@13thguardsriflediv:
Britain buys a few new ships and decides to attack the western Italian fleet with a fighter, tac bomber, destroyer and cruiser. The carrier joins the French units to pick up the surviving planes as the Italian fleet goes down without much of a bang.
This is a REALLY good idea. All these British units involved cannot be attacked (or virtually cannot be) before they make this move and of course the Italians don’t have a turn before this occurs. This practically wipes out the Italian fleet without any effort or risk on UK’s part and when you consolidate the carrier and the planes with the French Med fleet Italy cannot effectively counter-attack this force nor rebuild its lost naval units. Not to mention Italy will more than likely not be getting any bonus income now because they more than likely cannot take Egypt with their Tobruk and Ethiopian forces.
This almost seems like a broken attack of opportunity. By wiping out those Italian naval units without a second thought as to the risk behind the attack it seems to knock Italy out of the game before they even get their first turn. Even if Italy throws everything it has left after that at the remaining British and French units it will more than likely lose everything and leave the UK with a carrier with one or two planes left on it. The end result is Italy with no naval or air units left and the British still having a presence in the Mediterranean. This means Italy has lost the game already! They will have no more than the income they can pick up from southern france and the balkan states and no way of getting to Africa.
If I’m playing as the UK I will do this move first turn every single game and there is no reason to use those units any other way. This seems incredibly broken to me.
@13thguardsriflediv:
Britain buys a few new ships and decides to attack the western Italian fleet with a fighter, tac bomber, destroyer and cruiser. The carrier joins the French units to pick up the surviving planes as the Italian fleet goes down without much of a bang.
This is a REALLY good idea. All these British units involved cannot be attacked (or virtually cannot be) before they make this move and of course the Italians don’t have a turn before this occurs. This practically wipes out the Italian fleet without any effort or risk on UK’s part and when you consolidate the carrier and the planes with the French Med fleet Italy cannot effectively counter-attack this force nor rebuild its lost naval units. Not to mention Italy will more than likely not be getting any bonus income now because they more than likely cannot take Egypt with their Tobruk and Ethiopian forces.
This almost seems like a broken attack of opportunity. By wiping out those Italian naval units without a second thought as to the risk behind the attack it seems to knock Italy out of the game before they even get their first turn. Even if Italy throws everything it has left after that at the remaining British and French units it will more than likely lose everything and leave the UK with a carrier with one or two planes left on it. The end result is Italy with no naval or air units left and the British still having a presence in the Mediterranean. This means Italy has lost the game already! They will have no more than the income they can pick up from southern france and the balkan states and no way of getting to Africa.
If I’m playing as the UK I will do this move first turn every single game and there is no reason to use those units any other way. This seems incredibly broken to me.
The Italians in Tobruk are stronger than the Commonwealth forces in Alexandria and Egypt.
The Italians in Tobruk are stronger than the Commonwealth forces in Alexandria and Egypt.
Not if the Indian fighters shuttle over from the Pacific and the Brits fall back from Alexandria into Egypt. By Italy’s second turn they’re confronted with 4 (counting the aussie) inf 2 art 1 tank 4 fighters and 1 tac bomber in Egypt. This is a borderline impossible fight for the Italians as it is, not even taking into account the fact that by all rights their navy should be sitting at the bottom of the Med. Italy simply doesn’t have the strength to accomplish much of anything if the Allies expend even minimal effort to contain it.
The Italians in Tobruk are stronger than the Commonwealth forces in Alexandria and Egypt.
Not if the Indian fighters shuttle over from the Pacific and the Brits fall back from Alexandria into Egypt. By Italy’s second turn they’re confronted with 4 (counting the aussie) inf 2 art 1 tank 4 fighters and 1 tac bomber in Egypt. This is a borderline impossible fight for the Italians as it is, not even taking into account the fact that by all rights their navy should be sitting at the bottom of the Med. Italy simply doesn’t have the strength to accomplish much of anything if the Allies expend even minimal effort to contain it.
If you do that, japan will rule the Pacific
The Italians in Tobruk are stronger than the Commonwealth forces in Alexandria and Egypt.
Not if the Indian fighters shuttle over from the Pacific and the Brits fall back from Alexandria into Egypt. By Italy’s second turn they’re confronted with 4 (counting the aussie) inf 2 art 1 tank 4 fighters and 1 tac bomber in Egypt. This is a borderline impossible fight for the Italians as it is, not even taking into account the fact that by all rights their navy should be sitting at the bottom of the Med. Italy simply doesn’t have the strength to accomplish much of anything if the Allies expend even minimal effort to contain it.
