Axis too strong?

[maulerXX]

Does anyone else feel the Axis are too strong using the 1942 map and rules, or is it just me?

In the original game the Allies were clearly too strong, and in Revised seemed kind of equal, but in 1942 if the Axis go all out against Russia and ignore the US and Britain completely, it seems like they can take Moscow by the 3rd round almost every time and the 4th round at the latest.

I’ve actually repeatedly taken Moscow on G2 on gambits where I could get around 60% odds for Germany and then had the dice fall my way.

On older maps the Russians could totally block off the German advance with infantry, but on the the 1942 map there are just too many ways for German tanks to reach Moscow.

[moralecheck]

@maulerXX:

Does anyone else feel the Axis are too strong using the 1942 map and rules, or is it just me?

In the original game the Allies were clearly too strong, and in Revised seemed kind of equal, but in 1942 if the Axis go all out against Russia and ignore the US and Britain completely, it seems like they can take Moscow by the 3rd round almost every time and the 4th round at the latest.

I’ve actually repeatedly taken Moscow on G2 on gambits where I could get around 60% odds for Germany and then had the dice fall my way.

On older maps the Russians could totally block off the German advance with infantry, but on the the 1942 map there are just too many ways for German tanks to reach Moscow.

Actually, the stack attack plan on the original map put Germany in Moscow on turn 3 pretty much every time.  In the lighter global games (AAC, AAR, AA42) the Russians are fairly dependant on western fighter support.

[Keredrex]

Actually, I feel this game is more balanced than any previous version.  as the allies, its their job to not allow germany to ignore them.  If germany is spending money on tank stacks then the US and UK should be sending fighters, and land units to aid russia.  Russia should be buying a mix of Inf., Artillery and tanks to have decent offenses to push germany back, and they have to do it before japan eats them up from the other side.

Maybe your playing this game with the same strategies as Revised or older versions.  You can’t, its had major changes that affect overall strategy.  the new transport rule, new complex rule, new sub rule, new bombardment rule and the border changes all affect the game vastly.

[maulerXX]

I feel the new rules are actually the main issue because so many of them seem to favor Germany. German subs are much harder to kill with allied planes, US and British transports are much easier to kill with German subs or planes, requiring time and money to be invested in escorts, and the German tank columns now defend at 3, making them much harder to push back, while the Russian infantry stacks are the same as before.

It used to be possible, with luck, to take out the entire German navy in the first round, especially if the three allies all chipped in. But now it takes at least until round two to finish off the German navy, and even this requires luck and a significant diversion of resources and/or leaving transports unguarded.

The US cannot even a token force in Europe until the end of round 2, and the British usually lose one half of their 2-ship transport fleet before they even move, meaning no significant allied ground troops in Europe until round 3 at the earliest. Meanwhile, even if Britain spends its entire income on 3 fighters every turn and sends them to Russia, and the US sends a fighter or a bomber every turn beginning in round 2, a smart German player will keep his forces united in 2 or 3 strong columns, gladly trading a couple infantry or the occasional tank for downed enemy fighter units. Or better yet, if the allied planes do not attack and just wait in Moscow. Either way, barring abnormally bad luck, the Germans will have the Russian defenses cut to ribbons by turn 3, with Japan knocking on Moscow’s back door, and are in strong position to push back against any allied amphibious landings.

[Keredrex]

You may need to rethink your purchases… Ive played many games and it rarely works out the way you described.  Germany has to be weak somewhere if he is making a tank rush to russia.  and the subs are harder to destroy but once you buy destroyers then you should be on the attack with your combined fleets of america and UK… Subs only defend on 1’s.

depending on what happens of course lets look at the buys…
Russia - 4 inf. 3 art. - Figure they take West Russia & Ukraine. then whatever noncombat russia should have an inf. stack on West russia and caucasus with planes

Germany - 5 Tanks 5 inf. - only cause your suggesting Tank Rush to Moscow.  take back Ukraine, and get karelia. … now assume they go for Egypt, and the british fleets in the Mediterranean.  lets say they leave the fleet in the north.

UK. - Destroyer, Sub, Carrier = 28  build it next to norway on SZ 6 and bring your Battleship and transports to offload in norway.  (if germany sinks the battleship transport in SZ2 with sub, fighter, bomber) then UK buys 2 fighters and saves 10 ipc’s.  figure you attack Egypt with the UK Bomber, Indian Navy and troops … move the gun to persia… send fighters from UK to either attack the destroyer and transport in SZ5.

