(A bit of a double post, but since there’s two threads about this topic I thought I’d post it in both threads)
UK counter, version 1
UK1 builds: 2x Tactical Bomber
UK1 attacks: none concerning operation Sealion
UK1 moves: tactical bomber from carrier to the UK, Gibralter fleet remains stationary
UK1 placements: 2x tactical bomber in the UK
UK2 attacks: Gibraltar fleet + UK air-force attack SZ112
The battle!
UK: carrier + destroyer + 3x fighter + 3x tactical bomber
Versus
Germany: submarine + carrier + cruiser + tactical bomber + fighter + battleship
Round 1: UK scores 23 pips = 4 hits v. Germany scores 17 pips = 3 hits
Losses: UK carrier + destroyer v. German submarine + cruiser + 2 damaged capital ships
Round 2: UK scores 21 pips = 3 hits v. Germany scores 13 pips = 2 hits
Losses: UK fighter + tactical bomber v. German carrier + fighter + tactical bomber
Round 3: UK scores 14 pips = 2 hits v. Germany scores 4 pips = 1 hit
Losses: UK tactical bomber v. German battleship … all transports are sunk as well
Alternatively Germany can pull back the fleet to SZ113, but that allows the UK to place an easy block to delay Sealion for at least one extra turn … opening the way for more possible UK and/or US intervention and unchecked Soviet aggression in the East.
Germany can also move the cruiser to block in SZ 104 to keep the Gibraltar fleet out of it. The UK air-force can still attack the German fleet and will still win, but with more losses as well.
:evil:
the game is not broken with Sealion. Larry himself said that he built it into the game–you guys are chasing a ghost. There is absolutely zero assurance that taking over the UK gives the Axis an auto-win. Go ahead and build eleven transports for two turns and watch Stalin smile. Puny Italy has no chance agains the US in Africa. There is still enough material in Africa to check the dagos before the US butts in. Russia will become the historical colossus. This is all just “mental masturbation”–who Can-Try-To-Find-A-Flaw and run apeshit with it.
Latro, my first thought was to have UK buy air units UK1 too (have done it). You can also have UK build a sub w/two tacs UK1 (28 ipc’s). Germany can’t kill the sub, and it will increase your odds in the sz 112 sea battle if Germany stays. I think Germany may just drop in another carrier G2 though, so could still stay in SZ112, but would buy fewer tpt’s. Then you have to decided to roll the dice in the sea battle, or do inf buy UK2 and let him storm the beaches G3 w/fewer ground units.
Good post none the less :-D
If the AA gun does not kill a plane on a G2 sealion and if you also block with cruiser in SZ 104 and you will all the battles, the UK player can only get 11 Infantry and 4 planes defense. ( builds 9 men, has 2 at start, plus 3 fighters 1 tactical)
The odds of this battle if the above all occur to win for Germany is over 50%.
If AA gun hits, it goes down to about 42%
bump
the game is not broken with Sealion. Larry himself said that he built it into the game–you guys are chasing a ghost. There is absolutely zero assurance that taking over the UK gives the Axis an auto-win. Go ahead and build eleven transports for two turns and watch Stalin smile. Puny Italy has no chance agains the US in Africa. There is still enough material in Africa to check the dagos before the US butts in. Russia will become the historical colossus. This is all just “mental masturbation”–who Can-Try-To-Find-A-Flaw and run apeshit with it.
to be fair there IS a precedent in this franchise of there being such a flaw…. :)
the game is not broken with Sealion. Larry himself said that he built it into the game–you guys are chasing a ghost. There is absolutely zero assurance that taking over the UK gives the Axis an auto-win. Go ahead and build eleven transports for two turns and watch Stalin smile. Puny Italy has no chance agains the US in Africa. There is still enough material in Africa to check the dagos before the US butts in. Russia will become the historical colossus. This is all just “mental masturbation”–who Can-Try-To-Find-A-Flaw and run apeshit with it.
to be fair there IS a precedent in this franchise of there being such a flaw…. :)
There is also a precedent for there not being such a flaw(1942, original Pacific)
to be fair there IS a precedent in this franchise of there being such a flaw…. Smiley
That would be AAE original and AAP40?
… and AA Pacific, and Bulge.
… and AA Pacific, and Bulge.
Bulge was broken? I had the impression that it was balanced, assuming you were extremely smart with the allies
I thought D-Day tended to have pretty predictable outcomes.
I liked D-Day the best.
I found that if I advanced along a broad front in Bulge, I only needed to get to the middle of the board and I had my 24 points before the allies started using their planes.
Maybe I didn’t give the game enough of a chance.
Original – huge allied advantage
Europe – german advantage
Pacific – Japanese (I have heard)
Revised - allied advantage
d-day – huge german advantage even with larry’s post release “fixes”
bulge – I have not played it
Guadalcanal – balanced. This game is awesome, I am surprised more people do not play it and discuss it
50th Anniversary – 4 scenarios (1941, 1942, with or without national objectives) all unbalanced
Spring 42 – balanced. This is a great update of revised.
Pac40 – japan has huge advantage
Euro40 – I have not played it
Global40 – I have only played it a few times but it seems to favour the allies. Despite germany being able to threaten early sealion, which forcing uk into same reaction everygame (boring) it seems the allies still have a huge advantage. Granted this is from a small sample of games.
Ahh, I forgot I was referring to the AAP revised setup(sort of like the upcoming revised setup to P40). However, can you list how unbalanced each game is(i.e. what bid is needed to balance the game).
I know when AA Europe was being played back on Don’s Axis & Allies forum (whatever happened to that site?) the bid was over $30 and rising. I remember Hartman was at the top of the ladder and was still beating members as Germany even w/ $30 +.
Pacific over at Days of Infamy was bid w/ Victory points, not money. They were bidding b/n 26 and 27 VPs, if I remember right.
Seriously? Even 10 inf in Belarus didn’t help?
I wasn’t playing online at the time, but I do remember the bids being rediculoulsy high - and this Hartman guy and M&M cleaning up w/ the Germans.
M&M? Who’s that?
Was he winning because he was a much better player or because the game is THAT unbalanced?
On that forum, the way that a ladder worked, you either gained points for winning a game, or lost points. How many points you won or lost depended on the spread b/n the 2 players. If 1 player had alot of points played a newbie with no points, the higher player had lots at stake as he could lose the difference in points to the newbie. The higher players tended to play higher players. Newbies had to work theri way up to challenge the higher guys.
Hartman and M&M were in the 1 - 2 spots for a long time until the forum closed down, I think.
Days of Infamy worked the same way.
Okay, can someone list the 4 anniversary scenarios and approximate bigs needed(and which side needs it)?