If you do that, japan will rule the Pacific
Touche, but an Indian crush seems all but inevitable regardless of whether or not you have those fighters still in the Pacific. I guess it’s a question of priorities for the Allied player. Snipe a few extra jap inf screening the Invincible Japanese Air-Force or use them to lock down 50% of the IPC’s of the half of Britain that can actually accomplish something.
The Italians in Tobruk are stronger than the Commonwealth forces in Alexandria and Egypt.
Not if the Indian fighters shuttle over from the Pacific and the Brits fall back from Alexandria into Egypt. By Italy’s second turn they’re confronted with 4 (counting the aussie) inf 2 art 1 tank 4 fighters and 1 tac bomber in Egypt. This is a borderline impossible fight for the Italians as it is, not even taking into account the fact that by all rights their navy should be sitting at the bottom of the Med. Italy simply doesn’t have the strength to accomplish much of anything if the Allies expend even minimal effort to contain it.
If you do that, japan will rule the Pacific
Touche, but an Indian crush seems all but inevitable regardless of whether or not you have those fighters still in the Pacific. I guess it’s a question of priorities for the Allied player. Snipe a few extra jap inf screening the Invincible Japanese Air-Force or use them to lock down 50% of the IPC’s of the half of Britain that can actually accomplish something.
True, but keep in mind that an ignore Japan strat isn’t feasible anymore(thank rationality)
I agree, but I also think their are far more efficient ways for the Allies to slow the japs down ( chinese inf stack supported by a russian AA gun, australia banking its points for a few turns and then unleashing waves of subs into the pacific, backing up those 18 russian inf w/ a couple extra 3’s and 4’s etc etc). Anywho, don’t wanna hijack this guy’s thread anymore :)
I agree, but I also think their are far more efficient ways for the Allies to slow the japs down ( chinese inf stack supported by a russian AA gun, australia banking its points for a few turns and then unleashing waves of subs into the pacific, backing up those 18 russian inf w/ a couple extra 3’s and 4’s etc etc). Anywho, don’t wanna hijack this guy’s thread anymore :)
Tanks and planes to siberia? Tanks take 4 turns to get there and planes take 2. Then, when your air and armor are in the East, Germany will invade
An extra plane or two is all you really need. The Russians don’t really have to worry much about concerning the Germans as the Russian player can easily purchase 10 inf in Moscow every turn along with a toy or two (assuming of course the Russian player declares war on Japan R1 and picks up those extra 5 IPC’s, a move I have yet to see any downside to) thus stalling the Germans about 2-3 provinces into Russia tops as their line of reinforcement stretches. This also draws the bulk of the German army out of Europe making it even easier for the US and Brits to make a combined landing in force. The main problem I see with this game so far is the European Axis’s complete lack of ability to press an offensive into Russia with any hope of success. Their forces are either forced to retreat or die assaulting 70 or so russian inf supported by a handful of 3’s and 4’s.
An extra plane or two is all you really need. The Russians don’t really have to worry much about concerning the Germans as the Russian player can easily purchase 10 inf in Moscow every turn along with a toy or two (assuming of course the Russian player declares war on Japan R1 and picks up those extra 5 IPC’s, a move I have yet to see any downside to) thus stalling the Germans about 2-3 provinces into Russia tops as their line of reinforcement stretches. This also draws the bulk of the German army out of Europe making it even easier for the US and Brits to make a combined landing in force. The main problem I see with this game so far is the European Axis’s complete lack of ability to press an offensive into Russia with any hope of success. Their forces are either forced to retreat or die assaulting 70 or so russian inf supported by a handful of 3’s and 4’s.
What 5 ipcs? I think Russia has to be at war with Germany or Italy for that to apply
Nope, a DOW on Japan activates the Russian 5 IPC bonus.
5 IPC’s if the Soviet Union is at war, the convoy in sea zone 125 is free of Axis warships, Archangel is controlled by the Soviet Union, and there are no Allied units in Russia.
If they meant for that rule to apply to only European Axis, they left it out of the rulebook. I’m hoping its a misprint, because otherwise its kinda a no-brainer.
Nope, a DOW on Japan activates the Russian 5 IPC bonus.
5 IPC’s if the Soviet Union is at war, the convoy in sea zone 125 is free of Axis warships, Archangel is controlled by the Soviet Union, and there are no Allied units in Russia.