Japan Does whatever ( im thinking KGF at the moment ) assume they wipe out pearl harbor.  maybe attack the UK boats of Egypt and take China.

USA buys a fleet on Eastern USA… brings the destroyer up and brings the battleship from Cali around to Eastern USA for the 2nd Fleet.

[Hobbes]

If you just buy infantry with Russia and let the Germans take control of Karelia/Bielorussia/Ukraine/West Russia without contesting them then the Germans will definitely walk over Russia.

Even with an 8 tank buy for Germany on G1 it is impossible to take Russia on G3 if the Russians know what they are doing.

[Hobbes]

@Keredrex:

UK. - Destroyer, Sub, Carrier = 28  build it next to norway on SZ 6 and bring your Battleship and transports to offload in norway.  (if germany sinks the battleship transport in SZ2 with sub, fighter, bomber) then UK buys 2 fighters and saves 10 ipc’s.  figure you attack Egypt with the UK Bomber, Indian Navy and troops … move the gun to persia… send fighters from UK to either attack the destroyer and transport in SZ5.

The UK’s optimal buy is 1 Carrier and 2 DDs. The sub is useless when defending against the German airforce and it only defends at 1 against the submarines.

If G sinks the BB and transport on SZ2 stick to the 1 Carrier and 2 DDs. Unless all of Germany’s subs and planes have survived the G1 attacks and are placed on Western Europe/Norway and the Russian sub has been sunk on the SZ2 attack, the UK can deploy on either SZ8 (and move the Russian sub and US cruiser there) or on SZ2 (and move the sub there) and have good odds of defending against any attack.

[maulerXX]

Just to be clear, in the scenario I am talking about, Germany largely ignores the British navy (at least with planes) and uses the entire Luftwaffe against Russia for the first 3 turns. At best, Russia can take out 1 plane before Germany moves, but that means that Germany is still left with 5 fighters and a bomber to use against Russia every single turn. Russia is not just sitting idle, and is pushing back against Germany, but facing the entire Luftwaffe every turn, there is little Russia can do.

Japan also typically skips Pearl, ignores the British fleet off India, withdraws it’s entire fleet to Japan, buys an IC turn 1 and a destroyer, and uses every single fighter against mainland Asia. Regardless of what the allied player does, Japan typically takes Buryatria, China, and India on J1, but never less than 2 out of 3. The combined fleet is really hard for the US or British to take out as long as Japan keeps fighters on the 2 carriers. By the beginning of J3, Japan has transported at least 10 ground divisions to the mainland, and is churning out 3 tanks per turn on the mainland, so even if the US takes out the Japanese fleet at this point (which is the earliest it can realistically do so, even with an all-out effort), the battle for mainland Asia is already all but over. Not that any of this even matters that much, because as I said, Germany has usually already taken Moscow on G3, or is about to take Moscow.

[Keredrex]

Im about 80% sure i can get an allied win in that senario you just described….  I would LOVE japan to leave pearl harbor alone… USA would go KJF (Kill Japan First) with britain and crush the Japanese and in doing so gain so much money they could send units against germany as well.

OR i would go JGF (Kill Germany First) Since you said Germany ignores the british fleet.  that means UK probably has the cruiser in the mediterranean & the battleship in the north… then you should buy asome transports and men and start offloading into western europe… EVEN if germany can just take it next turn.  if you keep germany fighting for there original territories that means they are sending fewer units to russia. USA can also be threatening Western Europe on turn 2… if UK AND USA are parked and offloading a flow of units into western europe Germany can’t ignor you.
@maulerXX:

Japan also typically skips Pearl, ignores the British fleet off India, withdraws it’s entire fleet to Japan, buys an IC turn 1 and a destroyer, and uses every single fighter against mainland Asia. Regardless of what the allied player does, Japan typically takes Buryatria, China, and India on J1, but never less than 2 out of 3. The combined fleet is really hard for the US or British to take out as long as Japan keeps fighters on the 2 carriers.

buy a complex for USA in sinkiang… send a couple of russians, and UK fighter to protect
just leave the japanese fleet alone and send your fleets after Germany in Egypt (if he doesnt take egypt move into the mediterranean)OR  since you have the british fleet in india, try going after the transport all on its on by kwangtung.

also, just because russia falls the game is not over… especially if the allies can take out 1 of the axis around the same time

a few questions…

1- why are you threatened by the Luftwaffe?.  sure planes are strong units but you make it sound like they ALONE are beating russia.  planes are only as good as the backup they have. also, if planes are your burden… by AA Guns.  also… if the Fighters (which are best defensive unit for a land territory) are off fighting russia (which means they are landing in Eastern german territs.  then they are NOT defending Western europe or GERMANY.  Try going for a massive amp assault against germany… he will pull the fighter back

2- are you extremely unlucky with dice, or are you playing people with Loaded dice?

