letter of the law, so to speak.
Although, I would agree that:
Number of games = n
As n increases towards infinity
The limit on the number of games that Germany is in position to take Moscow just before Japan declares war on Russia, and Russia or Japan have not yet declared war is zero.
I could be wrong, we do not, yet, have enough data to support my statement, but I leave it to you to disprove my hypothesis.
When the Soviet Union becomes at war with Japan–-Collect 12 IPCs, once, at the beginning of the turn (not round) following a declaration of war by Japan on the Soviet Union.
Right, at the beginning of Russia’s next turn, after the declaration of war by Japan. Not the game round (defined as Germany, Russia, Japan, China, America, England 1, England 2, ANZAC, Italy, France = 1 Round.)
@Cmdr:
Right, at the beginning of Russia’s next turn, after the declaration of war by Japan. Not the game round (defined as Germany, Russia, Japan, China, America, England 1, England 2, ANZAC, Italy, France = 1 Round.)
I have interpreted this as the start of Japans turn. Japan declares war then hand over the cash. Still think this would create a more binding pact if it was 24 IPCs. 12 from the aggressor and 12 from the bank. We will use this as our house rule when we start the first game using Tigermans map.
That is not how the word “turn” from the rule books of past games have been interpreted as. It has, to my knowledge, always been considered a game turn, not a round turn.
England loads a transport on their NCM turn. America moves their transport on their turn. England unloads the transport on their next turn. The word “turn” is used thrice to denote which country is moving units.
Take a look in the rule books, it is easiest to see around the use of foreign national’s transports with your units because you have to wait for your ally to take a turn before you can move your stuff off.
Also, if you look around the table, you see that if everyone has taken a turn, then you have gone a round of the table back to the first person’s turn.
@Cmdr:
Right, at the beginning of Russia’s next turn, after the declaration of war by Japan. Not the game round (defined as Germany, Russia, Japan, China, America, England 1, England 2, ANZAC, Italy, France = 1 Round.)
I have interpreted this as the start of Japans turn. Japan declares war then hand over the cash. Still think this would create a more binding pact if it was 24 IPCs. 12 from the aggressor and 12 from the bank. We will use this as our house rule when we start the first game using Tigermans map.
It wouldn’t be start of Japan’s turn anyway, as Japan’s turn has started as the earliest it can declare war is at the beginning of the combat move phase after purchasing. If it was supposed to mean the next subsequent turn by any player (it’s not) then it would mean the bank paying Russia at the beginning of the China’s turn (again, it’s not).
The rule was specifically worded as it is to make sure Japan CANNOT declare war only to have Germany get the bonus. The original wording in alpha permitted this, and it was quickly revised when people pointed out this exploit.
Japan Declares WAR on RUSSIA
Germany Goes.
Russia AT THE START OF THEIR TURN gets an exta 12 IPC’s to spend, and spends it.
It is IMPOSSIBLE for the Axis to capture that 12 IPC’s.
Are you paying attention Sgt. Slitz?
@Cmdr:
With most people you would be fine doing that. With a few people, you would literally have to stick with the rule and this is a prime example of why these people require the letter of the law, so to speak.
Although, I would agree that:
Number of games = n
As n increases towards infinity
The limit on the number of games that Germany is in position to take Moscow just before Japan declares war on Russia, and Russia or Japan have not yet declared war is zero.I could be wrong, we do not, yet, have enough data to support my statement, but I leave it to you to disprove my hypothesis.
You are right