If they meant for that rule to apply to only European Axis, they left it out of the rulebook. I’m hoping its a misprint, because otherwise its kinda a no-brainer.
Well, I’m sure Z125 should be Z127, so it’s no surprise if this is a misprint. I asked krieg about this
Hey, I’m down for anything that makes the European theater more compelling so I hope you’re right. You sure about it being sea zone 127 though? There’s no convoy symbol in that sea zone, while there is one in 125.
Hey, I’m down for anything that makes the European theater more compelling so I hope you’re right. You sure about it being sea zone 127 though? There’s no convoy symbol in that sea zone, while there is one in 125.
Well, why would Russia lose an NO for ships on Norway? If it is Z127, the -5 ipcs to Russia acts as a convoy.
@13thguardsriflediv:
Britain buys a few new ships and decides to attack the western Italian fleet with a fighter, tac bomber, destroyer and cruiser. The carrier joins the French units to pick up the surviving planes as the Italian fleet goes down without much of a bang.
This is a REALLY good idea. All these British units involved cannot be attacked (or virtually cannot be) before they make this move and of course the Italians don’t have a turn before this occurs. This practically wipes out the Italian fleet without any effort or risk on UK’s part and when you consolidate the carrier and the planes with the French Med fleet Italy cannot effectively counter-attack this force nor rebuild its lost naval units. Not to mention Italy will more than likely not be getting any bonus income now because they more than likely cannot take Egypt with their Tobruk and Ethiopian forces.
This almost seems like a broken attack of opportunity. By wiping out those Italian naval units without a second thought as to the risk behind the attack it seems to knock Italy out of the game before they even get their first turn. Even if Italy throws everything it has left after that at the remaining British and French units it will more than likely lose everything and leave the UK with a carrier with one or two planes left on it. The end result is Italy with no naval or air units left and the British still having a presence in the Mediterranean. This means Italy has lost the game already! They will have no more than the income they can pick up from southern france and the balkan states and no way of getting to Africa.
If I’m playing as the UK I will do this move first turn every single game and there is no reason to use those units any other way. This seems incredibly broken to me.
Aye, the Taranto raid really is broken for the UK, as there’s absolutely no reason NOT to do it, since the Germans can’t reach SZ 91 on G1 and Italy’s turn goes after the UK. It actually seems the best move since moving the CV, DD, and TAC up to help defend England will just get them killed by the German U-boats and Luftwaffe. Italy doesn’t have enough naval units to respond, which I find is crap, since they had a fairly large navy for just the Med, and also quite a few submarines (where are Italy’s 116 starting submarines? Germany had about 250 throughout the war and starts in AAE40 with FIVE)!
Hey, I’m down for anything that makes the European theater more compelling so I hope you’re right. You sure about it being sea zone 127 though? There’s no convoy symbol in that sea zone, while there is one in 125.
Well, why would Russia lose an NO for ships on Norway? If it is Z127, the -5 ipcs to Russia acts as a convoy.
The Allies did send Lend-Lease material to the Soviets in convoys through that area west of Norway, and the Germans historically launched several (unsucessful) raids against those convoys.
Hey, I’m down for anything that makes the European theater more compelling so I hope you’re right. You sure about it being sea zone 127 though? There’s no convoy symbol in that sea zone, while there is one in 125.
Well, why would Russia lose an NO for ships on Norway? If it is Z127, the -5 ipcs to Russia acts as a convoy.
The Allies did send Lend-Lease material to the Soviets in convoys through that area west of Norway, and the Germans historically launched several (unsucessful) raids against those convoys.
All of them have to land in Z127, so…
Not to mention there’s no point using the word convoy in the description of the NO if it involves a convoy-less sea zone.
Murmansk Convoy runs were intercepted around Norway.
Hey, I’m down for anything that makes the European theater more compelling so I hope you’re right. You sure about it being sea zone 127 though? There’s no convoy symbol in that sea zone, while there is one in 125.
Well, why would Russia lose an NO for ships on Norway? If it is Z127, the -5 ipcs to Russia acts as a convoy.
The Allies did send Lend-Lease material to the Soviets in convoys through that area west of Norway, and the Germans historically launched several (unsucessful) raids against those convoys.
All of them have to land in Z127, so…
It’s 125, not 127. It makes it actually plausible for Germany to intercept midocean. It’s far too easy for Russia to keep 127 completely free as it’s isolated.