3- are you entirely clear on all the rules particularly NEW rules for this game?

4- lets play a forum game… ill be the allies, you do what you described as a WIN for the axis.  ill even consider you telling me what to do with russia on turn 1 so your german moves are the same as described

[Hitlers Left Hand Pinky]

I know that I’ve taken out Britain on the first move as Germany. But if the Axis stall for too long the Allies will win. The Axis have to move fast if they want to see victory

[maulerXX]

@Keredrex:

4- lets play a forum game… ill be the allies, you do what you described as a WIN for the axis.  ill even consider you telling me what to do with russia on turn 1 so your german moves are the same as described

I would be glad to play with you by forum. But I’m new here and not sure exactly how it works. I figured out how to roll dice, but is there a way to keep track of an AA42 board (matching it to the dice rolls and results) without owning the actual game?

[Keredrex]

@Hitlers:

I know that I’ve taken out Britain on the first move as Germany. But if the Axis stall for too long the Allies will win. The Axis have to move fast if they want to see victory

true they have to move fast and be aggressive to win,  
How are you able to take Britain out on Germany’s 1st turn.  
Germany can only send… 1 Tank, 1 Inf., 2 Fighters, 1 Bomber
UK has… 2 Inf., 1 Art., 1 Tank, 2 Fighters, 1 Bomber and an AA GUN.  
thats 5 German Units vs. 7 UK, and if they get any hits from the AA Gun you have even less units going in
and UK has at least 1 transport to bring the tank to liberate UK and a shore bombardment on the Highly unlikely chance you conquer UK.  and USA can also get there and liberate UK

Unless your Extremely lucky or playing with loaded dice or an unlucky amateur player, i dont see how that is possible

[Keredrex]

@maulerXX:

@Keredrex:

4- lets play a forum game… ill be the allies, you do what you described as a WIN for the axis.  ill even consider you telling me what to do with russia on turn 1 so your german moves are the same as described

I would be glad to play with you by forum. But I’m new here and not sure exactly how it works. I figured out how to roll dice, but is there a way to keep track of an AA42 board (matching it to the dice rolls and results) without owning the actual game?

maybe… do you happen to have the program illustrator?  or i could send you a mini battle recorder map that you can write the game on.  send me a personal message so we can discuss it.

[nutbar]

When i play, Russia falls on R1 or R2, UK falls also on UK1 or UK2, Hawaii falls on US1 or US2,Anglo-Egypt Sudan falls on G1, India falls on J1 or J2. West Russia and Ukraine have fell on R1 or R2. Karelia, Caucases, and Archangel fall on G1. Buryatia falls on J1 but sometimes but not always Yukut and SFE fall on J1. On J1 or J2, Sinkiang and China fall to the Japanese. I typically play as the allies.
My record is 1 win-many losses-possibly 1 tie.

The allies are too weak and the axis are way too strong. I hope G40 is a balanced game that both sides can win (and I want to win more too because I almost always lose)

[calvinhobbesliker]

@nutbar:

When i play, Russia falls on R1 or R2, UK falls also on UK1 or UK2, Hawaii falls on US1 or US2,Anglo-Egypt Sudan falls on G1, India falls on J1 or J2. West Russia and Ukraine have fell on R1 or R2. Karelia, Caucases, and Archangel fall on G1. Buryatia falls on J1 but sometimes but not always Yukut and SFE fall on J1. On J1 or J2, Sinkiang and China fall to the Japanese. I typically play as the allies.
My record is 1 win-many losses-possibly 1 tie.

The allies are too weak and the axis are way too strong. I hope G40 is a balanced game that both sides can win (and I want to win more too because I almost always lose)

How do both Russia and UK lose their capitals on their own turns?

[Nix]

It doesn´t make sense, you basically can´t lose Both UK and Russia on t1 or 2…

[Butcher]

I don’t understand how Moscow can fall on G4, much less both London and Moscow.  Russia must play aggressively, building a mix of infantry, artillery, and tanks.  If Germany sends straight tanks, the Western Allies can drop the hammer much faster.